Author Topic: Looking for my first muzzle loading rifle (Read 1617 times)

Rayfan87 · « **on:** June 03, 2011, 03:55:39 PM »

Ok, I've decided to start looking for an entry level long rifle kit. Right now I'm looking at either a Traditions Kentucky flintlock kit in .50 or .45 or Pendersoli Pennsylvania flintlock in .50, .45, or .32. Anybody have any experience with either of these and willing to offer advice? I have a little experience with muzzle loaders but they are cannons.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2011, 05:36:42 PM »

You will pay more for the Pedersoli, but the quality is w-a-y better than the Traditions.

I like .45 for its versatility. Small enough for bunnies, but large enough for deer. It doesn't take as much lead or powder per shot, either.

On the other hand, some states require .50 minimum for deer (Oregon & Wyoming come to mind, although my experiences there were in the 1980s and things may have changed). It depends on what you are going to do, and where you are going to do it!

~WH~

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2011, 02:40:42 AM »

Well I'm currently living in Western NY. It's mostly for target shooting right now, possibly hunting later. I volunteer with a BSA troop and may use it for rifle merit badge.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #3 on:** June 05, 2011, 06:09:55 AM »

I'd second the .45 caliber as a versatile target and general plinking gun with some use for deer. If working with small people you'll find the .45 is about as large as you want to go, larger calibers kick more and are harder to load. You also may find the longer barrels are difficult for small people to handle. The Traditions rifles generally seem to be accurate but the locks and triggers are not the best. For that reason alone you may be better off with a percussion. The percussion only needs the hammer to fall hard enough to bust a cap. With flint it is far more complex. A "good flint lock" is every bit as reliable as a percussion but a "cheap flintlock" can be a source of real frustration.

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 06, 2011, 03:08:26 PM »

It looks like the Pendersoli .45 is the winner. I have a feeling it will stay as is for a while and then I'll probably upgrade different parts, set the old ones aside and after a while have two complete rifles.

spooked · « **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:14:10 AM »

My first muzzle loader was a Traditions Deerhunter 50 gal., killed my first muzzleloading deer with it. Have and have had several others (Tc,CVA),Still have the deerhunter. had one in flint dress, lock threw a good spark but I traded it off for a Tc Cherokee .
My latest traditions is a .45 (inline), got it so I can shoot roll me own bullet's instead of sabows, Have Tc maxiball and Lee R.E.A.L. .45 molds for my percussion sidelock anyway. Want more oomph and better ballistics jist don't wanta pay for them high priced sabots.

In my opinion the .45 (With bullets in place of rbs) oughta be legal fer anything a .54 rb is allowed for..

Semisane · « **Reply #6 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:19:18 AM »

Quote

In my opinion the .45 (With bullets in place of rbs) oughta be legal fer anything a .54 rb is allowed for..

Well, you're right about that spooked. But then you'd be asking State wildlife agencies to understand something about muzzle loader ballistics, which they just don't seem to do.

Higene · « **Reply #7 on:** June 07, 2011, 11:29:35 AM »

I seriously recommend The Complete Black Powder Handbook by Sam Fadala. If you are going to be a teacher you really should take advice from a Master.

Hi Gene

lakota · « **Reply #8 on:** June 07, 2011, 01:29:49 PM »

Quote from: Higene on June 07, 2011, 11:29:35 AM

I seriously recommend The Complete Black Powder Handbook by Sam Fadala. If you are going to be a teacher you really should take advice from a Master.

Hi Gene

Yep. Great book, great author. I also have a .22 book and a game prep and cook book he wrote. Very enjoyable reading.

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:17:03 PM »

The merit badge part is a maybe, I've been talking about it for a couple years now. I just think it would be interesting to offer the badge with something other than the standard .22 bolt action. The requirements are set up for air rifle, .22, and muzzle loader. For most .22 is the standard, my brain says "that's the standard, do something else" it would offer the guys an opportunity they may not get somewhere else.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2011, 06:09:13 AM »

Your choice of the Pedersoli, IMO, is the correct one. Its quality is much better than the Traditions.

The only hesitation on my part would be about the caliber. While the caliber for what you plan on using it for is correct (less recoil, less powder and lead used per shot), there is the problem of availability. In my area, it's almost impossible to get .45cal bullets locally. Ordering from the internet/mail order, only increases your cost due to the price for shipping.

I can guarantee, that if you use it for the scout merit badge, it would be a hit. When my kids were in scouting, that was the first merit badge they signed up for when the went to scout camp at 10 Mile River. Just imagine, shooting a muzzle loader, any muzzle loader, let alone a flintlock for your merit badge.

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2011, 11:50:49 AM »

Im not too worried about ammo, there are two places nearby that stock them and I may at some point buy a mould to cast my own. Maybe add that as an "extra part of rifle merit badge" and get some free labor out of the scouts

. The thing that I have to get online is Goex.

keith44 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2011, 09:21:42 PM »

I have two Pedersoli's and one Traditions ML rifle. The Traditions is an old "Hawken" in .54. I've had it for going on 20 years and have taken many deer and coyote with it. They are inexpensive work horses and I can find no fault with it, other than the asthetics. Put side by side with the Pedersoli's it is obviously a budget rifle. That said, however the barrel is a quality piece and is as accurate today as it was when new (some 6,000 rounds ago)

The Pedersoli's are a .54 x .54 Kodiak double, and a .32 cal Penn. flinter. I've owned them for 8 years and 2 years. The double would not make a good first gun, but the quality, fit and finish are second to none. The .32 flinter is great for small game like rabbits, squirrel, ground hogs, coyotes (head shots) and with just 15 grains of powder deliveres the same velocity as a .22 magnum round.

There is nothing the .45, .50, or .54 will do that the others won't. However if you shoot only patched roundballs (like a good muzzle loader hunter will)

The .54 will cleanly take everything that walks on the North AND South American continents period. With round balls the others fall short on power. Now when you include conical bullets any one will work as well as the others.

Have fun, and don't be afraid to own more than one. They don't eat that much

Keith

keith44 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2011, 09:04:01 PM »

Quote from: Rayfan87 on June 03, 2011, 03:55:39 PM

Ok, I've decided to start looking for an entry level long rifle kit. Right now I'm looking at either a Traditions Kentucky flintlock kit in .50 or .45 or Pendersoli Pennsylvania flintlock in .50, .45, or .32. Anybody have any experience with either of these and willing to offer advice? I have a little experience with muzzle loaders but they are cannons.

Any decisions yet?? Just askin' to be nosey. I like to promote muzzleloader use when ever possible.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #14 on:** June 14, 2011, 05:04:15 AM »

Quote from: Rayfan87 on June 09, 2011, 11:50:49 AM

Im not too worried about ammo, there are two places nearby that stock them and I may at some point buy a mould to cast my own. Maybe add that as an "extra part of rifle merit badge" and get some free labor out of the scouts . The thing that I have to get online is Goex.

"Free labor"?

You should run for Governor

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2011, 12:19:47 PM »

Keith, Right now its looking to be the Pendersoli .45. Now the fun part of saving money continues. I almost have enough for the Traditions, so its going to be a while to get the money for the Pendersoli.

As for running for Governor, I live in NY, theres no way I can win downstate. Now if we can just get NYC to be their own state....

keith44 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2011, 06:17:58 PM »

it'll be worth the wait.

As for governorship, you can have it, I would want no part of it.

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 15, 2011, 02:41:53 PM »

Ok, I was lookin at the Dixie Gun Works site, they have the Pendersoli Pennsylvania and Pendersoli Kentucky kits. One has a patchbox, which isn't a big deal for me, the other is just over 5" longer. There is a price difference of $110, is the extra length really worth the extra money?

keith44 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 15, 2011, 08:53:10 PM »

Ok top gun is my .32 cal flinter (no patch box) 41" barrel, bottom gun is my .54x.54 Kodiak. Both Pedersoli. The last pic is the best view I can show of the sight radius. With my 43 year old eyes the extra length helps me to focus on the front sight and the target. It is hard to get the point of impact to change, but the grouping is tight little clover leafs. I can't speak for the same gun in shorter barrels, but mine is a tack driver!

Rayfan87 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 17, 2011, 03:38:50 PM »

Ok, the choice has been made and the money is getting there. I'm going to save the $110 and go with the Pendersoli Kentucky in .45.

keith44 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 17, 2011, 04:32:01 PM »

The DGW website does not say, but I have found the vent liner to be very odd. It is 5/16 diameter, with a non-SAE thread pitch. I'll look mine up when I get home and post the thread pitch. You may want to order a couple spares for yours. Also the lock on mine requires a very short flint, I've had the best luck ordering flints from Track of the wolf

Buckskins & Black Powder · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2011, 09:06:34 PM »

keith, check these out if you're having a hard time focusing on the sights. Im 27 but open sights for me are fairly fuzzy, especially the rear sight and i took a chance and spent the $9 and focus was a huge improvement. Without it, i have a hard time seeing a 3" black bulls eye at 50 yards.
http://www.clear2target.com/

keith44 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2011, 07:04:20 AM »

Thanks BigBlock, I'll try em.

Co. Batguano · « **Reply #23 on:** June 24, 2011, 01:52:46 PM »

I just taught rifle merit badge this week. I brought up a slug of .22's (Kimber 82 G's and Remington 40-X HB's) as well as a T/C Hawken 50, a Douglas 42" barreled 40 cal flinter, a Knight in-line 50, and an 1863 Sharps carbine breech loading muzzle loader.

Most of the kids needed trigger time. While the muzzle loaders were a lot of fun for the kids to shoot, and go through the experience, the act of shooting, (sight picture, sight alignment, trigger control, breath control) was what they needed more time on and experience in sending rounds down range. For that, the peep sighted target guns taught them plenty, and in a hurry. With the muzzle loaders, the kids could only get 1 shot off in the time it took for the .22 shooters to get off 5. Plus, the target .22's had adjustable sights. The muzzle loaders don't.

I'd say bring them both, and have them qualify with the standard .22's. THEN move them in to the smoke pole. Because of the increased boom, smoke, and particularly slow lock time and pan flash with the flinter, most of the kids didn't shoot the smokepoles as well as they did the other guns. Your mileage may vary, but that was my experience.