Author Topic: Question for home schoolers .  (Read 1297 times)

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Offline Heather

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2011, 07:23:57 AM »
Back to the orginal post ------Please keep the usual blame and shame out of this discussion. It's not about politics or which system is better. I just would like to know.

So basically what you are asking is to be able to start a topic, create post within that topic that ASKS controversial questions, and then demand that those comments be ignored and go back to the original topic?  You created the topic, you changed the topic, and just because you say so we are supposed to change it back because you dont' like where it is headed.  Ok gotcha!
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Offline Hooker

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2011, 09:07:59 AM »
I sent my youngest to a private school which was basically an organized home school environment.
He went to public school through the 6th grade as a straight A student.
He graduated with a 4.0 grade average at 16. During his last year in school he tutored other kids and taught a computer programing class.
After all that he works in the oilfeild , but he makes 6 figures at 26 years old. He is a very well adjusted young man something I can't say for most kids his age. I attribute his success to his education that pushed him to excel much more than a public school setting would have.

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
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Offline XD40SC

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2011, 10:49:11 AM »
Back to the orginal post ------Please keep the usual blame and shame out of this discussion. It's not about politics or which system is better. I just would like to know.

So basically what you are asking is to be able to start a topic, create post within that topic that ASKS controversial questions, and then demand that those comments be ignored and go back to the original topic?  You created the topic, you changed the topic, and just because you say so we are supposed to change it back because you dont' like where it is headed.  Ok gotcha!
.
YIKES -Didn't mean anything by it. Just didn't want it to go off topic. If you think I'm supporting one side or the other on this, you are GREATLY MISTAKEN.. I taught in the public school system and wanted to get the inside opinions from those who homeschool.
I am practicing the following. As a teacher of martial arts, I'm sure you can appreciate them
Wisdom and Knowledge (Cognitive strengths that entail the acquisition and use of knowledge)
 Creativity: Thinking of novel and productive ways to conceptualize and to do things
 Curiosity: Taking an interest in ongoing experiences for its own sake; exploring and discovering
 Open-mindedness: Thinking things through and examining them from all sides; weighing all evidence fairly
 Love of learning: Mastering new skills, topics, and bodies of knowledge, whether on one’s own or formally

 I was practicing the ones in bold and thought asking a question here about homeschooling would fit in with the above.
 I was going to the source.
2 individuals made statements that were unnecessary and that is where my blame and shame statement was directed. I could say more, but would be preaching to the choir. Infact, I'm dropping out for several reasons.

Offline DDZ

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2011, 11:35:40 AM »
Form what I understand home schooled children generally score higher academically then public school students. Its also a myth that home schooled children lack social skills. Studies show that home schooled children do better socially.   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline wreckhog

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2011, 11:46:34 AM »
Often home schooled children are home schooled because they have been kicked out of school for discipline issues. Which often means that they are much smarter than their peers. Catholic schools in my area are notorious for counseling out kids without any plan for where they are going. The state then requires a home school option.

Offline LAREDOBOB

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2011, 12:30:53 PM »
 How do you handle Prom Night?
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Offline Old Fart

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2011, 01:01:58 PM »
The local Home School group in our community has a Prom every year.
Most of the kids know eachother from the activities they share during the year.
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Offline 30-30man

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2011, 01:24:19 PM »
Form what I understand home schooled children generally score higher academically then public school students. Its also a myth that home schooled children lack social skills. Studies show that home schooled children do better socially.
I'd like to know what you base that on? This is not the case here or even in most of the private/charter schools in our area. In SC, we have home school students that come in and test during PASS. PASS is SC version of a standardized test that test state standards in each grade.  I work that week as a test administrator for small groups as I still have my teaching certification. The home school students don't knock it out the park in the four middle schools that I have worked in; I promise you.  I have worked with children for almost 30 years and have never seen home school students in the upper grades score any better than the average student. I know as I read the districts report card every year. I have taught in public school for over 10 years and have worked in a large church commanding the AWANA program which includes 163 kids (2011) for over 25 years. I don't promote public,private, or home schooling. I have seen younger kids do quite well in the early years.  Many of them read much better than their peers.  It's just when they get older that problems can develop. The students that attend regular school catch up and often pass most home schoolers starting in high school.  I can tell you that we have more problems with the older home school students that are still at home getting along with the others than any other group. They are just more dependant on adults solving their disputes than solving it themselves.  It's been that way for years. Parents who do home schooling the way it needs to be done are very rare.



Offline DDZ

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2011, 02:25:14 PM »
These articles kind of contradict your views. They all say about the same, and that is home schooled children do better academically than public schooled children. Its not by just a small amount either. The last couple of articles explain that home schooled children do better socially also.   
Since you have worked in a church commanding the AWANNA program I'm very surprised you don't promote home schooling. I guess more and more parents are not trusting of the government run public schools since the number of home schooled children is raising every year. Which will only better our society.

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

http://www.nheri.org/content/view/174/62/

http://parenting4dummies.com/home-schooling/homeschooling-versus-public-schools.html

http://home-school.lovetoknow.com/Statistics_on_Public_School_Vs_Homeschooling

http://www.mackinac.org/11559

http://www.homeschoolresourcecenter.net/article_homeschooled_kids__but_what_about_socialization.htm

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000000/00000017.asp
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Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2011, 02:54:06 PM »
The parents are in the role of the teacher. They get a manual with the answers for each of the required classes.  That, and they need to study a lot to keep up with the kids. Usually it's a stay at home mom with plenty of time on her hands.

My opinion? Home schooled kids miss out on a lot of important social things, and don't get the benefit of broad adult influence during their formative years. They adapt, just like kids in divorced families adapt, but it's a shame that they have to. In most cases, it's all about parental narcissism. There's nothing particularly respectable about home schooling. The question we raise in each case is: what dysfunction necessitates home schooling? Is it a screwed up family or a screwed up school district? If it's the school district, the parents are at fault for not moving to a place that's better for child rearing, so ultimately it's always a screwed up family. People make moves like that all the time for the benefit of their kids' education, so don't give me any crap about being tied down to one particular place.

By the way, the stats in the previous post are all skewed. Kids in homes where there's enough motivation to teach them yourself is a home where they'd do well academically regardless of how they were schooled. Parents of public school kids include meth heads, alcoholics, deadbeats, abusers, and every other kind of loser on the planet. Just cooking some numbers without taking that into account is just propaganda.

Also keep in mind that today's college education today is about as effective as a high school education fifty years ago, so the bar is set really low for excellence in grade school education today.

Offline mechanic

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2011, 03:03:14 PM »
One thing missing from this discussion is the fact that many of the public schools are not doing too well.  I have a young man in my scout den who has finished and passed the third grade, but can't read even on a 1st. grade level.  I have a good friend who is many years a teacher who I queried about this, and he said now they don't like to hold them back, because it increases the likelihood they will drop out at 16.  My next question to him was, "if they can't read, what does it matter?"  He might as well drop out now.

We are reaching a crisis in education in that political correctness, and the system of giving each school money based on number of students and lower drop out rates outweighs the responsibility to educate.

I understand the lack of parental input with so many of these youngsters, (with some it's just a lack of parents, this young man is being raised by a grandmother.)

I still don't understand why they are not held back and tutored, or SOMETHING other than just passed over.

Home schooling isn't for everyone, and certainly not in high school level classes, but I bet a mother who cares enough to home school can teach a child to read.  If they can read, they have the ability to learn everything.  If they can't read, they  will learn next to nothing.

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Offline Hooker

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2011, 03:26:24 PM »
Parents that attend to the education of their child in a proper manner are very rare, no matter how the children are schooled.
I dropped out of school in my 10Th grade year. I was a good student, I excelled in science and history my only troubled subject was math. I had to work twice as hard as most to keep my grades in math above a C level. School for me was by the tenth grade a bore. My first year of high school and my teachers were egotistical half wits teaching tired academic crap. No stimulation of the brain just robotic lessons taught by drones.
I have had the good fortune to have been blessed with some of the very best teachers in my life. My last year of junior high I blessed with 3 teachers who were masters in art of teaching. A math teacher who knew that I struggled with the subject but never let me fall behind and always squeezed a bit more out of me. A science teacher who fueled my mind with things that went far beyond the class room and the text books. Lastly a history teacher who although he was quite liberal allowed me the opportunity to debate not only against his philosophies but the fictional claims within our text books.
But my 10 grade year was not blessed so I dropped out joined the work force and got my GED.
I made a promise that my kids would not be educated by drones , zombies or dinosaurs  with tired old sheepskins . 
Public school with it's standardized testing is not a measure of anything unless you consider one size fits all stupidity an accomplishment.
Government mandated curriculum stifles the good teachers and produces mediocre students.
So for my kids it was lots of hands on, private tutors, some private schooling and  lots of home schooling. I have met a lot of parents like me with very well adjusted intelligent kids. If your not an idiot and you take an active role in your child's education they will get a better education, but if you apply that participation  to a non government infected school you will be absolutely amazed how far your kids can go.   

Pat 
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Offline 30-30man

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2011, 04:41:19 PM »
DDZ, Those articles you found are almost all written by home school organizations.  These statistics are hardly unbiased. I could show you the same data that these articles cited that would show very little discrepancy between the groups. Schools play with data all the time to make it look any way they want.  AWANA has nothing to do with home schools. It's about teaching God's Word. There are no ties to any organization.  What you can't measure is what I am referring to.  That is the ability to interact with age appropriate peers in the upper grades. I never said I was against home school in the early years.  It has been pr oven that sometimes it helps due to a very small learning environment which is critical in elementary school.  The problem I have with it is when the kids reach adolescence.  Most home school parents do not provide enough social interactions with large groups.  Kids need to learn how to solve their own problems with peers and be able to work within large groups.  Often this is lacking in the home school environment. I have no problem with private Christian school in the upper years.  That is what I recommend when they reach high school.  Home school is for the younger kids.

Offline no guns here

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2011, 04:02:10 AM »
Sorry, going to get long-winded here...


Why WOULD you expect homeschooled students to do well on the PASS tests?  It's a known fact that almost all school systems with those standardized tests TEACH the test.  They have to teach the test in order for their own students to do well so that the school can continue to justify their existence.  In my case, I watched a DoD school in Germany take a week or more to "prepare" for the tests.  Also, the Texas ISD here in San Antonio also dedicate a week or more prior to the testing to "prepare" for the tests.  Basically, they take time off to make sure they go back and cover what is on the tests.  If a homeschool student isn't taught the test, why would you expect them to do well on it.

Quote
My opinion? Home schooled kids miss out on a lot of important social things, and don't get the benefit of broad adult influence during their formative years. They adapt, just like kids in divorced families adapt, but it's a shame that they have to. In most cases, it's all about parental narcissism. There's nothing particularly respectable about home schooling. The question we raise in each case is: what dysfunction necessitates home schooling? Is it a screwed up family or a screwed up school district? If it's the school district, the parents are at fault for not moving to a place that's better for child rearing, so ultimately it's always a screwed up family. People make moves like that all the time for the benefit of their kids' education, so don't give me any crap about being tied down to one particular place.

You are generalizing and stereotyping here.  Not ALL homeschooled kids are missing out on important social things.  What socialization are they missing out on?  Socializing with other kids in school or adult influence?  As a Homeschool parent for over 13 years, I have to say that MOST homeschoolers that I have EVER been associated with go out of their way to ensure that their kid's are "social".  We do it through Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Cub Scouts, Little League, football, basketball, church groups, co-ops and many other ways.  Most home schooled kids that I have met are VERY well adjusted to dealing with adults.
The disfunction that we try to remedy or avoid is a screwed up school district and a curriculum that is designed and dictated by a liberal elitist group that believes in values and doctrine that we don't believe in.  Through homeschooling we can enable our children to learn at their own pace which may be slower or faster than the pace dictated by the local school district.  My kids avoid "socialization" such as cussing, dirty jokes, sexual harrassment, gay and lesbian indoctrination, sex ed at 5-8 years old, anti-christian bias, anti-gun bias, and various other subjects and issues that I feel are detrimental and just plain wrong.
And NO, not all parents can just pick up and move.  There are such things as current jobs, future employability, education, disabilities and even military service that can force you into a particular living arrangement.

I have met and known of some few homeschooled kids that are basically sequestered away from the outside world and some very few homeschooled kids who aren't being given the appropriate chance for a decent education.  If I may generalize a bit here based on my family's experience in homeschooling in four states and two foreign countries over the past 13 years, I would have to say that the number of homeschooler's who aren't putting forth a very good effort to give their kids a good education is very low.  This is not a decision that we enter into lightly.  In my case, my parents were teachers, my sister was a teacher, my cousins were teachers, my uncle was a teacher.  I was a junior NCO in the AF, so a full-time salary from my wife was sorely missed.  It took a lot of discussion, praying and talking to other homeschoolers before I agreed to it.  It has cost my family approximately $400,000 - $500,000 in lost income to homeschool my kids.  So, obviously, if I'm going to give up that much money, we are going to put in a good faith effort and do our due diligence to ensure that my kids education doesn't suffer due to our "parental narcissism".

If anyone REALLY wants to know about homeschooling I suggest you search out some local homeschooling groups and attend some meetings and really talk and LISTEN to the parents there.  Then, ask permission and talk and LISTEN to the kids there.  After that, go to the local junior high and talk to the parents there... except they aren't there.  Then talk and LISTEN to the kids there.  Most conversations you will overhear there will be profane, disgusting and disrespectful. Then talk to the teachers and find out how much time they have each day to spend with each individual student.  The average classroom has 24-28 kids and one teacher.  In a one-hour class, you have to subtract 10 minutes just for administrative details leaving a MAX of 50 minutes for the teacher to deal with 26 students.  That's a MAX of two minutes of individual attention IF there are NO other distractions such as discipline problems to deal with.  Homeschoolers very often have HOURS of individual attention per day in their subjects.  My son can get more done in two-three hours than public schools do in an entire day.




Okay, I guess I've written enough now.

NGH
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Offline 30-30man

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2011, 06:02:37 AM »
In SC, the state standards and now the core national standards (nationalized with almost every state now) are not based on political agendas or some liberal influence.  They involve math, English/language arts, science, and social studies. The topics in science and social studies are pretty generic. You can look these up at almost every state's website.  In every state there are standards that are written to let teachers know the topics they need to teach to ensure a student can graduate and meet the requirements of a high school diploma on time.  Home school parents are required to teach to these standards as these students will have to meet the same requirements for a high school diploma. If they decide to get a diploma online, they will have to meet the standards of that state. These standards also build on one another.    Any state standardized test is a measure of what any one student can do in relation to their peers.  I have never seen any real evidence that home school students do any better or worse.  Academics is not what I have issues with.
No guns here, I have never stated I was against home schooling.  I think it works well with younger children.  What do you think home school children are faced with when they leave for college?  That same environment many of us have tried to shelter them from.  A crash course at 18 is not the best way in my opinion.  I think they need more opportunity to work with others, handle their own disputes and social problems than what the typical home school situation can provide.  These situations just as any, require practice so that they can make the right choices according to the morals we have taught them at home.  When they leave home, they will have to apply these morals to best of their ability and help from God.  Have any of us been expected to apply a concept without practice?  Would you want to enter a plane with a pilot who has only flown jets through video games?  That is about the same logic many home school parents use when they keep the older kids at home. I hate this nasty world as much as anybody.  I grow tired to sorry parents and a lack of respect for who God is.  I hate what the ACLU has done to public schools.  I understand that there are things in a regular school that nobody wants their kids exposed to.  The reality is that you can’t keep them from it forever.

Offline no guns here

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2011, 09:06:57 AM »
Quote
Any state standardized test is a measure of what any one student can do in relation to their peers.
Quote
I have never seen any real evidence that home school students do any better or worse.
Then the educational benefits of home-schooling are a wash and aren't debatable.
A standard is not a curriculum.  A standard is a measurable objective that is used to determine if a school is doing it's job or if it should be taken over or denied funding or whatever.  Therefore, instead of educating our kids, the schools teach what is on the test in order to bring up their scores and to ensure funding.  Sex ed and gay/lesbian education is not on the standard tests but is still being pushed and taught in public schools.

Quote
What do you think home school children are faced with when they leave for college?
  I don't think there are any issues with this for the most part.  I have two kids in college and they are both carrying 3.5 and above.  My best friend's daughter was home schooled entirely, she NEVER went to a public school.  She is currently carrying a 4.0 at the end of her junior year working on a degree to be a pharmacist.

Quote
A crash course at 18 is not the best way in my opinion.
I believe an 18 year old homeschooler with a good education and years of conservative grounding in their family and church is much more able to deal with the pressures of college than most kids who have very little parental, family or church involvment and history.

Quote
In SC, the state standards and now the core national standards (nationalized with almost every state now) are not based on political agendas or some liberal influence.
Quote
I hate what the ACLU has done to public schools.

Guess you gotta make up your mind on this one...


Quote
That is about the same logic many home school parents use when they keep the older kids at home.
That's what I'm trying to get at here.  This is a generalization and a stereotype.  Just because a kid is homeschooled DOESN'T mean they are sequestered away and kept from interaction in public.  A few are, most aren't.  I knew several American homeschoolers in Germany who homeschooled in the morning, worked jobs in the afternoon and then went to sports practice and then on to other volunteer positions several evenings a week.  Another friend (retired AF Colonel) has 4 homeschooled daughters, at least two of which started their own business before age 18.  One was an upholsterer and one sub-contracted cakes and such to a caterer.  My own kids have in no particular order earned or served as Girl Scout Gold Award, Boy Scout Eagle Scout, Venture Crew president/vice president, JROTC SGM, XO, CO; Boy Scout Camp Commissioner (at age 16 normally an adult position), Stuttgart Youth Volunteer of the Year, Assistant Den Leader for Cub Scouts, Boy Scout Assistant Scout Master and that's all just off the top of my head and since they were 16 or so.  I dare say most of these kids are better prepared for dealing with people and issues much better than the average public school kid with no parental involvment and standard courses.  But then, I'm generalizing.  There are MANY public school kids who are competive scholars and who are extremely involved in extra-curriculars as well as public service.  My point is you can't just generalize and lump all homeschoolers under the stereotype of a kid who is kept indoors and never exposed to life.  My family, like most homeschoolers that I know, choose to limit and determine the exposure our kids get according to what we believe is right for our kids.  We prefer that our kids aren't thrown into a maelstrom of sex, drugs, anti-religion and pro-homosexuality.  There will be time enough for them to sort through all of that in adulthood AFTER the have a solid education, a solid family base and a solid christian grounding.


Sorry to seem like I'm busting on you.  This is just a sore subject with me.  I'm so tired of the whole stereotype of homeschoolers and religious nuts who keeps their kids hidden from society without any social skills or concept of the real world.  In reality, most of us just choose to manage our childrens exposure and delay it until they are old enough and mature enough to make good life-skills choices.


Later,
NGH
 
"I feared for my life!"

Offline briarpatch

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2011, 09:45:46 AM »
Most socializing a child gets is not in school. They don't socialize in school. They are in a structured environment that demands they sit quietly and learn about what ever it is they teach them.
Walking a hallway between classes is not socializing. The majority of students do not play sports, there are limits on talent and numbers allowed.
It is after school in the streets, woods, back lots, open fields, streams and other places kids go with children of neighbors. They have family and the associated members, cousins, uncles, aunts, and friends of each.
There is church and the programs they offer. All of this and more from which they learn the facts of life and how to deal with adult situations.
If you think back most will agree their life's training did not come from school.
The common denominator is good parents or mentoring by those that are concerned. You can stick them in school or in a swamp, with good parents they will make it. Without them they most likely will not.   
   

Offline 30-30man

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2011, 09:55:02 AM »
No Guns Here,

I don't think you could ever make me feel busted or put down.  We just don't have the same experiences, that's all.   I know there are many parents who feel strongly about what they are doing when they choose to home school.  I have no problem with most of it.  I do have a problem with parents thinking little contact with peers helps because it doesn't.  Even adults make stupid decisions.  There is a difference in intelligence and wisdom.  Wisdom can't be achieved at home on the kitchen table four to five days a week. It takes real world experiences. . I guess we can be thankful we have a choice and we in America.  I disagree with you on this one.

Offline no guns here

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2011, 10:06:08 AM »
Cool...
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Offline BBF

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Re: Question for home schoolers .
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2011, 12:14:47 PM »
How do you handle Prom Night?

If you have a daughter, probably a lot less worried. ;)
What is the point of Life if you can't have fun.