Author Topic: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s (Read 13213 times)

fatercat · « **on:** June 05, 2011, 12:47:09 PM »

all these " la tee dah" kimber, colt, and the others charging up to and over $2000.00 for a 1911 days are numbred. who in the hell would pay that kind of money for any kind of a hand gun is way past me. Ruger and remington are going to put these guy in need of a bail out. just as well for most of us.

Scibaer · « **Reply #1 on:** June 05, 2011, 01:07:36 PM »

What am i missing, what makes the .45 acp and the "1911" styled handguns command such a following anyhow?

us920669 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 05, 2011, 01:44:25 PM »

Well, they probably represent the best combination of cartridge and platform for a combat sidearm that has ever been or ever will be developed, unless the requirement is for an ultra-powerful big bore or summertime concealability.

hillbill · « **Reply #3 on:** June 05, 2011, 02:17:31 PM »

Quote from: us920669 on June 05, 2011, 01:44:25 PM

Well, they probably represent the best combination of cartridge and platform for a combat sidearm that has ever been or ever will be developed, unless the requirement is for an ultra-powerful big bore or summertime concealability.

well yea theres that and they jus feel,handle and shoot well! id prob never pay much more than 6 or 700 buks for one. but then id never pay more than that for any handgun either.

simplicity · « **Reply #4 on:** June 05, 2011, 03:21:43 PM »

I have to aggree with this post quite a bit. A good exsample take for instance the Springfeild range master msrp roughly $1000 (not gonna go into how horrible I find their machining) according to the reveiw it's groups averaged 2.7 inches at 25yrds (american rifleman). Now take the ruger SR9C msrp roughly $400 it's average was 3" now that's not even the width of a .30 cal bullet diameter (Guns and Ammo). I read lots of reveiws of alot of high end 1911 and the best the group is usually 2.5 at 25yrd. I just bought a ruger sr1911 with win. white box my average 5 shot groups have been 2.5 inches at 25yrds with the 25 rounds of defensive ammo ie rem. golden saber the average of 5 5shot groups has been 2.25. Again what are they paying for?

Two things that might make a change either A: they just admit that the $1500+ 1911'a won't give you any real better accuracy then a $500 polymer handgun that's usually more reliable to boot. or B: the guys doing the reveiws should accually really learn to shoot a handgun or step aside and lets someone who does do the shooting or just only do reviews where the gun is shot in a ransom (spelling) rest to eliminate the human error factor. But hey we still have folks in the world like madonna that spend $10k a month just on bottled water to.

Savage · « **Reply #5 on:** June 05, 2011, 04:24:10 PM »

Why would anyone spend $40k> on an automobile when you can get a Kia that will that will do the same job, and save tons of money to boot! Mystery to me---------

Savage

williamlayton · « **Reply #6 on:** June 06, 2011, 01:57:40 AM »

Boys, you spend YOUR money your way, hang your "A" on a out of the box 1911--even with a 1000 rounds down range.
There is a reason the aftermarket presents a whole range of BETTER parts that can be fitted into a better platform.
Now you take your $400 gun that has parts from the lowest common denominator to the range and shoot it till it breaks and you are still alive---you work it up so that the slide is the lightest and fastess at the game and it breaks and you are still alive.
Now I am not saying that anything is truely bullet proof---but take your gun into a situation it was originally designed for and I will take mine.
Blessings

Plenty Coups · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2011, 05:01:15 PM »

There will always be sales of these firearms until the world finds a cure for the "little (censored word) syndrome". Same for F250 Ford diesels, Dodge Vipers, small castles, car stereos loud enough for a rock concert........well you get the picture. Yah gotta make up for it somehow.

Savage · « **Reply #8 on:** June 06, 2011, 05:20:40 PM »

Quote from: Plenty Coups on June 06, 2011, 05:01:15 PM

There will always be sales of these firearms until the world finds a cure for the "little (censored word) syndrome". Same for F250 Ford diesels, Dodge Vipers, small castles, car stereos loud enough for a rock concert........well you get the picture. Yah gotta make up for it somehow.

Yep, we'd all be better off driving the same size and type of automobile, eating the same food, maybe even wearing uniforms. This individuality thing is over rated anyway. Who needs anything that's different?

By the way, I'd really like to have a Viper!
Savage

Keith L · « **Reply #9 on:** June 07, 2011, 12:16:20 AM »

Savage, you can have the Viper. I have dibs on the F250 Diesel. And I will keep and enjoy my Kimber.

Savage · « **Reply #10 on:** June 07, 2011, 01:53:19 AM »

Keith, already have the truck. Big one too! Guess it makes up for my "Short comings" . Just like to have the Viper-------------well, just because! And------------my Kimbers ain't goin anywhere.
Savage

Scibaer · « **Reply #11 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:03:34 AM »

I didnot advocate socialism, everyone wearing the same clothing or eating the same foods. I asked why the following for the 1911's.
it was an honest question. I guess i tripped up, sorta like asked what makes the corvette so great in a room full of vette collectors.
no harm, no foul.

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #12 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:06:06 AM »

Hey simplicity, my Kimber does 2.5" at 50yds. I can bust empty cigarette packages at will at that range, and bunnies are TOAST!! Nothing wrong at all w your gun, but there isnt any doubt in MY ind at least where my money went!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:10:46 AM »

not to bust your bubble but kimber makes 1911s that retail for no more then a ruger or reminton. So does springfield. Colt isnt to far away. I do agree that a guy can for the most part pick up great 1911 for a grand or a bit less. Ive shook my head at some of the ones that go for 3k. Nice guns for sure but when my 1000 dollar ones shoot one inch at 25 and run a 100 percent i just dont see the need to plunk down 2 grand more for some snob appeal. One thing you have to be careful with when buying a 1911 though is that your buying enough gun. The price of the bottom of the line guns from companys like springfield, kimber, sti and others look great but if your going to buy one and then start upgrading it with things like ambridexteous safteys, ajustable sights night sights ect youll soon spend more then if you just bucked up and bought a higher end model to start with

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #14 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:12:58 AM »

I guess in answer to the original question, the slim grip frame as opposed to the wide doublestack magazine well on many of todays pistols feels better in my hand, and because it works so well for me, I dont feel that I NEED a dozen + rounds to defend myself in an emergency situation. If I do I must have made some grave "Tactical" errors on my way to the supermarket or where ever i'm headed. Besides thats what my extra magazine pouch is for. Second, the pistol has a full century of refinement going for it. Built/maintained properly there is NOTHING on the market that will shoot as well, or be more reliable than the 1911 platform. just my 2 cents.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #15 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:42:57 AM »

In most things you truely do get what you paid for. But 1911s and ar15s arent allways on that list. What could they POSSIBLY do to one to make it 3 times better then my gold match kimber. Sure there may be a part or two thats better but for a couple hundred bucks I could buy all of those parts. Are they more reliable. MAYBE. Ive put 50k trouble free rounds through a number of 1911s with only spring changes. Ive also had parts break after only 5k. Id bet it wouldnt be much differnent on those 3k guns. Ars are about the same. Theres no way anyone is selling me an ar for 3k. About the only thing you can upgrade on one is the bolt and carriier and i can buy a top shelf bolt and carrieer for 4oo bucks and put it in a 800 dollar stag or bushmaster. I kind of tire of the guys claiming better parts reliablility. How many here actually shoot there guns say 5000 rounds a year. I do and have very few parts breakage. For 2k i could stock enough parts to keep enough 1911s and ars running forever to arm a small army. Those high end companys rely on snob appeal to sell things. Hire a couple special forces guys to tell you that you need those guns and they sell. What they dont tell you is those arent the guns the seals or rangers are using. As to the overpriced car deal. I was a vette owner and have big trucks. A big truck cost about the same as a small one anymore so that argument doesnt fly. Compare a corvette to its competion and its hands down a bargin. Compare it to a kia (now im getting sick) sure it cost more. Things like v8 motors that get as good a gas milage as the 4 cyl in a kia and can run down the road a 180mph and do it on a chassis thats good enough to handle it and breaks and tires that will handle it. Now factor in the fiberglass body that will never rust. Real leather instead of plastic and cloth. Say what you want but if you were all honest youd have to admitt youd rather pull up to your high school reunion in a zo6 corvette then you would in a (censored word) kia. If not check yourself at the end of my driveway as i dont need to waste 5 minutes talking to a yuppie like that.

Quote from: williamlayton on June 06, 2011, 01:57:40 AM

Boys, you spend YOUR money your way, hang your "A" on a out of the box 1911--even with a 1000 rounds down range.
There is a reason the aftermarket presents a whole range of BETTER parts that can be fitted into a better platform.
Now you take your $400 gun that has parts from the lowest common denominator to the range and shoot it till it breaks and you are still alive---you work it up so that the slide is the lightest and fastess at the game and it breaks and you are still alive.
Now I am not saying that anything is truely bullet proof---but take your gun into a situation it was originally designed for and I will take mine.
Blessings

simplicity · « **Reply #16 on:** June 07, 2011, 03:30:25 AM »

Spencer I'm not saying that the high end ones won't shoot I'm just implying I read numorous reviews of high end 1911's that according to the reviews don't group or shoot any better then a gun that's a 1/3 of their cost. All my groups I shot off hand so yesterday i shot both my sr1911 and my glock 20 10mm off a bench to see what the best I could get out of them was and I had three groups of 5 5shot groups that went under a inch center to center the largest being 2.25 all with winchester white box 230gr. Which in all honesty doesn't say much just do to i finally got a box that was consistant I'll be working on handloads soon enough. The best of the glock 20 was 1.25 center to center. I normally honestly really don't care much for shooting 1911's to begin with, the only reason why I purchased the sr1911 is I needed it to compete in the heavy metal class of 3-gun (which requires a single stack 45 caliber handgun) Where as long as you gun is reliable and will keep it on a paper plate at 25 yards, and your skills are there you can win alot of competitions. I've won the last 5 pistol stages I've competed in with a smith M&P40 ($450)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** June 07, 2011, 03:41:42 AM »

Quote from: fatercat on June 05, 2011, 12:47:09 PM

all these " la tee dah" kimber, colt, and the others charging up to and over $2000.00 for a 1911 days are numbred. who in the hell would pay that kind of money for any kind of a hand gun is way past me. Ruger and remington are going to put these guy in need of a bail out. just as well for most of us.

Don't worry like American built trucks there will be a market for better quality in the future also.

drdougrx · « **Reply #18 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:54:37 AM »

I just don't think the market for high end 1911s will ever really peter out. I've had sooo many guns built, 1911s, HPs, SBHs, all kinds of SWs. The $$$ I've spent...and I won't even get into the custom knife collection or the rebuilt rifles.....and then I had kids, mortgages and a few years of common sense, some call it maturity, I would NOT give myself that much credit.....so...I've sold all of the Mag-Na-Port customs, Cylinder and Slide shop HPs, Jack Weigand Precision SWs and most of the Randall mades that don't have my name engraved on them.

What did I keep?

A full-house series 70 Colt Gm hand built by LaRocca Gunworks, a lightly customized LW Commander also by LaRocca....replaced my custom HPs with stock block 9mms and 40SWs. Can't find much to do with my half dozen current SW or Ruger revolvers...... But when I was younger....wow....what I had to have was scary........

Now....I look at Ed Brown and Heine and others and I think....for what I need...A SW, Ruger, Kimber, etc will be fine....maybe a ramp throat polish, different sites and a trigger....maybe not....I'm with LLoyd and WillLayton on this one....spend your money as you want......

us920669 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 07, 2011, 06:08:30 AM »

There are a million and one things that go into manufacturing anything. It's not just parts, but critical tolerances, do you have a real expert go over the thing with a fine tooth comb before it sees the light of day, etc. A guy let me drive his Ferrari once. You can laugh, but that baby ran. Or, you could pay someone to push you around in a wheelbarrow. You'll get where you're going, but I think I'll keep my Acura, and my Kimber.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** June 07, 2011, 06:48:56 AM »

In most cases those who write off the top line products can't afford them to begin with, don't have a need for it or understanding of what it takes to be top of the line products. IMHO

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #21 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:08:26 AM »

I hear ya Simplicity! Sir I dont know about the reviews, I only know how my pistol shoots. The 1911 may just not be for you. Like I said there is absolutely nothing wrong with the pistols you have stated. Variety=Spice of life! Right? I am actually much more of a revolver buff myself, but I decided that I needed a good P.D.F., have always admired the 1911, so the next one that came through my hands, I kept. My first was an Argentine1927 model that went for my 6" .22 Colt Diamondback. A coupla others were an A.M.T Hardballer, and another Colt, a GoldCup. Played with them, then when the novelty wore off, I let them go. I have read some other posts here about others using their Glock 20's in 10mm for deer with good results! Matter of fact, my younger brothers 1911 is one of the first production Colt Delta Elite's, in 10mm of course, and I have offered him ALOT for it. He won't budge!

Confidence in your weapon, and comfort in hand play a big role in its effectiveness, so shoot what you like. Best of luck in your competition too!!

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #22 on:** June 07, 2011, 08:10:54 AM »

Fatercat – to answer your question; IMO there’s enough people in the good ole USA that will keep the semi-custom & custom 1911 gun shops in business to the end of time.

Scibaer – to answer your question; IMO it’s the same reason an individual will purchase a revolver made by John Linebaugh, Dave Clements, Hamilton Bowen and others or high-end production models such as Freedom Arms etc.

Les Baer will guarantee some of his semi-custom models to shoot a 1.5 inch – 10 shot group at 50 yards. I don’t know anyone that has or can shoot that good off-hand to take full advantage of that type of accuracy but you can get it if you feel the need. For those who compete, they have a need for a pistol that shoots bugholes, as it takes the pistol out of the "excuse" list and that also goes for the beginner or novice shooter but without the "need". Others like Wilson, Brown etc. will build some semi-custom models that will shoot 1 inch or a little better at 25 yards.

The full blown custom 1911’s will shoot 1 inch or a little better at 25 yards but they are put together by a talented craftsman one at a time and there’s a lot of attention paid to detail and that’s what you’re paying for – their talent & time.

Pride of ownership may also come into the equation and the way I see it – that’s a good feature, as we earn that pride, as for many of us it’s a fulfillment of a dream or quest.

I’m retired but occasionally find the odd job for a little extra cash, so I’m not well off financially by any means, but I’ve been able to purchase both new and used handguns made by Baer, Bowen, Jim Clark, Clements, Harton, R.L. Shockey as well as BFR, Colt, Ruger and Sweat & Miss ‘em. Why the semi-custom & custom handguns – for no other reasons than I like quality workmanship, needed the accuracy for "past" competitive events and I just wanted that particular handgun.

Every now & then I still question myself, as I massage my wrist, as to why I “needed” that 500 Linebaugh Maximum made by David Clements - but it just seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

reliquary · « **Reply #23 on:** June 07, 2011, 10:00:06 AM »

I'm with the poster in Reply #2...to me, the 1911 pistol and its clones are the epitome of a combat handgun. I've owned and used them extensively since my first WWI surplus rustbucket bought for $35.00 in 1954. I can remember having 5 different ones: the surplus 1911, an Argentine 1927, a commercial 1960s Colt, a RIA, and now a carry Commander, all in .45 ACP.

In addition, I carried the issue pistols during an Army career, and used an issue National Match version when competing in post-, division-, and Army-level matches. Quit keeping a logbook but rough count of rounds downrange is 300K.

I have bet my life on the 1911 several times, and would again, any day. None of my personal guns have been high-dollar, but they've all been checked over by a competent smith. The only modifications I've ever done were some mild adjustments to the various lockworks, opening up the rear sight aperture, and Hogue grips.

If I had the money to spare, I'd carry a top-of-the-line Kimber or Les Baer. If you can afford something like that, go for it. Whatever you use, have it checked out and get good with it.

I drive an F250, as well. Wish I had a Corvette. Sigh...

Savage · « **Reply #24 on:** June 07, 2011, 10:01:15 AM »

Quote from: Scibaer on June 07, 2011, 02:03:34 AM

I didnot advocate socialism, everyone wearing the same clothing or eating the same foods. I asked why the following for the 1911's.
it was an honest question. I guess i tripped up, sorta like asked what makes the corvette so great in a room full of vette collectors.
no harm, no foul.

Wasn't responding directly to you. Yours was a fair question. I'm glad we live in a society where we can make individual choices, at least for now.
Cheers!
Savage

simplicity · « **Reply #25 on:** June 07, 2011, 11:23:47 AM »

Spencer I hear you on spices of life hence the attached photo. The only high end 1911's I have gotten to play with were acouple nighthawk GPR's (a fellow shooter at my range has three of them don't know why but has three) They were by far acouple of the best shooting auto's I've ever laid hands on I didn't have any problems holding a inch or better off han at 25 yards. For $2600 or better damned they should be, I'm a mchinist by trade and after looking the GPR's over I under sand why the particulars cost that much all the surfaces aren't machined to finish they are ground to finish (which is a slow exspensive proccess but your no going to get tolerances any tighter maybe if they were EDM ground which would kick that cost easily over 5k) The tolerances were so tight all three of them would start to malfunction and not feed after about 100 rounds due to powder getting on the rails. Also I can understand why folks are having good luck on deer with 10mm's, my first pet load for my glock 20 is a 155gr xtp at 1400fps (chrono'd) and there's stilll room to go. That's one potent auto loader. Like that's been stated before in this thread yeah the high priced 1911's may shoot better then the bottom of the barrel 1911's and glock, XD M&P etc. but the difference from reviews is usually less then a half inch and 95% or better of the shooters out there can't shoot good enough to justify the highend cost other then being like madonna who spends 10k on bottld water just cause she can. (photo attached "my handgun spice of life")

gs50401 · « **Reply #26 on:** June 07, 2011, 01:02:07 PM »

!911's are like Harley Davidson motorcycles. A lot of history, a bunch of aftermarket stuff, a little quirky and can be spendy.

I carry my Glocks but fuss over my 1911's and shoot them at the range.

boatboy · « **Reply #27 on:** June 07, 2011, 04:43:13 PM »

If you dont get it its not my job to make you get it.

I recently bought my first Kimber shot it last week. The Angels didnt sing the trumpets didnt play and there was no reporters but you know its really a nice gun. I plan to shoot the heck out of it.

I also have a few Colts and a Taurus 1911 they also shoot great. I have been bit by the 1911 bug but I had to come to that conclusion by myself no one else could take me there

100 years later and they are as cool as Fonzie!

Hank

williamlayton · « **Reply #28 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:19:27 PM »

I don't own a Wilson, Baer or Brown.
All my guns are bought as stock weapons, Mostly Colts, copule of STI's and that old Norinco I got on a dare.
I have all the parts looked at--all the MIM's are set aside, I put on better parts all over the gun statrting with the front and going to the rear. Now some things are just personal touhes I like, such as short GI triggers---but good triggers, Arched mainsprings, Heinie sights, extended safeties, good fireing pins and ejectors--new springs.
Fitting of all parts, checking lock-up, barrels,.
The only gun I dolled up didn't work out because of a problem with an engraver--I had a Caspian slide with no roll marks put on it
As I don't do the work it cost more---generally $5/700 above the base gun cost. The Norinco was a bit more and the Colt commander was a lot more because of the slide and fitting.
Blessings

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #29 on:** June 07, 2011, 06:05:52 PM »

Nice lot of pistols Simplicity!! Been thinking about one of those X-Frames myself. Leaning tword the .500, but like the option of .45 Colt, .454 Cassull in the .460 version, so dont know. Very glad all of us can talk about our preferences without the BS sometimes associated with these types of debates. You make good points, and thanx for hearing mine/ours on the 1911 side. One other that I would love to have that isnt a 1911 was designed by Mr. John Browning also-his HI-Power. .40S@W version i'm thinking. She is gonna help me post a coupla pics of some of my favorites cause im not very computer savvy. Let me know what ya think!