Author Topic: all these high dollar guys better take a heads up on 1911s (Read 13432 times)

1911crazy · « **Reply #60 on:** June 19, 2011, 08:13:29 AM »

The way i look at it some guns have more than a following. These guys are into one gun only i've seen this many times now. There are different ways to look at it. If i was into one style of gun or if i was ging to compete in matches/shoots i'd purchase a better quality manufacturer and build it even better. Having one top shelf lets say a 1911 thats better than anything else out there. But i like all guns no matter what model or caliber.

Its up to us wether we want a high dollar 1911 or a few low cost 1911's. One high dollar 1911 or a few affordable 1911's to play with. I think its fun to shoot the different brands to see how they compare and perform too. Once there up and running/cycling ok there pretty much the same to me. Now whats said here is there is a difference in the quality of the parts between the high dollar 1911 and the lower priced 1911's. Its whats on the inside that counts i guess. Longevity is the difference between the two different priced 1911's thats whats being said right?

So the bottomline is if we don't shoot it that much than a lower priced 1911 will serve us ok. But if we shoot a lot the high dollar quality 1911 would serve us better. Right?? CZY

NickSS · « **Reply #61 on:** June 26, 2011, 12:43:32 AM »

This is an interesting thread so I thought I would put my 2 cents worth in. First let me say that I am a long time fan of the 1911 but I am also cheap. Currently I have five 1911s in 45 ACP from five different makers including RIA, Citidel, Auto Ordinance, Taurus and Kimber. All except the Kimber cost me right around $500 while the Kimber was near double that price. All 5 of them shoot about the same sized groups with the GI Auto Ordinance being a bit less accurate than the others but not by much I think the very small GI style sights have something to do with that. Though I love them and shoot lots of rounds from them every year I do not pack any of them for self defense for three reasons:
1. They are all heavy steel guns that seam to drag my pants down after carrying it all day.
2. Though very reliable they are not the most reliable pistols that I own. I get more jams and other problems with 1911s than any other semi auto pistol I own except some older ones that were made around the same era as WWII.
3. I do not like to carry a pistol cocked and locked and any other way is not very fast to get into operation with a 1911.

So for CCW I carry a plastic wonder and the latest one is a Glock 17. I got 18 shots and no safeties to worry about. I have owned and shot this gun for 15 years and have never had a malfunction of any sort in 12000 rounds. With good defensive ammo I carry it will do the job if needed and all I need to do is pull the trigger.

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #62 on:** June 26, 2011, 07:32:21 AM »

Cant fault your logic, Nick. The gun that saves your life is the one that you have with you, not the one in the safe at home!

Dixiejack · « **Reply #63 on:** July 17, 2011, 03:50:31 AM »

I have most always bought the best quality I could afford even if I meant having to wait until I had the money. My father had a saying about quality. "If you want to buy quality oats, you got to pay the price. Now, if you can be satisfied with having them run through the mule one time, you can get them a whole lot cheaper."

woods · « **Reply #64 on:** July 24, 2011, 08:58:59 AM »

I'm a tool and die maker and I know the cost of machineing parts for handguns and the amount of time in manufacturing them. It isn't cheap at 40.00 an hour. So if you figure 400 as a price tag it took the manufacturer about 10 hours to make your handgun. Thats not takeing into mind the seller is makeing a profit. I helped build a couple ejection plastic mould's for one manufacturer they estimated they could get about 50,000 frames out of it before we would be reworking it. Said it was just like stamping out tuperware. Now you take a higher end handgun like kimber that is machined from a casting averages 1,200.00 now you are paying for a machine to individually carve out each frame. Everyone uses some stamping and molding process for certian parts thats how you keep cost down. All in all what I'm saying is you are paying for someone to do the work. Me being one of those people thank you for keeping me working. As for which one you purchase I like the one's that say MADE IN AMERICA.

woods

Spencer, Carey · « **Reply #65 on:** July 24, 2011, 06:35:16 PM »

Thanx for wading in Woods. An extremely pertinent post, from a guy "in the know". Very relevant, and enlightening to alot for sure.

ratdog · « **Reply #66 on:** July 25, 2011, 08:46:37 PM »

man what a disease.wide spread.

12ptdroptine · « **Reply #67 on:** July 28, 2011, 03:30:24 PM »

I bought a Kimber Gold Match. Up until I bought that gun I could never hit the broadside of a barn with a handgnt. I also bought a Ruger SuperRedhawk to go hog hunting with this winter... I cant hit worth a dern wioth the Ruger .. Yet... But the first time I shot the kimber at 25 yds I beat the bullseye out of the target...4 out of 7 touching. I fell in love with it. Did I mention I bought a Kimber?

?

Dixiejack · « **Reply #68 on:** July 28, 2011, 04:16:40 PM »

Found a deler close by that stocks Kimbers. Got to handle a couple. Man, they are nice. Maybe next.

ole 5 hole group · « **Reply #69 on:** July 29, 2011, 07:04:23 AM »

Quote from: 12ptdroptine on July 28, 2011, 03:30:24 PM

I bought a Kimber Gold Match. Up until I bought that gun I could never hit the broadside of a barn with a handgnt. I also bought a Ruger SuperRedhawk to go hog hunting with this winter... I cant hit worth a dern wioth the Ruger .. Yet... But the first time I shot the kimber at 25 yds I beat the bullseye out of the target...4 out of 7 touching. I fell in love with it. Did I mention I bought a Kimber? ?

That Kimber will surely kill that hog just as well as that ugly super redhawk. When hog hunting you might want to consider using bonded bullets or maybe Buffalo Bore’s 255 grain hardcast offering at 950fps. Should get the job done with ease.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=214

williamlayton · « **Reply #70 on:** July 30, 2011, 05:13:58 AM »

The slide and frame--if it is forged, not cast---can be had for different prices. The Guts and the cost of fitting the pieces and maching of them is the cost.
If it is worth the money to you, you can have a weapon that is worth passing on to your next generation with pride.
That discounts the fact that you may be around to pass it on if the situation turns serious.
Blessings

Dixiejack · « **Reply #71 on:** July 30, 2011, 06:33:48 AM »

In my last post I said I found a Kimber dealer close by. Earlier in the week I was out rambling the back roads and stopped by a place that advertised archery equipment for sell. I parked my $45,000.00 GMC 4WD truck with a Bose audio system. I called my wife on the built in cell phone to tell her I would be late and went in the store.

I walked in past about 50 bows hanging up and spotted a glass case full of handguns. The owner had 7 or 8 Kimbers on display along with a new Remington R1, some Taurus 1911 look-a-likes and a few Colt's 1911's, plus an assortment of revolvers. Naturally the Kimbers were on the top shelf. There was a decal saying he was a stocking Kimber dealer. I'm thinking about the Pro Carry II.

I am heading back over there Monday to look at them Kimbers again. Been looking at their website and now I am trying to make up my mind if I want a full size Kimber or a commander size Kimber. Honestly, I don't see that great of difference between a 5" bbl. and a 4" bbl. I am thinking for an all around pistol (if there is such a thing), the 4" would be the best. More comfortable to carry, and within 25 yds. should be just as accurate as the 5".

Not to make a long story any longer, I would like to get some feedback from you guys who own Kimbers and anyone else who doesn't have the "short ***** syndrome" on your opinion full length or the compact.

Savage · « **Reply #72 on:** July 30, 2011, 07:43:17 AM »

I have Kimbers in all sizes. My favorite is the "Pro Carry". It has the 4" barrel and aluminum frame. It carries like a compact and shoots like a fullsize. I would highly recommend it. It's a little classy for my 70 model $300 Pinto with a quarter in the ash tray for phone calls. Of course I can spend the money I saved on more pistols and ammo!

Savage

Dixiejack · « **Reply #73 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:11:18 AM »

Savage, thanks for your imput. I also have been looking at another model Tactical Pro II that has the night sights, ambi thumb safety, and mag well. When you figure up the extras it equals out in price if you bought the extras and installed them. I wish the frame was all steel.

BTW, I drove a Pinto for 10 years and an A-hole rear ended it one day my wife was driving it. Busted the gas tank. Fortunately it did not blow. The insurance paid me around $400.00 for it. I usually don't brag about what I have, just keeping the post in the spirit of the title.

Savage · « **Reply #74 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:36:44 PM »

Well,------------don't really own a Pinto.
The 4" is my favorite size in the 1911 platform. I think you'll find the aluminum frame quite durable, and a joy to carry. My Pro Carry has about 6k rds through it with no visible wear, other than a few shiny marks on the rails. I have heard that metal magazine followers can damage the frame in the feed ramp area. I used McCormic mags with steel followers for a while before changing them for the plastic NightHawk ones. I couldn't see even a scratch from using the metal followers, but changed them out anyway. I have an all steel Commander as well, but much prefer the 4" Kimber for carry or range work. I'd get the night sights and magwell on the factory gun for sure. They are something you'll likely buy later anyway. The Kimber is a good choice.
Savage

Dixiejack · « **Reply #75 on:** July 30, 2011, 02:06:21 PM »

Thanks for the advice. Loved the Pinto analogy

reliquary · « **Reply #76 on:** July 30, 2011, 03:44:02 PM »

My carry piece is a mostly stock stainless Commander .45 that I bought new in 1982. Custom work is limited to Hogues a modest amount of polishing and smoothing the lockwork. I've shot enough that I noticed several years ago that I don't use the sights very much on any handgun at SD range, it just seems to line up on where I'm looking. I've considered opening up the rear sight notch and putting a shotgun bead on it just to see how it works...

This gun has had several thousand rounds through it and is just as accurate as the two fullsized 1911s I shoot. I carry heavy Silvertips in it.

Get whatever you're comfy with and get good with it.

reliquary · « **Reply #77 on:** July 30, 2011, 03:46:57 PM »

Should read: "...Hogues AND a modest...

Dixiejack · « **Reply #78 on:** July 30, 2011, 04:36:41 PM »

There is nothing any more dangerous and useless than handling a gun you don't know how to use proficiently.

robert4570 · « **Reply #79 on:** July 31, 2011, 09:53:32 AM »

Quote from: woods on July 24, 2011, 08:58:59 AM

I'm a tool and die maker and I know the cost of machineing parts for handguns and the amount of time in manufacturing them. It isn't cheap at 40.00 an hour. So if you figure 400 as a price tag it took the manufacturer about 10 hours to make your handgun. Thats not takeing into mind the seller is makeing a profit. I helped build a couple ejection plastic mould's for one manufacturer they estimated they could get about 50,000 frames out of it before we would be reworking it. Said it was just like stamping out tuperware. Now you take a higher end handgun like kimber that is machined from a casting averages 1,200.00 now you are paying for a machine to individually carve out each frame. Everyone uses some stamping and molding process for certian parts thats how you keep cost down. All in all what I'm saying is you are paying for someone to do the work. Me being one of those people thank you for keeping me working. As for which one you purchase I like the one's that say MADE IN AMERICA.

woods

Well said Woods ,
I own a several 1911's with couple of them being the so called "high dollar 1911's", one a Dan Wesson VBOB which cost $1600 , which was more than what I intended on spending . In my opinion , craftmanship can not be mass produced and especially in the Phillipines, China or Brazil . Sure they all look similar and go bang every time but its not the same , to me . Ruger, S&W and a whole slough of others are building quality 1911's , no doubt . But if you're ever had an Ed Brown or even a Dan Wesson you'll appreciate the quality .
I'm not well off by any means , I'm a line man for a communcations company and am not earning a 6 figure income, I simply save up for the purchase . The old adage holds true, "You get what you pay for" is something I learned the hard way and not thru guns but optics. Cheap scopes have cost me dearly on a couple of hunts so much so that I took them off at camp and put a hammer to them POS . High dollar firearms may be priced out of reach for some , but thats ok buy the best that you can afford and enjoy it.
Last but not least , buy American made when ever possible because the job you save could be your own.
Envy is at the root of socialism.
Robert

jcn59 · « **Reply #80 on:** August 04, 2011, 10:42:21 AM »

Are RIA and Springfield frames made at the same factory in the Phillipines? How about Kimbers? Who all buys their frames from Pine Tree Castings or whatever Ruger calls their casting business. How about Taurus? Who all do they sell their frames to? Do you always get what you pay for if it costs a bit more? I guess the answer is "Usually".

simplicity · « **Reply #81 on:** August 05, 2011, 11:26:22 AM »

Ahmen on buying american made Being a machinist myself. Having worked on weatherby, bushmaster, colt, saber, and numerous military arms. Though i just make turbine parts now filling japans orders.

bluedog6 · « **Reply #82 on:** August 08, 2011, 03:29:33 PM »

I agree, buy american, be it car,truck gun,or anything if at all possible. When buying a handgun price should not be the only deciding factor. While the cheaper gun may shoot as well,will it do so for the next 30-40 years,most won't.There is where your value is.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #83 on:** August 09, 2011, 04:24:21 AM »

if you want the ultimate in a consealed carry gun look at the kimber cdps. I had a 3inch cdp and still have the 4 inch gun with an officers grip frame which is my favorite ccw gun. I also have a comander dized pro carry and its a great all around gun Just about as consealable and easier to control for accuracy work. Its the gun that sits by my bed stand. I had it fitted with trinium sights for night work. I have a 5 inch gold match too and use it mostly for competition shooting. For the most part the two cdp i had would shoot right along side the gold match but took alot more consentration to shoot groups with. Again the procarry is as shootable as the gold match but mine is just a tad less accurate. I say that but for grins ive shot it in a couple ppc matches and have taken first place is the masters catagory with it so its plenty accurate.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #84 on:** August 09, 2011, 04:59:54 AM »

Quote from: gs50401 on June 07, 2011, 01:02:07 PM

!911's are like Harley Davidson motorcycles. A lot of history, a bunch of aftermarket stuff, a little quirky and can be spendy.

Yep, and it goes further - when you buy a Harley you're getting membership into The Club.

On the other hand, competitor's bikes outperform Harleys in just about every measurable performance category, and have since the early 1970s. Can the same be said of the 1911 vs others?

williamlayton · « **Reply #85 on:** August 09, 2011, 05:56:08 AM »

Hummmmmm. Once again, are we comparing apples to apples?
I remember when he was young, Paul Neuman driving around LA in a VW---with a Porche engine installed in it.
I have a Colt---well several---that have no resemblance to a stock Colt other than the roll markings.
Makes it better? Well, that is the attempt. Make it prettier ? I am not sure that it does other than putting some fancy stocks on them. I just love fancy stocks.
I think it makes the weapon more reliable and will perform better over a given length of time than stock parts. Besides that, what I have done to them makes it MINE, the way I want it; I don't have to adjust to the gun, I adjusted the gun to ME.
I like 'em gussied up on the inside.
Blessings

1911crazy · « **Reply #86 on:** August 09, 2011, 04:09:41 PM »

Browsing lately i'm seeing used kimbers and wilson combat 1911's for the first time ever. These get put in a different used case than the other 1911's. The standard used 1911 case is on the empty side. This kind of tells me the good finds are selling out fast while the expensive ones are sitting there.

I like my new Auto Ordnance army WW2 1911a1 manufactured right here in Wooster,Mass. But i also like my chinese norinco 1911a1, my made in brazil springfield armory 1911a1 and my made in the use older springfield armory. I don't put all my eggs in one basket nor is the american made stuff the best. My 3 made in the usa 1911's from the 70's, the 80's and the 90's proved that they didn't cycle properly.

Recently i took my 90's SA (after i fixed it) my norinco and my new '05 SA 1911's to the range to test fire them all (3). I had one ragged hole in the target at 25yds with a few flyers but the ragged hole was about 3 1/2" ragged round. I don't need an expensive 1911 to do that.

I've only owned japanese rocket motorcycles and swedish dirtbikes. I never had to push one yet in the past. I want the best quality my american made dollar can buy and its not made in the usa i'm sure. Yup many years ago that little 350cc yamaha took over the dirt tracks. I had a yamaha 500cc V- 4 cylinder two stroke that weren't allowed in the country as new bikes, they were brought in from canada as used bikes but they were brand new. Any one ever hear of King Kenny Roberts??? I never rode it i sold it to the guy i worked with who helped me and my son work on our bikes for my cost of $3.5k its worth about 15k today and maybe more. I wanted to thank him in someway.

1911crazy · « **Reply #87 on:** August 09, 2011, 04:26:47 PM »

Btw: My next brand new 1911a1 will be the ruger sr1911 when i get a chance to get one.

Jim_Ole_Timer · « **Reply #88 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:13:53 PM »

Quote from: 1911crazy on August 09, 2011, 04:26:47 PM

Btw: My next brand new 1911a1 will be the ruger sr1911 when i get a chance to get one.

I saw an ad from Cabela's couple days ago for 9-- something, almost a grand. Seems a little high?

Dixiejack · « **Reply #89 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:41:28 PM »

I have a Ruger sr1911 on order for $600.00 plus tax. That was August 10th, 2011.

Today is Nov. 20th, 2011 and I am still waiting on that Ruger. I am beginning to believe it's not worth the wait.