Signal Cannon- Identification

[marcus5aurelius]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to the forum and have been interested in signal cannons/thundermugs for quite some time. I purchased a small signal cannon recently and frankly know very little about it. I'm a complete novice, but it looked cool and I purchased it for a pretty good price. It looked very old and the man I purchased it from said he picked it up from an antique store many years ago. I see some antique cannons sell for thousands of dollars at auction and would like to have your opinion on trying to identify it's relative age and value. It has no markings whatsoever and appears to have been fired (based on rust from the touch hole). I really don't mind if it's valuable or a cheap knockoff, I really just want to know if I should be firing it or keeping it in a vault somewhere 

I have some pictures here: http://s559.photobucket.com/albums/ss33/mikepatty4/shotguns%20and%20cannpn/?action=view&current=shotguns032.jpg&







but can take some more if necessary. The signal cannon has no markings whatsoever. Someone tried to "repair" it by nailing a piece of wood to keep the cannon stationary but after I purchased it the cheap nails that he used to position it bent in transit and I have removed that piece. Any information at all would be much appreciated! Of all the forums I have visited and research I have done, this has been by far the single most knowledgeable. Thanks in advance!
Mark

[Double D]

I see a cast iron yard ornament that should not be fired....

[dan610324]

whats the dimensions ??

yeah you are right dd
the bore seems to be quite large

most important is bore diameter and diameter where the vent is

[marcus5aurelius]

I see a cast iron yard ornament that should not be fired....

Are you referencing firing projectiles or blank charges such as it's intended use?

How old do you think it is?

I'll measure it right now.

Bore: .75in
OD at muzzle: 1.75in (narrows to 1.5in)
OD at breech: 2.5in
OAL: Approximately 14in

[little seacoast]

Hi Marcus, welcome to the board.  Your cannon appears to be a cast iron unlined barrel that does not meet current safety standards for firing with projectiles. Personally I wouldn't fire it with salute charges either since a barrel rupture is quite possible- unknown quality of casting and visible defects.  It will make a nice desk or bookcase ornament, enjoy it for what it is. 
Best Regards, LS

[marcus5aurelius]

Hi Marcus, welcome to the board.  Your cannon appears to be a cast iron unlined barrel that does not meet current safety standards for firing with projectiles. Personally I wouldn't fire it with salute charges either since a barrel rupture is quite possible- unknown quality of casting and visible defects.  It will make a nice desk or bookcase ornament, enjoy it for what it is. 
Best Regards, LS

Thanks for your reply! Is there any way to identify its origin, date of manufacture, or value? I won't shoot it, but I'm interested if there's any history behind it. Could it have been used as a ship's signal cannon or do you think it was produced for it's intended use as a "yard ornament" 

[Rayfan87]

Not much you can find out without any markings. I'd clean it up a bit and put it on a shelf.

[Double D]

Absent markings as Ray says there isn't much you can do to identify it, unless the maker came along and says "hey that's mine!"

Saying it is a lawn ornament is a bit harsh.  But it is cast iron and has no barrel liner so it should not be shot, even with blanks.

I doubt it was a signal gun either.   The carriage just isn't fitted out to be a shipboard gun.

[marcus5aurelius]

You're right, originally I thought it was old because my research I found this:
http://landandseacollection.com/id286.html

However upon closer inspection when it arrived, it looks relatively "newer" based on the type of screws used and after I cleaned the rusty colored muzzle it looked like it had faint lines from machining. So maybe it was just created with the intent of decoration?  If I needed to sell it what do you think it would be worth? Scrap value? Is there any market for it?

[Double D]

Why sell it.  Check with our sponsors and see if one of them will put a smooth bore liner in it for you and then shoot it.

[marcus5aurelius]

Why sell it.  Check with our sponsors and see if one of them will put a smooth bore liner in it for you and then shoot it.

To fund an upgrade 

Thanks for the advice

[Rayfan87]

Or just clean it up a bit and put it on a shelf. Sand down the wheels a bit, repaint them, and do the same with the barrel. It wouldn't look half bad with a little elbow grease.

[Cat Whisperer]

Why sell it.  Check with our sponsors and see if one of them will put a smooth bore liner in it for you and then shoot it.

To fund an upgrade 

Thanks for the advice

marcus - WELCOME to the board!

as a friend of mine says often: 'guns are meant to be bought.'  Note the empahsis on the PERIOD.

I have fragments of a signal cannon that was apparently abused - cracks developed internally.  It was bronze, not as brittle as CI.  You're making the right decision.  Make it right before you fire it.

[dan610324]

Ive seen exact that model somewhere earlier but cant remember where
I remember it because of the odd shaped cascabel
Im quite sure that its quite recently produced , maybe 20-30 years old or so

[keith44]

it looks alot like my Traditions model.  I would not shoot it as is, but a smooth bore liner, reduce the bore to .69 cal would make a nice shooter, with some slight carrage work.  And with a bit of cleaning and paint...

[marcus5aurelius]

it looks alot like my Traditions model.  I would not shoot it as is, but a smooth bore liner, reduce the bore to .69 cal would make a nice shooter, with some slight carrage work.  And with a bit of cleaning and paint...

Looks beautiful. So with all of your advice, I think I'm going to strip it down and refinish it. It'll be a fun project at the very least. I have no problem doing that as long as it's not destroying any value (no real value to destroy  )

[dan610324]

just an small reminder to all you out there
today we talk about the one cal rule
from the beginning (mid 1600 I think it was) the 1 cal rule was just for bronze cannons
at that time they said that an cast iron cannon should hold minimum 1,25 - 1,5 cal surrounding the breech

ok the quality on the castings was lower than today , but still it give you an idea about safety for cannons

[keith44]

I like being overly cautious, and I have all my appendages to prove it.  I think the one cal rule along with the seamless liners rule are a good idea.

[RocklockI]

Personally I would not sleeve the tube , that will cost as much as a new cannon .

If it is not safe to shoot and I have no idea whether it is or not ....just make a decorator of it .
We all have some ..early attempts that sit of a shelf .

I like the wood 'weathering ' I wouldn't fix it up ,it just is what it is ....whatever that maybe ?

Get yourself a reliable cannon from a sponsor and shoot the dickins out of it KNOWING it will not ...let go ! 

"Guessing about a thing you really ought to know!"(Led Zeppelin) NOT recomended

Welcome to the board this is the place to learn ....believe me !

Gary