Author Topic: READ The Second After (Read 10541 times)

reliquary · « **Reply #60 on:** July 31, 2011, 04:14:20 AM »

I grew up without running water in the house until elementary school years. We washed faces, feet, 'pits & bottoms...in that order... every day with drawn water and a bowl or "foot-tub". Baths in a #3 tub on Saturdays until about '47. Guys used baking soda and talcum powder for deodorant. Girls had some kind of roll-on or cologne.

One of the relatives came back from WW2 and built a field-expedient shower from a 55-gal barrel on a platform with sprinkler head coming out the bottom. Filled from a shallow well, warmed during the day, used in the evening, refilled for the next day.

Ahhh, the good old days...when were they, exactly?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #61 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:11:18 AM »

Manny that was pretty much what many did , my grand parents did such until the late 1960's . To be honest they ate natural foods . They didn't stink so much

Bugflipper · « **Reply #62 on:** August 02, 2011, 12:23:45 PM »

An emp fries circuit boards. It is dependent on the range and power of the pulse to determine what it can damage. Cars and planes are at more risk because the wiring harnesses act like an antenna, channeling the electricity to the cpu. Other components that are in danger are the electronic ignition and newer alternators with chips in them. As for what cars are effected, post 73' generally have electronic ignition. Early 80's tend to have fuel injection so a computer was generally used to control the flow rate. Most 60's and earlier cars are safe as long as the are carburated(not many mechanical fuel injected, but they would be safe), have not been converted to electronic ignition and have an alternator without a chip.

As for everything being fried, it just depend how strong and how close. The item would not have to be plugged in or in use if the pulse was strong enough. This is no longer science fiction. This technology has been researched for decades. It is a viable threat today and will be worse in the future as they continue to build a better mousetrap.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #63 on:** August 03, 2011, 02:16:38 AM »

I have read that condensers in point type ignition systems can be effected as can diodes in some older stuff. It is recommended to keep spares in a steel box.

illini warrior · « **Reply #64 on:** August 03, 2011, 03:03:17 AM »

Quote from: blind ear on July 30, 2011, 02:53:52 AM

I read One Secound After. It is too full of blunt harsh realities to be "fun" reading. It made me cry. I think it should be mandatory reading for all of our school systems, congressmen and every parent. Like that would ever happen.

It was interesting enough to keep me into it until I finished it. I read at about 1/3 normal average speed and I got it read in three nights and a couple of hours extra.

If you want some realities give The Road by Cormac McCarthy ...... he doesn't pull any punches ...... they made the book into a movie of the same name .....
He also wrote No Country for Old Men, All the Pretty Horses, Child of God, and The Crossing

blind ear · « **Reply #65 on:** August 03, 2011, 03:27:31 AM »

Quote from: illini warrior on August 03, 2011, 03:03:17 AM

Quote from: blind ear on July 30, 2011, 02:53:52 AM
I read One Secound After. It is too full of blunt harsh realities to be "fun" reading. It made me cry. I think it should be mandatory reading for all of our school systems, congressmen and every parent. Like that would ever happen.

It was interesting enough to keep me into it until I finished it. I read at about 1/3 normal average speed and I got it read in three nights and a couple of hours extra.

If you want some realities give The Road by Cormac McCarthy ...... he doesn't pull any punches ...... they made the book into a movie of the same name .....
He also wrote No Country for Old Men, All the Pretty Horses, Child of God, and The Crossing

I had seen "The Road" before I read "One secound After." The latter had a broader spectrun of cause and effect. ear

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #66 on:** August 10, 2011, 06:49:59 AM »

The mind set the town had was survive until help comes. I think in such a scenario the mind set should be moving to a sustainable local economy. I believe the resources were miss used because of the mind set. How could the towns resources have been used to move to a sustainable local economy?

In the book almost a year later the military drives in with a truck load of MREs. Only 20% of people survived. It's a fairy tale ending to a novel. I think that in another year only 20% of the survivors would be left or a military from a foreign power would roll in.

teddy12b · « **Reply #67 on:** August 10, 2011, 07:15:45 AM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on August 10, 2011, 06:49:59 AM

The mind set the town had was survive until help comes. I think in such a scenario the mind set should be moving to a sustainable local economy. I believe the resources were miss used because of the mind set. How could the towns resources have been used to move to a sustainable local economy?

In the book almost a year later the military drives in with a truck load of MREs. Only 20% of people survived. It's a fairy tale ending to a novel. I think that in another year only 20% of the survivors would be left or a military from a foreign power would roll in.

I'm not sure the mindset was to hope for help to arrive so much as just being normal American sheep who were completely unprepared for that kind of catastrophe. Once they figured out what the situation was I thought they did a pretty good job rebuilding their community based on real hands on skills and begining to have real security for local farmers. The natural resources were absolutely wasted because they town was so unprepared. Towards the end of the book the main character even comments on how hard it is to hunt for food because every furry four legger has already been shot regardless of the hunting season.

I really don't think that a 20% survival rate is that unreasonable for that area of the country. Like they said in the book, the population around the cornbelt will have the best chances as long as the crops have not been harvested yet.

jcn59 · « **Reply #68 on:** August 10, 2011, 07:46:49 AM »

Living in the rural northern part of the midwest, in a county of 15,000, I would think that our lakes, the fish they provide, our crops, and the limited amount of wild game could easily nourish us for a year. There is at least some "sense of community" everywhere up here. We have more guns than people, and most everyone here knows which end the bullet comes out of. Still, I would see looters and pirates as being a greater problem than starvation.

Would it take a whole year for a foreign power to come here and exploit us if we had a nationwide disaster that knocked out the power grid and transportation? Don't think for a minute that they would be trying to win our hearts and minds with gifts of food and love.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #69 on:** August 10, 2011, 07:58:53 AM »

Unchecked polution and waste from war or disaster can ruin lakes and rivers .

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #70 on:** August 10, 2011, 09:43:13 AM »

Teddy, you are right about them being unprepared. I think it would be good to have a discussion about what they did right as well as what they could have done better.

One thing I think they did right was soup using bones. Bone broth supplies a lot of minerals. We cook our bones so long you can chew them up and eat them. Most people would throw them away or give them to the dogs.

jcn59 · « **Reply #71 on:** August 10, 2011, 09:59:08 AM »

This thread inspired me to read the book and also "Patriots". I've enjoyed everyone's input.

I never thought this kind of scenario was even possible UNTIL I watched the American public elect that socialistic A$$ that is now of all things "commander in chief". God help us! It's imperative we vote him out ASAP.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #72 on:** August 10, 2011, 10:16:20 AM »

I hope more people are inspired to read “Patriots” so we can discuss that book when this one burns out.

teddy12b · « **Reply #73 on:** August 10, 2011, 10:38:31 AM »

The scary part of the book Patriots is how the disaster gets started (financial collapse). It's a little bit easier to see that happening than an EMP attack, but that's just me. Watching the market today really makes me think of how Patriots gets started.

As far as a discussion on what they did right & wrong in One Second After, I think that'd be a great idea.

What they did wrong:
-They didn't have any supplies of life critical medicine on hand. Before listening to the book, I never would have thought about having a couple years supply of diabetic medicine on hand, because I don't have anything like that. Now, I have a variety of fish meds for things like amoxicillan and so on.
-Lack of food at the house tucked away. For a couple hundred bucks you could have hundreds of pounds of white rice that'll last 30 years. For a small investment at least you know you have something to eat that'll keep you alive if nothing else.
-Water purification. For $50 you can buy a katadyn water filter capable of purifying 400 gallons of water. Why wouldn't you have one of those on hand.
-Lack of guns & ammo. Even though the main character did have some guns at the house what little he had he couldn't really use for much other than small game hunting. At a minimum I don't think it's a bad idea to drop $100 on 22lr bulk packs of 550rds that would put 2,75 rounds of ammo at the house if the packs were even $20 each. Add a high powered scoped rifle and 500 rounds and you've got something to reach out and take big game with.

What they did right:
-Recognized what was happening around them, and kept as reasonably calm as possible. When incidents occured they did their best at maintaining fair justice with trials.
-They didn't automatically just kill their neighbors and they tried to absorb all of the out of towners who were now refugees in their town.
-Communication. They did the best that they could with what they had on hand. The board at the courthouse was a way to let everyone know what was happening and how to help each other.

There's more to it, but maybe that's a start.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #74 on:** August 10, 2011, 10:45:57 AM »

One of the best/important things they did was put up a news board. Also setting up a security force and training was good. The meds will be tuff for some as many have a short shelf life. Having bleach on hand is a good pratice also.

reliquary · « **Reply #75 on:** August 11, 2011, 06:39:16 AM »

There's a good discussion about PATRIOTS a little further down in this forum. No need to start a new one, just add to the old one, maybe?

I've become a "voice crying in the wilderness" around here: ya gotta have food, ammo, and emergency supplies stored. Even if you just have bulk grain stuff on hand, it'll keep you alive.

Buy beans, flour, etc, keep it in the freezer for a couple of weeks to kill any little beasties in it, let it defrost and then store it in snaplid containers with oxygen and moisture absorbers. Shelflife is a couple of years. We use ours; if we don't use it fast enough, we donate it to a shelter and buy new.

A couple of good .22s, maybe one scoped rifle and one pistol, and 3-4 bricks of ammo stashed in several locations=a real comfort for basic survival needs. A good hi-cap rifle such as a mini-14, an AR, an AK, or even an SKS and a bunch of inexpensive Russian ammo is another level of comfort.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #76 on:** August 11, 2011, 07:02:14 AM »

So far all my plans and preparations are for my families survival. I never thought of trying to save a town of 5,000. It is a completely different mind set.

When someone suggested taking food from the survivalist in the mountains it was decided to let them have what they saved. They would be more valuable teaching the town about survival. Most states and cities already have anti-hording laws allowing them to take any supplies you may have saved for your family. I wander how many would decide to take from the survivalist rather than work with them.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #77 on:** August 11, 2011, 07:46:38 AM »

That may cause a show down in some places unless it is presented well.

teddy12b · « **Reply #78 on:** August 11, 2011, 12:12:02 PM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on August 11, 2011, 07:02:14 AM

Most states and cities already have anti-hording laws allowing them to take any supplies you may have saved for your family.

Do you know what states specifically? This has my attention.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #79 on:** August 11, 2011, 12:27:51 PM »

Look at Teamnelson's anti-hording law thread in this forum.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #80 on:** August 12, 2011, 01:57:36 PM »

Quote from: reliquary on August 11, 2011, 06:39:16 AM

There's a good discussion about PATRIOTS a little further down in this forum. No need to start a new one, just add to the old one, maybe?

I agree. I revived the tread a few months ago and hope to see it revived again.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #81 on:** August 22, 2011, 03:24:34 AM »

I said before that I thought they miss used their resources. The biggest lost opportunity was because of the looting. I do not store canned food like others do because I don't eat canned food. I do keep fresh vegetables around. I always keep a lot of garlic, potatoes and squash around. The last two years I successfully planted garlic and potatoes from the store ( farmers markets, I don't buy food in stores). When the people looted the stores they wasted the valuable resources. If you always keep a few squash around you have enough seeds to start a sustainable garden. Maybe it would work for cucumbers, tomatoes, peppers or some of the beans.

I don't think anything can be done about the looting. The looting would be done before anybody knew what was happening. But if you keep a good supply of fresh vegetables on hand and know how to turn them into seeds you would be way ahead of the game.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #82 on:** August 22, 2011, 03:39:22 AM »

Seed is good but time would be aginst you at certian times of the year. Emg. food be it freeze dried or canned is to get you thru. until other arrangements can be made , like a garden or developing a way to recieve food from the out side . There are many food sources around , rivers , lakes and sea are all good until they become full of chemicals. Even dirt can be contamnated and useless. Even water can become tainted . It has been a very long time since large numbers of Americand starved to death because of an event.
One should also consider the carrying capacity of the land . With trucks bring in food each day from outside the area it might be hard for some to realize how few some areas can feed with out shipments of food comming each day. I would suggest Las Vegas might be a bad location in a very bad event.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #83 on:** August 22, 2011, 03:56:09 AM »

We use 75 lbs of rice a year. We buy it all in Dec. when the new crop rice comes in from Thailand. We can eat the squash and save the seeds. I would think the looters in the book would throw the seeds away like they always do. With a green house or hot box we could grow a garden all year. We save seeds from our heirloom tomatoes every year. You could do the same with store bought tomatoes, and still eat them. I would save the seeds from the water melons if my wife didn't always buy the seedless ones. I have some dried beans around. We do not use them much but I think we should. I want to see if store bought dyed beans will sprout. Oh I keep a lot of sprouting seeds. They are a good source of fresh vegetables year round.

Just trying to give some people ideas about how to make things go farther in case something happens.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #84 on:** August 22, 2011, 04:10:04 AM »

I like your ideas but a supply of caned goods may make a difference , more so if you must move due to fire or other causes. I don't think anyone idead will see those involved thru. It will take quick thinking people. In the book they didn't force people to give up their stash of food unless they took rations from the group. There would be a very fine line there I would think.

reliquary · « **Reply #85 on:** August 22, 2011, 10:55:19 AM »

If we had the EOTW-style disaster at the worst time, it would happen in the fall or early winter. The looming colder weather would prevent most crops from having enough time to grow and produce. Even if a person had stored seeds, it would be spring before seeds such as corn and beans could go into the ground and then another ~60 days before they would produce a crop. Some things such as turnips would produce over the fall and winter in my area.

Therefore, a family needs at least 90 days and preferably 120 days of stored supplies on hand in addition to the survival seed bank.

There is only about a 3-day supply of food in a community's stores, and another 7-10 day supply in the distribution system going to those local stores. Even if the community was able to salvage (loot) everything from its stores, and then strictly ration it, it wouldn't last a month. I don't see any way around stocking up on canned/dried/dehydrated supplies. We store bulk products as well as daily-use and emergency food and MREs.

teddy12b · « **Reply #86 on:** August 22, 2011, 11:37:39 AM »

Just my two cents, but the best bang for the buck of survival food is white rice. I'm on a budget so if I want bulk, I have to get what I can, for what I've got to pay. My choice is the superpails from beprepared.com. I know I could save a few bucks if I bought the rice and sealed it all up myself, but I want to know that it was all done right and packaged by someone who's done it a hundred times. The extra cost was worth it considering the alternative of me possibly screwing up my families means of survival. As a supplement to the buckets of rice, I also have a lot of MRE's that I bought from armygear.net. At one time I could get two brand new production MRE cases shipped to my door for less than $5 a piece. I figure rice for two meals plus one MRE per day per person, everything else is a bonus. Another good food to stock up on are the 10# bags of Krusteze pancake mix that go for about $7 a piece at Sams club. Just add water and you've got pancakes to use as slices of bread.

It really is amazing just how much food you can get your hands on if you shop well.

$7 Krusteze: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=157373&navAction=
$56 White Rice Superpail: http://beprepared.com/product.asp?pn=FS P230
$52.49 (per 12) MRE's: http://www.armygear.net/ag/store/00231.html

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #87 on:** August 22, 2011, 12:05:31 PM »

I am not telling anybody not to store canned food. We don't because we don't eat the stuff. If nothing happens it would expire and go to wast. I would like to store home canned food. My wife just loves the freezer and does not want to can. Just suggesting alternatives we use to store food. This winter I am doubling the size of my garden. Next year I plan to can some food myself.

I have a survival seed bank. The food we use potatoes, garlic, shallots and squash are just backups. I consider them free seeds if needed.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #88 on:** September 26, 2011, 08:30:03 AM »

There are still a number of ways I would like to go with this tread. I have been thinking about survival dogs for a few years. I don't have a dog. Never hunted with a dog. But, I think in survival situations dogs can be great assets. The most important role for the dog would be security. Hunting would also be helpful.

In the book there were strong emotions when someone suggested eating dogs. I grew up with beagles and schnauzers. I understand how people love their dogs as family. Still in this book and in Patriots people ended up eating their own pets.

I think in such a survival situation a dog would be vital for security. Still you would be competing with them for food. I think a small breed good for hunting would be ideal. Store a good quantity of dog food as you would people food. I think if the SHTF I would rather have a Jack Russel terrier than a Great Dane. So I think choosing the right breed of dog is an important survival prep.

What do you think? What breed makes a good survival dog? How would you use them? What would you feed them in a survival situation? Would your dog be an asset or liability?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #89 on:** September 26, 2011, 09:08:30 AM »

When those who went to the north and south pole carried dogs they used them for sled dogs then food. I have no problem using what protien is aval.
I don't think one breed sticks out really. Maybe a mixed breed the Hinzes 57 type. Not so small it wouldn't be a meal nor to large it would eat all your stash. A quiet dog would be a plus in many places . Dogs react , they learn to react to get reward. In many cases it becomes a breed trait. Pointing a bird is an example. That said a good survival dog will learn what gets the reaction/reward it seeks .