REMINGTON 700 SPS ACCURACY

[dks7895]

I'm only iterested in accurate rifles.  That's why I'm not interested in the off brands and antique designs.

So anything other than a Remington is considered "off brand"?  You need to be more diversified.  Thinking that Remington is the only manufacturer capable of making an accurate rifle is ludacris.  Every man is entitled to his opinion, but you constantly posting this hog wash is getting old.  The OP was getting poor groups with a Remington 700 SPS and was asking for advise.  Once again you manage to completely derail the discussion.

My apologies 30063030223357, as most of the others have suggested... bed and float it.  If that doesn't work, sell it to Swampman.

[Swampman]

I gave him the correct advise.

[30063030223357]

I didn't mean to start a war here! But just to add to the fire, i did free float the barrel on this gun. Shot a 1.3" group with the free floated barrel.This is down from a 2.7" group with the pressure point.  Granted this was just one group, but thats the best this gun has ever shot. Now i have something i can work with. Now i can tailor a load to this gun. I did order a glass bed kit, i'm reading that the glass won't stick to the synthetic stock. Is this true?

[pastorp]

Swampy,

Only in your mind are you right. Your so narrow minded that a horse fly could stand on the bridge of your nose & kick out both eyes with one foot.....you really are eaten up with the stupids....perhaps it would be best for all to just put swampy on ignore.

Regards,

[parkergunshop]

How well Acraglas sticks to synthetic stocks depends on what material is used by the maker.    My experience is that.

Bell and Carlson stocks ok.
MPI ok,
Hogue not so good, need to take a ginder and rougn up the inside of the stock area to be bedded otherwise the material Hogue used is too slick for the Acrugas to stick to well.

My bet is that after glas bedding your Remington will group under 1 inch with good loads.   I would glas bed the first two inches of the barrel in front of the receiver and leave the rest floating.    You have already proven that the pressure point was a bad idea, many of the synthetic stocks are actually weaker than wood and flex more making the use of any pressure point iffy.

[diggler1833]

Been a while since I've been on here.  To answer the original question, you have the answer already.  The plastic stock is flimsy and generally crap.  If you have the finances, bed the barreled action into a decent aftermarket stock and I'd be willing to bet more than just a little that your groups would tighten up a bit.  There are of course many other factors in accuracy in rifles here, but I'd do that one.  The worst problem that I had was a forward scope base screw being too long and putting pressure on the barrel shroud, took me a while to figure out what was giving me fits.

Not all Remingtons are super accurate rifles.  They are my favorite brand, but I'm not oblivious like some others.

[jrchurch254a]

Diggler,

I agree with your post, I too changed out my stock for a Bell and Carlson Medalist and the barrel is free floated.  So with that and the lapping I did with the Tubbs system that rifle is now a tack driver.  Maybe I didnt need to lap the barrel but it didnt hurt (other than the $50 for the Tubbs).  It was a few years ago that I went through the pains of getting my SPS calibrated, so I am not sure what sequence I went through but now it really shoots well with any number of different loads.

[Swampman]

Never lap a barrel unless you wish to ruin it.

Shade tree gunsmithing will not make your Remington shoot better, but it will make it worth less.

[Lloyd Smale]

parker is right. I have a stainless sps in 300 win mag. It was a mediocure shooter when I first got it. I shot 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 with most loads. Bedding and floating got it down to a consistant 1 1/4. I never did like the cheap looking stock so bought a green laminate take off from  700 LS. I  didnt buy it looking for more accuracy just for the looks. Well after bedding and floating that stock the gun shoots man loads into just under an inch. So the stiffer stock did help. I have to agre with swampy on the fire lapping. Ive dont many handguns but never got up the nerve to do a rifle. One of these days ill get one so bad that ill have nothing to loose and give it a try.

How well Acraglas sticks to synthetic stocks depends on what material is used by the maker.    My experience is that.

Bell and Carlson stocks ok.
MPI ok,
Hogue not so good, need to take a ginder and rougn up the inside of the stock area to be bedded otherwise the material Hogue used is too slick for the Acrugas to stick to well.

My bet is that after glas bedding your Remington will group under 1 inch with good loads.   I would glas bed the first two inches of the barrel in front of the receiver and leave the rest floating.    You have already proven that the pressure point was a bad idea, many of the synthetic stocks are actually weaker than wood and flex more making the use of any pressure point iffy.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have NEVER had to take less on trade for a gun because it was floated and bedded and unless you told the buyer hed never know you firelapped it either.

Never lap a barrel unless you wish to ruin it.

Shade tree gunsmithing will not make your Remington shoot better, but it will make it worth less.

[Swampman]

Floating and bedding indicates a problem.  Nobody wants to buy a problematic firearm.

[diggler1833]

Like some others, I wont shoot a bolt action until after I've restocked it with a better stock, bedded the action, and worked the trigger down.  I might be "shade tree", but my work has yet to result in an inaccurate or malfunctioning firearm.  Resale is not on my list of priorities, but I'd be willing to bet I'd get more out of my rifle that has been worked on and sits in a McMillan stock than a stock rifle sitting in a craptastic plastic stock.

I look at it the same as my car, why pay someone else when you know you can do the job right yourself.  I've seen professional bedding work, it hasn't looked any different than what I can produce now.  The first time I did it, well, it may have looked a little ugly, but it worked.

Not a huge fan of lapping barrels as it tends to reduce barrel life considerably, but some have had good results with it.  Don't look at it as "snake oil" either.

[Swampman]

As long as you are never gonna sell them, resale value is a moot point.

[Lloyd Smale]

personaly if i was buying and used rifle id be leary of problems. the one id be most leary of is one that is about like new that had less then 50 rounds through it. Even i have bought guns that were duds and knew they werent worth bothering with and traded the off. If i bought a bedded gun id know for one if it were done right i dont have to do it myself. I can think of a better way to spend a couple hours then bedding a gun. Like diggler anymore there floated and bedded before theres even a scope mounted on it. No KNOWEGABLE gun dealer is going to balk one bit at a bedded gun. Heck winchester beds there actions before there even sold to you. I would guess that in most gun shops  a gun that was bedded would be worth the same or even a bit more then one thats not.

[Swampman]

No knowledgeable gun dealer wants a rifle that's been tampered with.  The closer to the way they were when they left the factory the more they are worth.

"As New" or "NIB" are what you looking for.  Shade Tree gunsmithing is ok if you just need a receiver or other parts for projects.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

never mind swampman guys, hes a forum troll who goes around slamming everything thats not a remington. Remingtons have no wrong you know

[Swampman]

At least I don't go from forum to forum trying to sell my wares.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

"scratches head"  Really? i thought you were a remington salesman due to you spewing the remington glory all over the forums. 

[Swampman]

No, I promote the finest you can buy for free.  I want people to enjoy perfection and I'm glad to do it.  Unlike yourself I don't make a living at it.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

If you are accusing me of making a living by shooting muzzle loaders you certainly are wrongly accusing me. There is a thing called proof and for you to come straight out and say i get paid to shoot, is a flat out lie and as far as i am concerned, falsely accusing someone who is innocent.

[Swampman]

Maybe I'm wrong .....   There's no need to stalk me and try to pick a fight.  Sorry the OPs post got derailed.

I've never seen an inaccurate Remington in over 50 years of shooting them.  I can't tell you how to go about making one shoot better than 1/2 MOA because all mine already do that.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

its my job as a moderator to watch the forums and report.

[parkergunshop]

Swampman,

This thread is all about making a stock factory Remington 700 that shot 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards into a shooter.   The original poster has already cut the group size in less than  half by floating the barrel.    Next is glas bedding  which should get the groups down to less than 1 inch.

If all your Remingtons shoot into less than 1/2 inch then you have never owned a Model 7 Remington with it's short light weight barrel, they are a good hunting gun at close range light, handle and carry well, but they are not tack drivers in any sense of the word.

Going back to an earlier post you are so full of it that your vision is impaired along with your judgemental processing abilities.   It must stink there in the swamp.

This is about solving a problem with a Remington, not psychological denial that it never existed in the first place as shipped from the factory.  Because it is not so in your mind does not make it a reality for the rest of us.

I have worked on accurizing too many rifles of all brands to believe that any manufacturer is without fault on occasion.  I have even seen Remingtons where the scope base holes did not align up correctly.

There is even a photo of a Remington Model 7 on another thread that you visited with a cracked front receiver ring at the guard screw hole, that the owner his having trouble getting Remington to address.   Remington is shipping an unsafe gun back to him and not fixing the problem.    If I were the owner I would have this receiver tested to see if the steel in the receiver is defective and/or see if the rockwell hardness is within the limits and not too hard which can cause cracking.   Then I would contact a lawyer and go after Remington if what I suspect is true.

Want to know one reason why the Remington Model 788 when out of production,  I have seen one with all the locking lugs sheared off the bolt, it is very difficult to get good lug bearing contact with a multiple interrupted lug system.   Would you want a bolt back in your face as happened to this shooter?

[Swampman]

Remingtons can have problems caused by abuse and neglect.  Hot loads can ruin any firearm.  Dirt and rust plus shade tree gunsmithing can induce a failure.  No question about that.

I only said that in 50+ years of extensive involvement with Remington products, I've never seen one that was inaccurate.  Any mechanical problems I've seen were owner induced.

[parkergunshop]

Swampman,

Yes, reloaders and shooters often cause themselves problems.

The 788 with the sheared off bolt lugs was due to a combination of issues, poor fitting of the bolt lugs, lack of a back up lug if the main lugs fail and the shooter overloaded his reloads.    This is the only rifle I have ever seen with sheared off bolt lugs, something else normally fails first.  Just after this happened production of the 788 ceased for good.   Most guns are proof tested with high pressure loads, how high most manufacturers want say.


On the Model 7 with the cracked receiver,  the receiver cracked with no damage noted to the barrel, the bolt lugs, the bolt face, the receiver locking recesses  you expect to see one or more of these damaged before the receiver cracked.   The shooter observed no bust cases, no blown primers, no gas blow back from an extreme overload.

Maybe the receiver left the factory cracked due to over torquing the barrel when it was installed?  Maybe the heat treatement made the receiver too brittle?  Maybe the steel has impurities in it to cause weakness?   It is possible to ruin or damage a Model 7 or 700 receiver when removing the factory barrel, barrel removal/installation is more difficult with a round receiver.  I had to do a little repair welding on the right rail on a Model 700 due to action wrench damage. 

Some of the Model 17 Enfields developed cracked receivers due to over tightning of the barrels at installation in combination with being heat treated too hard over Rockwell 50C.

[Lloyd Smale]

swampman ive owned remingtons 700 for 40 years. Got my first one for my 13 birthday. Ive had them in about every model and most calibers they were made in. Dont know the exact number of them ive owned but its been a few. The way ive seen it through the years is remingtons tend to be a bit more accurate then most. What you usually wont get is a remington that shoots over 2 inch for 3 shots. Most will shoot moa with a bit of work on the trigger and some do need bedding and floating. Not to many of the other brands will do it all the time. Ive had many great winchesters but have had a couple lemons. Ive owned probably as many rugers as remingtons and ive had my worse luck with rugers. Id say 50 percent of them wont ever shoot moa. Some were downright terrible. Bedding and floating them didnt allways improve the either. I havent owned may savages because i think there a bit homely but every one ive owned has been accurate. Probably even a touch more so then a remington.

Anyone that claims to have had as much experince with remingtons as you claimed must surely have had more 700s then ive had becasue i no you wouldnt be makng wrote in stone results and recomendations like you give if youd only had tested 2o of so guns. Also i picture you as a handloader as unless your a wealthy man you surely never shot enough factory ammo out of any gun to be considered any kind of athourity on shooting accurately. You may be the first one but ive yet to meat a good shot in person that wasnt a handloader and im talking a dedicated handloader not someone with a lee press  and a couple sets of dies.

there is no way in hell that every remington you had would have done the absolute best it could using factory corelocks.  Just aint happening and the more you dribble on about that the more you loose the little respect you have on here. I know that because id guess im the last one here that still has a bit of respect for you and its wearing thin. Why dont you just back away from this post and start over. There is guys on this fourm that would learn from the experience you have. Id bet in a couple months there would be guys on here that actually respected you and wouldnt that mean more to you theyn winning a silly argument. A man without respcect isnt a man in my book. Id rather be stupid and have people respect me then be the most intelegent guy on here and have no one that respected me.   

Remingtons can have problems caused by abuse and neglect.  Hot loads can ruin any firearm.  Dirt and rust plus shade tree gunsmithing can induce a failure.  No question about that.

I only said that in 50+ years of extensive involvement with Remington products, I've never seen one that was inaccurate.  Any mechanical problems I've seen were owner induced.

[Lloyd Smale]

By the way two of my best freinds are gun store owners. I just happened to have stopped by to visit both of them and asked them what theyd think about a bedded gun on trade. One said he wouldnt want one that came back as supposidly unshot that he would have to sell as used instead of new because it was bedded but if the gun was a couple years old and hed have to sell it as used said that it wouldnt decrease the value but to him it wouldnt increase it either. He gives what the book quotes for a gun. The other said the same thing about a new one. But said to him if the bedding was done properly it sure wouldnt hurt the value and he would even think about give a few bucks more for it because hed be more confident that when he resold it the customer wouldnt be back the next day complaining it wont shoot. Both also said that to be honest i wouldnt pull it apart in the first place so if you ddnt say anything i would know. they said they dont have time to disasemble guns that are brought in on trade. THe one also brought up the point that theres only a couple guys in the area that are gun savoy enough to bed one or even know what bedding is and he knew me and the other couple well enough to know that they would stick him with a turd. Heck hes a ruger nut and i could probably bring in a gun with bent barrel that would shoot as well as most of his rugers anyway

[parkergunshop]

Two advantages for the Savage 110 based action regardless what else you may think of them.  And as Lloyd said they are very accurate as factory rifles go.

1. Minimum headspace contributes to accuracy and long case life.   They simply put a minimum headspace guage in the chamber, screw the barrel up tight, screw down and lock the barrel lock nut in place.

2. Bolt lug contact in the receiver top and bottom lug bearing areas.   The bold head is separate from the bolt body and  is attached with a dowel that the firing pin passes through,  that allows the bolt head to flex into alignment with the receiver bearing areas.    Savage bolt lugs are also somewhat larger than on a Remington.

Savage copied the round bar stock receiver of the Remington to save on material and labor costs.  But also found many other ways to also reduce costs and be competitive in the business.

[Swampman]

I seek no respect, as the Bible says we shouldn't respect men.  I simply lay the facts out and folks can do what they want to with them.  If you can't shoot a sub-MOA group with a stock Model 700 sporter with factory ammo you should consider golf.

[Buckskins & Black Powder]

humans make error as do machines. To say that every rifle remington makes is a gem with no problems is called plain stupidity.