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Offline XD40SC

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For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« on: June 14, 2011, 10:32:28 AM »
How to Retire on $60,000 a Year



by Charlie Farrell
Wednesday, April 20, 2011

 
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If you're a middle income family, you might be wondering how much money you're going to need to retire. Let's take a look at a 66-year-old couple that's been earning $60,000 a year and see what the numbers tell us.
Social Security
If you've been earning about $60,000 a year and want to retire at your full retirement age of 66, your current Social Security benefit would be about $1,500 a month, or $18,000 a year. Now if you're married, your spouse will basically collect at least half of this amount ($9,000), even if your spouse never worked. That means your estimated combined Social Security benefit at age 66 today would be about $27,000.
If you're getting $27,000 in Social Security benefits and want to retire on $60,000, you need to somehow make up the other $33,000. The only way to do that is to live off the returns on your retirement savings (unless you happen to have a pension, which most people don't).
So at age 66, how much money would you need to have saved to produce $33,000 a year in distributions and not run a big risk of depleting your savings?
Well, there's no precise answer to this question because financial market returns are so volatile. But from studying history, we can get a reasonable sense of what it will take.
A good estimate is that a portfolio can support inflation-adjusted distributions of between 4% and 5% per year, depending on market conditions. So if you're unlucky and retire during a bear market, you might be stuck at 4%. It you're a little more fortunate and financial returns are positive, then you could probably do 5%.
• The reality is that over your retirement years, you'll have good and bad market cycles. So sometimes you'll need to drop your distribution to 4% to get through a rough market, and sometimes you can bump it to 5% in better times.
That means to produce $33,000 of inflation-adjusted distributions, you would need somewhere between $660,000 and $825,000 in retirement savings.
• A 5% distribution on $660,000 gets you $33,000, and a 4% distribution on $825,000 gets you $33,000.
Now that might seem like a lot of money, but it's about right. And the main reason you need so much is because of inflation. If inflation runs at 3% for the next 25 years, your initial distribution would need to grow from $33,000 to about $66,000. Well, if you're taking out $66,000 a year, you can see that even a $660,000 portfolio probably won't last too long.
If you don't think you'll have that much saved, then take whatever amount you think you'll have saved by age 66, and multiply it by .04, to get a sense of the low range of your distributions, and then by .05, to get a sense of the higher range of your distributions.
For instance, let's assume you think you'll have $350,000 saved by age 66. Well, if you multiply $350,000 by .04, you'll get $14,000, which would be your annual distribution at 4%. If you multiply it by .05, you'll get $17,500, which would be your annual distribution at 5%. Add those numbers to your Social Security benefit, and you have a rough estimate of how much income you'll have to live on in retirement.
If you don't think Social Security will be around, then take Social Security out of your calculations and run the estimates just based off your savings. Now you'll see why Social Security is so important. Without it, you'd need somewhere between $1.2 million and $1.5 million just to produce $60,000 of retirement income.
Bottom Line
Even middle income families will need sizable nest eggs to maintain their lifestyles in retirement.


Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 10:36:58 AM »
Good post , that said I doubt most will maintain their life style . If you pick up your health care that you may have been getting where you worked ............................. a new car or big repair .................
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline XD40SC

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 10:45:59 AM »
I know it's extremely difficult. Especially now. If one starts young, it may be obtainable. Try not to touch your savings, if possible. Suzzie Orman suggests to never touch your retirement.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 10:48:36 AM »
That's a very well written article. Thanks!

Offline magooch

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 03:43:57 AM »
There's just one problem with the theory and that is that now days, you had better not count on making even 4 percent off the stock market.  You'd be lucky not to lose half your investment in a bad year and when the bad year is over, you don't get to start over; you start with what you have left.  No matter what anyone tries to tell you about stock market averages etc., we're in a new age and we've been there for awhile.

Here's a tip from someone who's been there and done that:  Don't trust financial advisors.  Their advice ain't worth a pinch of crap.  If you're going to fool around in the stock market, you'd better learn what it's all about, or be really, really lucky. 

I have a financial advisor who is a personal friend and although we did manage to make some money back in the Nineties and earlier in this century, it would have evaporated if I had taken his advice and put it into mortgage backed securities and some other worthless crap that he was pushing.

Looking back on it, I was very lucky that I listened to my own self and got mostly out of the market several years ago when the gettin was good.  After you are retired it's a bit late and very risky to still be in the market.
Swingem

Offline Shu

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2011, 03:56:51 AM »
The other thing to remember about retirement is your house should be paid off. Without a mortage hanging over your head you can do real well on less money.

Offline Old Syko

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2011, 04:21:27 AM »
There's just one problem with the theory and that is that now days, you had better not count on making even 4 percent off the stock market.  You'd be lucky not to lose half your investment in a bad year and when the bad year is over, you don't get to start over; you start with what you have left.  No matter what anyone tries to tell you about stock market averages etc., we're in a new age and we've been there for awhile.

Here's a tip from someone who's been there and done that:  Don't trust financial advisors.  Their advice ain't worth a pinch of crap.  If you're going to fool around in the stock market, you'd better learn what it's all about, or be really, really lucky. 

I have a financial advisor who is a personal friend and although we did manage to make some money back in the Nineties and earlier in this century, it would have evaporated if I had taken his advice and put it into mortgage backed securities and some other worthless crap that he was pushing.

Looking back on it, I was very lucky that I listened to my own self and got mostly out of the market several years ago when the gettin was good.  After you are retired it's a bit late and very risky to still be in the market.

+1  Heed the words of Magooch!  He knows of which he speaks.  Financial advisers are more than willing to take high risk chances with your money while keeping theirs safe.  Ever read the study that compared the stock choices of a chimp to the choices of a respected adviser?  In the end the chimp had a better record.

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2011, 05:53:55 AM »
Magooch sums up the central problem very well. Also see my post on "low" (ha!) inflation rate today.  The original post still has a lot of value because it summarizes the key issues. It's never simple.

Online DDZ

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2011, 11:34:27 AM »

Here's a tip from someone who's been there and done that:  Don't trust financial advisors.  Their advice ain't worth a pinch of crap.  If you're going to fool around in the stock market, you'd better learn what it's all about, or be really, really lucky. 


Amen to that. I learned the hard way. I listened to this smooth talking financial adviser who invested my money in stocks. Ended up losing a bunch, which was not really a lot, but it was a lot to me, mainly because I worked for every dang red cent of it. Never again. After that mistake I almost wanted to dig a hole in my back yard and put the rest of my money in it. 
Ever notice how some mistakes are so costly?
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline briannmilewis

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2011, 12:42:31 PM »
Lost all my retirement in my house with a divorce and bankruptcy and have been unemployed for 2.5 years.

So my solution, as I am 57, is I am not going to try and make it all back, a stupid pursuit that would be.

I have learned to live on $2k/mo of unemployment benefits, which happens to be just about what I will get at SS 66, but I am going for my SS at 62 and will get $1500/mo, I know I can live well on that, $500 for necessities and $1000 to do what i want with.

Do yourself a favor and take your SS early and leave full-time work behind. Up till 66 you can earn $20k a year or so without effecting your SS, and when you reach your full SS age of 66, you have unlimited earning, nothing will effect what you get from SS.

By the way,the difference between taking your SS at 62 and not 66? The person who waits for 66 is only ahead if you both live to 70-72, then the person who waits takes home about $500 more per month. If you wait till 70, they take home about $1k more a month.

So you have to decide if you want to take the chance that you will not die between 62 and 70. The Govt is already hoping you die early so they don't have to pay you SS. 

Offline XD40SC

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 01:44:43 PM »
Lost all my retirement in my house with a divorce and bankruptcy and have been unemployed for 2.5 years.

So my solution, as I am 57, is I am not going to try and make it all back, a stupid pursuit that would be.

I have learned to live on $2k/mo of unemployment benefits, which happens to be just about what I will get at SS 66, but I am going for my SS at 62 and will get $1500/mo, I know I can live well on that, $500 for necessities and $1000 to do what i want with.

Do yourself a favor and take your SS early and leave full-time work behind. Up till 66 you can earn $20k a year or so without effecting your SS, and when you reach your full SS age of 66, you have unlimited earning, nothing will effect what you get from SS.

By the way,the difference between taking your SS at 62 and not 66? The person who waits for 66 is only ahead if you both live to 70-72, then the person who waits takes home about $500 more per month. If you wait till 70, they take home about $1k more a month.

So you have to decide if you want to take the chance that you will not die between 62 and 70. The Govt is already hoping you die early so they don't have to pay you SS.
EXACTLY- Took mine at 62.Takes too long to make up the difference and I could be dead by then.

Offline magooch

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2011, 04:19:48 PM »
The way things are going these days, you'd better start your S.S. as soon as you can--before it's all gone.
Swingem

Online DDZ

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 12:56:22 AM »
The way things are going these days, you'd better start your S.S. as soon as you can--before it's all gone.

Thats for sure.
I'm sure our government just can't stand giving us our money back. They see SS just as another piggy bank.   
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline magooch

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 04:20:05 AM »
You know, if we're honest with ourselves we too treat Social Security as if it is some kind of magic program where you put in a relatively few thousand bucks and then are able to milk it for multiple times for what the cost of admission was.  My wife and I have been drawing S.S. for a number of years; she has actually been getting it for a few years more than me, because she got a disability for a bad knee after she retired.  I've been drawing S.S. for six years and I'm pretty sure I've gotten back everything I put in and then some--at least I hope so.  Do I feel bad about that?  Hell no.  I didn't invent the program and I didn't volunteer to participate in it.  It's a Ponzi scheme where some win and some lose.   

We all should know that the program cannot go on like this forever.  I've always known that timing is everything and so far it's worked for me.
Swingem

Offline Swampman

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 05:37:16 AM »
When my mortgage is paid off, I'll still have to pay $250.00 per month in taxes and insurance. :'(
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2011, 06:38:19 AM »
You know, if we're honest with ourselves we too treat Social Security as if it is some kind of magic program where you put in a relatively few thousand bucks and then are able to milk it for multiple times for what the cost of admission was.  My wife and I have been drawing S.S. for a number of years; she has actually been getting it for a few years more than me, because she got a disability for a bad knee after she retired.  I've been drawing S.S. for six years and I'm pretty sure I've gotten back everything I put in and then some--at least I hope so.  Do I feel bad about that?  Hell no.  I didn't invent the program and I didn't volunteer to participate in it.  It's a Ponzi scheme where some win and some lose.   

We all should know that the program cannot go on like this forever.  I've always known that timing is everything and so far it's worked for me.
Actually, S.S. would have been able to be self sustaining, if the government hadn't "borrowed" (taken) money out of the program for "entitlement" programs. 
Do I consider S.S. an "entitlement"?  Nope, we put money in, and we should be allowed to get our money back.
Just my opinion, don't want to hijack thread. 
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Casull

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2011, 08:42:41 AM »
Just remember too, whatever you paid into SS was matched by your employer(s). 
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2011, 10:22:55 AM »
If you are going to invest your money, you need a balance of stocks, bonds, gold, and simple interest savings, and you can let an investment firm manage it.  An individual investor may make the wrong choices.  The big investors spread your money out to a multitude of companies and banks so if one fails, all isn't lost.  In Alabama if you are retired and on social security only, you don't have to pay property tax.  Some states don't have property tax.  Also, pay off your mortgage.  Downsize, have a garden, hunt, fish, install energy efficient equipment before retirement, etc.  That way you can get by with less.  Problem is, if the Federal government goes bankrupt in a few years, like if Obama is reelected, it has a greater chance, there will be no social security, no welfare, no food stamps, and maybe no military.  We might also have high inflation and money will be worthless.  That is why I mentioned gardening, hunting, fishing, having a wood stove, etc, so in an extreme emergency you can survive.   

Offline Swampman

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2011, 10:25:59 AM »
Buy guns....they only increase in value.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline magooch

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 04:10:20 AM »
Just remember too, whatever you paid into SS was matched by your employer(s).

Very good point, Casull.  I would guess that most of us tend to forget that.  What it means is that I've got to redouble my efforts to make sure that my employer's contributions don't go to waste.
Swingem

Offline Conan The Librarian

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2011, 05:06:18 AM »
And, due to inflation, every dollar you paid in back then was worth a lot more than it is today. So, that dollar you paid in back in 1970 was worth about 10 times what it's worth now. In other words you effectively paid in several times the purchasing power than the actual count of dollars may indicate.

Offline Casull

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2011, 05:59:13 AM »
Additionally, you (and your employer) will have paid in for 40 or so years, on average, and you will only draw out of the system for 10 to 15 years, on average. 
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline briannmilewis

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2011, 12:43:29 PM »
Additionally, you (and your employer) will have paid in for 40 or so years, on average, and you will only draw out of the system for 10 to 15 years, on average.

According to my last SS Statement, since 1981, me and my employers have paid in over $120k to SS and $15k to Medicare.

At $1500/mo from age 62, it will take 80 months to get my contributions back. I hope I live till 90 because they owe me 30 years of interest on that money as well, because I was not allowed to put my SS payments into an investment fund!

If my contributions were in a mutual fund, I would be rolling in $1m+++ or more easily.   

Offline briannmilewis

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2011, 02:20:41 PM »
Additionally, you (and your employer) will have paid in for 40 or so years, on average, and you will only draw out of the system for 10 to 15 years, on average.

According to my last SS Statement, since 1981, me and my employers have paid in over $162k to SS including Medicare.

At $1500/mo from age 62, it will take 9 years to get my contributions back. I hope I live till 90 because they owe me 30 years of interest on that money as well, because I was not allowed to put my SS payments into an investment fund!

If my contributions were in a mutual fund, I would be rolling in $1m+++ or more easily.

Offline magooch

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2011, 04:59:12 AM »
Not if you had my financial advisor and took his advice.
Swingem

Offline MGMorden

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Re: For you younger guys- how to retire in 60 grand a year.
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2011, 08:59:42 AM »
The other thing to remember about retirement is your house should be paid off. Without a mortage hanging over your head you can do real well on less money.

Yep.  My parents are nearing retirement age within the next 10 years (house will be paid off in 3) and though they've not got a lot of money saved up (truth be told between the two of their retirement accounts it's only around $100k) , they're mostly planning on being permanently out of debt.  House paid off, they're going to get one vehicle (paid for - no financing) to share between the two of them.  My dad's boat is long paid off (and it doesn't burn much gas, nor does he make it out fishing nearly as much as he used to). 

They'll also get a homestead tax exemption by that time that should knock the property taxes down to a tiny fraction of what they pay now.

Basically, they're trying to plan it so that they can make it solely off of their social security and try to not touch their savings.  Its a tough plan to try and make work though.