Myths of the Crusades

[subdjoe]

This site was pointed out to me today.  Nice bit of history and debunking common anti-west and anti-Christian distortions that pass as truth today.

Putting Perspective On Myths

Far from being unprovoked, then, the crusades actually represent the first great western Christian counterattack against Muslim attacks which had taken place continually from the inception of Islam until the eleventh century, and which continued on thereafter, mostly unabated. Three of Christianity’s five primary episcopal sees (Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria) had been captured in the seventh century; both of the others (Rome and Constantinople) had been attacked in the centuries before the crusades. The latter would be captured in 1453, leaving only one of the five (Rome) in Christian hands by 1500. Rome was again threatened in the sixteenth century. This is not the absence of provocation; rather, it is a deadly and persistent threat, and one which had to be answered by forceful defense if Christendom were to survive. The crusades were simply one tool in the defensive options exercised by Christians.

But nothing is served by distorting the past for our own purposes. Or rather: a great many things may be served . . . but not the truth. Distortions and misrepresentations of the crusades will not help us understand the challenge posed to the West by a militant and resurgent Islam, and failure to understand that challenge could prove deadly. Indeed, it already has. It may take a very long time to set the record straight about the crusades. It is long past time to begin the task.

[powderman]

Far from being unprovoked, then, the crusades actually represent the first great western Christian counterattack against Muslim attacks which had taken place continually from the inception of Islam until the eleventh century, and which continued on thereafter, mostly unabated.


SUBJOE. That pretty well explains the crusades. Christians trying to free themselves from satans grip. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

sadly,  the libs nowadays don't have the guts to do the same.   we have got to do something or learn to speak arabic.

[SHOOTALL]

wikipedia now that's a reliable source .

[billy_56081]

TM how about we talk about the old man of the mountain? I have done a lot of study on the crusades. The holy lands were forced under the yoke of islam by the sword. Israel is the sole shining light in the region at this time. I think it is time for the last crusade.

[powderman]

TM how about we talk about the old man of the mountain? I have done a lot of study on the crusades. The holy lands were forced under the yoke of islam by the sword. Israel is the sole shining light in the region at this time. I think it is time for the last crusade.

YEP. POWDERMAN. 

[srussell]

i knew it was a lie when you said Clinton

[bigMikeA]

TM how about we talk about the old man of the mountain? I have done a lot of study on the crusades. The holy lands were forced under the yoke of islam by the sword. Israel is the sole shining light in the region at this time. I think it is time for the last crusade.

Agreed billy...  good post   

[lakota]

Regardless of what happened during the Crusades what like 800 YEARS AGO? constantly bringing it up as a way to defend muslim behaviour TODAY is weak minded at best.

[powderman]

Regardless of what happened during the Crusades what like 800 YEARS AGO? constantly bringing it up as a way to defend muslim behaviour TODAY is weak minded at best.

LAKOTA. YEP, sure is. The G lobal  W ar  O n  I slam, or GWOI, is growing daily. POWDERMAN. 

[billy_56081]

TM I bet you really like the killing of Jews that was done in the crusades. Sounds like your cup of tea. Now how about the old man of the mountain?

[powderman]

TM I bet you really like the killing of Jews that was done in the crusades. Sounds like your cup of tea. Now how about the old man of the mountain?

BILLY. Yes, I'd like to hear about the old man of the mountain. POWDERMAN. 

[bigMikeA]

TM how about we talk about the old man of the mountain? I have done a lot of study on the crusades. The holy lands were forced under the yoke of islam by the sword. Israel is the sole shining light in the region at this time. I think it is time for the last crusade.

Agreed billy...  good post   

.
I'm afraid that would be a very slanted and parochial historical viewpoint, and not considering  the whole Crusade saga totally....

Let's go to the vaunted jewish encyclopedia to get their view and final word on the crusades...which was essentially a] against any heretics..jew, muslim, or unusual Christians, b] against moslem governmnetal regencies, AND c] to open up trade routes/riches to Christian concerns.


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=908&letter=C

CRUSADES, THE:     
 

 By : Richard Gottheil   Joseph Jacobs   

ARTICLE HEADINGS:
  First Crusade: 1096.
  Mayence.
  Second Crusade: 1145-47.
  Third Crusade: 1189-90.
  Results.


First Crusade: 1096.

Expeditions from western Europe to recover Jerusalem and the holy sepulcher from the control of the infidel. The undisciplined mobs accompanying the first three Crusades attacked the Jews in Germany, France, and England, and put many of them to death, leaving behind for centuries strong feelings of ill will on both sides. The social position of the Jews in western Europe was distinctly worsened by the Crusades, and legal restrictions became frequent during and after them. They prepared the way for the anti-Jewish legislation of Innocent III., and formed the turning-point in the medieval history of the Jews. The outbursts did not come unexpectedly. Soon after Peter the Hermit and Urban II. had aroused the enthusiasm of French chivalry at the Council of Clermont in 1094, Godfrey de Bouillon declared that he would avenge the blood of Jesus on that of the Jews, and leave none of them alive, while his companions threatened to exterminate the Jews if they would not become converted. The Judæo-French communities accordingly sent letters to those on the Rhine, who thereupon appointed a fastday to avert the evil (Jan., 1096); and when Godfrey de Bouillon came to Cologne and Mayence each community made him a present of 500 silver marks to secure his protection. When Peter of Amiens arrived with the crusaders at Treves early in 1096, he did not directly arouse the people against the Jews, but left a general ill will against them throughout Lorraine, especially through the influence of the knight Volkmar, who declared that he would not leave the kingdom until he had slain at least one Jew. In the spring of 1096 twenty-two Jews were slain at Metz, and on May 3 the crusaders and accompanying rabble attacked the Jews of Speyer, slaying eleven of them and only being restrained by the exertions of Bishop John from putting them all to death in the synagogue. On May 18 the Jews of Worms were all slain except a few who were forcibly baptized or who took refuge with the bishop. Their houses were destroyed, and even the corpses denuded. Many slew themselves rather than fall into the hands of the mob. The bishop's palace was stormed a week later, and all those within it were put to death. The number of the slain is said to have amounted to 800, though the extant list of names reaches only 400 (Salfeld, "Martyrologium," p. 107). One of the richest Jewesses, named Minna, when surrounded by the mob and implored by some of her friends among the nobles to accept baptism, resolutely refused and was put to death. Several were drowned, and Mar Shemariah with his whole family was buried alive amid the jeers of the mob, who nevertheless during the entombment offered in vain to grant them safety if they would become converted.
(see image) Map of Rhine Region, Showing Sites, with Dates, of Anti-Jewish Outbreaks During the First Crusade, 1096.

Mayence.

On the same day Count Emicho arrived at Mayence with a numerous band of crusaders, but he was not admitted by the archbishop Ruthard, who had promised protection to the Jews. Two days later, however, Emicho forced admission through a side gate, and, notwithstanding the armed defense of the Jews, succeeded in destroying them all except Kalonymus, the president of the congregation, and fifty-three others, who hid themselves in the treasure-house of the cathedral. A number of Jews who had defended themselves all day in a fortified position found it untenable as night came on, and, rather than fallinto the hands of the enemy, killed themselves. The corpses after being stripped were cast into nine graves; they are said to have numbered 1,014. Mar Isaac ben David, after having submitted to baptism, burned down his own house and the synagogue and perished in the flames, because it had been rumored that the Christians intended to turn the synagogue into a church. Kalonymus and his 53 companions were taken by bishop Ruthard in boats to Rüdesheim and kept there for some time; but on June 1 he declared he could not protect them unless they submitted to baptism. They determined to slay themselves rather than do this, and Kalonymus put his own son Joseph to death, and then, wild with grief, attempted to kill the archbishop, but was prevented and killed.

The crusaders again attacked the houses and synagogue of the Jews of Cologne on May 30; but here the citizens protected the Jews in their own houses until Archbishop Hermann, on June 3, sent them for safety to seven neighboring villages, Neuss, Wevelinghofen, Altenahr, Xanten, Geldern, Mörs, and Kerpen. The crusaders followed them to these places, killing 200 in Neuss and Altenahr, in several cases throwing old women and young children into the river (Salfeld, "Martyrologium," p. 133); forcing them to be baptized at Geldern and Kerpen; while in Wevelinghofen, Altenahr, and Xanten the Jews slew themselves rather than change their faith. The 300 Jews of Cologne who found themselves at Altenahr selected five men to slay the rest. In the month of June the crusaders reached Treves, and some of the Jews at once slew themselves, a number of Jewesses throwing themselves into the river. The rest betook themselves to the palace of Archbishop Egbert, who attempted in a sermon to persuade the people to spare the Jews, but was himself maltreated and besieged in his palace for a week, at the end of which he told the Jews there was no hope for their lives but in baptism. When they still remained obdurate some of them were exposed by him to the crusaders, who immediately slew them. The rest thereupon accepted baptism. The same fate befell the Jews of Regensburg, while those of Magdeburg were expelled. The crusaders on their march through Bohemia forced the Jews to become baptized, killing those who refused, notwithstanding the remonstrances of Bishop Cosmas. Next year, however, on the return of Emperor Henry from Italy, he granted them permission to revert to their ancestral faith (Pertz, "Monumenta," ii. 181), notwithstanding the protests of Pope Clement III. (Jaffe, "Regesta," No. 5336). The Jews of the Rhine district were decimated: it has been calculated that about 4,000 were killed or slew themselves. The few survivors of Mayence who had taken refuge at Speyer did not return to their old homes until 1104, when a new synagogue was dedicated (September 22). When the crusaders at last stormed Jerusalem, July 15, 1099, they drove all the Jews into one of the synagogues and there burned them alive.

Second Crusade: 1145-47.

During the preparations for the Second Crusade a narrow-minded monk named Radulph preached the Cross in the Rhine valley, and declared that the Jews should be slain as the enemies of the Christian religion. Bernard of Clairvaux protested energetically against the unchristian behavior of Radulph, and only a few isolated cases of outrage occurred. The Jews were expelled from Magdeburg and Halle. Bernard went to Germany to preach the Cross, and met the monk Radulph in open disputation at Mayence in the beginning of November, 1146, but failed to influence the people in favor of the Jews. He accordingly addressed a letter to the peoples of western Christendom, protesting against the persecution of the Jews. Notwithstanding this, when the crusaders came to Würzburg they slew the rabbi, Isaac ben Eliakim, and about twenty-one men, women, and children, whose bodies were buried by the bishop in his garden. This was ultimately purchased by Hezekiah, the brother of the rabbi, as a graveyard for the Jews (see Würzburg).

Third Crusade: 1189-90.

At the coronation on Sept. 3, 1189, of Richard I., before he started for the Third Crusade, a severe riot occurred, and after he had left the country the crusaders who were preparing to follow him attacked, with the aid of the populace, the Jews at Lynn, Stamford (March 7), Bury St. Edmunds (March 18), Colchester, Thetford, and Ospringe. The chief tragedy, however, occurred at York on the night of March 16, 1190, when 150 Jews of all ages, headed by Rabbi Yom-Tob of Joigny, immolated themselves to escape slaughter or baptism (see York).

Results.

Before the Crusades the Jews had practically a monopoly of trade in Eastern products, but the closer connection between Europe and the East brought about by the Crusades raised up a class of merchant traders among the Christians, and from this time onward restrictions on the sale of goods by Jews became frequent (Höniger, in "Zeit. Gesch. Juden Deutsch." i. 94 et seq.). The religious zeal fomented by the Crusades burned as fiercely against the Jews as enemies of Christ as against the Moslems. Thus both economically and socially the Crusades were disastrous for European Jews.

 


Read more: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=908&letter=C#ixzz1PvK3Pou9


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fyi...TM7
.

hmmmmmm.....  wth???   I think I'll just stick with what billy said.  billy nailed it.  pm nailed it.  TM ...  well...  just don't know what to say.   

[Casull]

I wouldn't argue with the jewish encyclopedia people, too much

tm, now that's funny.  I don't care who you are.   

[billy_56081]

I wouldn't argue with the jewish encyclopedia people, too much

tm, now that's funny.  I don't care who you are.   

Well he is the guy who made the catch phrase famous.

[powderman]

I wouldn't argue with the jewish encyclopedia people, too much

tm, now that's funny.  I don't care who you are.   

HEH. POWDERMAN. 

[subdjoe]

Not my thread, but I figure the thread was about using the Crusades to further the GWOT concept--w
..TM7

Nope, you figured totally wrong, TM.  I posted it to counter all the "Well, just look at the unprovoked Crusades and what they did" mantra we hear from the islamophiles and other apologists for the islamicist thugs to justify any and all attrocities the islmicists carry out on an almost daily basis. 

[bigMikeA]

thank you subdjoe,

[subdjoe]

thank you subdjoe,

My pleasure, BigMike.  I'm not gonna let TM make false assumptions and put his own self serving spin on why I posted. 

[billy_56081]

I don't think cutting and pasting a few short synopsis of the crusades is a historical view. I am still waiting to hear about the old man pf the mountain. If you want to get into a historical discussion, I would be obliged to discuss this with you.

[subdjoe]

Totally wrong again.  When I read that piece I thought it would be a nice counter to the revisionist view promoted by the islamophiles that mohammedeans were totally innocent victims of brutal westerners and never in all their history did anything more violent than hand out tracts on street corners. 

Not my thread, but I figure the thread was about using the Crusades to further the GWOT concept--w
..TM7

Nope, you figured totally wrong, TM.  I posted it to counter all the "Well, just look at the unprovoked Crusades and what they did" mantra we hear from the islamophiles and other apologists for the islamicist thugs to justify any and all attrocities the islmicists carry out on an almost daily basis.

Oh, I see ..very pristine motives indeed...   But I don't think there are any persons here ''apologizing for 'islamic thugs' to justify any and all of their atrocites'' as you say....mostly me who don't condone any of their violence or ours, or the expense.  Instead I think there are few guys that think we should mind our own business and get our own house in order instead of blaming all our problems on moslems.

But I think there is a large number of guys, as yourself, that like to justify our expenses, atrocities, and actions on moslem intransigence, and are constantly rubber necking at what they do, as in " Gee, would you look at that!"...look at that train wreck gawkers.

Here you're giving a half view of Crusades, and spinning it....I just happen to give another historical view to fill in the gaps from our jewish friends.....don't discount it, because they don't. If you want to argue about it...take it up with them.

...TM7
.

[Dixie Dude]

The Byzantine Empire (Constantinople, modern Istanbul), had been fighting off Muslims for years.  They lost Egypt, Syria, etc to the Muslim hordes going across Africa and into the Middle East.  They asked the Pope for help from western Europe especially after the French defeated the Muslims at Tours, France trying to take Europe from the west.  At least they drove them out of Spain and Portugal.  The crusaders sacked Constantinople because they saw all the gold and the wealth of the city and wanted it for themselves instead of taking back the old Byzantine empire from the Muslims.  They also spread into India and into central Asia and down the coast of east Africa and all the way to Indonesia before finally running out of steam.  Now they are back trying to expand again and are deceiving many people, especially the poor. 

[powderman]

I like stories about hunters, trappers, and old men of the mtn, I can hardy wait.
 The entire world has been fighting the muslim horde since mohamed dreamed it up. It's called the GWOI. POWDERMAN.