Author Topic: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South  (Read 2784 times)

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Offline randyb

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2011, 04:04:45 AM »
My vote goes to manpower, with the 2nd going to tactics.  If you look at the battles, what if Lee had had an extra 10,000 at chancellorsville? Johnston had the same at Shiloh?  Many southern victories were partial due to the inability to pursue a defeated foe.  If they had had more men the battles might have been more decisive. I think if the south had fought a more defensive campaign and could have held on til Lincoln was out of office, then the outcome might have been different.  The key would have been to not 'win' but to make sure that the North didn't win.  A grinding trench war with opportunistic counter attacks would have served the south better.   
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Offline williamlayton

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2011, 06:23:04 AM »
Randy I think that this was the one thing that the South got right.
It was the only means that the South had to win---that was thru attrition of the North and the North giving up the fight.
The problems that they overlookked are blareing in todays light.
The North wanted to win much more than the South could ever have envisioned. The South had no means to protect every leak in the dam of defense.
As gallant as the South fought--so did the North. This suprised the South and that can be read in manydiaries.
It was the same with Japan in WWII. They envisioned a nation of sloths who would give up the fight when confronted by Japanese spirit.
Half the battle is won when one side determines to underestimate the enemy. It almost killed us going into WWII---but our manufacturing capabilities were able to overcome the thoughs of many Generals in the armed forces of the USA.
We thought that our army was prepared for any enemy--we let our technology slide and vastly underestimated the intelligence of the japanese, thinking they to be incapable of producing planes and ships of the quality they had in their arsenal.
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TEXAS, by GOD

Offline us920669

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2011, 07:19:15 AM »
I'm glad someone else sees the similarities between the South and the Japanese Empire - it takes more than fighting spirit in the 20th Century, and as anyone who followed baseball knew, the Yankees always played to win.  Japan had the advantage of a crash program of modernization and some hi-tech goodies from Germany, but it was too little too late.

I had a Griswold Confederate revolver once.  The frame was asymmetrical - crooked - as you looked down the barrel.  They poured the brass into a hand made sand mold.

Offline necred

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2011, 10:31:18 AM »
The north...
I am a Southerner, if i were born in the north, east or west id be just another human being!

Offline Swampman

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2011, 11:49:24 AM »
The Yankees fought 3/4s of the war before they decided to win.  It could have been over in a few months if they'ed even commited 30% of their resources.
 
The South had pluck but they needed 10 times more soldiers than what they had.  New York state alone could have defeated us.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline usbone1

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2011, 07:59:06 AM »
One of the larger stumbling blocks for the north was a lack of competent (vice politically appointed) leadership in the armies on the field, and this carried down to the troops.  How long does it take to train a competent NCO?  The north did not have many I suspect when starting out.  Took a couple of years of that Darwinian process to weed out the bad generals and NCO's, and get on with the task of leading a small group or an army...and while Lincoln could never get rid of all the less-effective generals, he promoted those who fought.    The south tended to have more men familiar with living on the land, not from cities.  Their competence through the ranks overcame many weaknesses previously identified.  Most any southern farm hand was a candidate to be an NCO.  Likewise, when the Japanese air forces began to  lose airplanes/pilots at a faster rate after 1942, while the US's pilots were rotated in/out of combat to instructor roles to train still more pilots...the end was a foregone conclusion.   I've learned something after reading all your posts.  Thank you Folks.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2011, 08:34:12 AM »
The Yankees fought 3/4s of the war before they decided to win.  It could have been over in a few months if they'ed even commited 30% of their resources.
 
The South had pluck but they needed 10 times more soldiers than what they had.  New York state alone could have defeated us.
It could have been over in a few weeks if the South had followed them back to Washington at the First Battle of Bull Run . With many in the north on the Souths side or not willing to get involved it may have worked out .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline subdjoe

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2011, 09:49:04 AM »
The Yankees fought 3/4s of the war before they decided to win.  It could have been over in a few months if they'ed even commited 30% of their resources.
 
The South had pluck but they needed 10 times more soldiers than what they had.  New York state alone could have defeated us.
It could have been over in a few weeks if the South had followed them back to Washington at the First Battle of Bull Run . With many in the north on the Souths side or not willing to get involved it may have worked out .

Yep.  But the South wasn't fighting to gain territory or conquer, it just wanted to go in peace. Not following up after First Manassas cost the South the war.  It had humiliated the North, and, like any bully, the North couldn't stand for that.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline us920669

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2011, 09:51:21 AM »
Absolutely right.  I think I read once that Lincoln was hiding in the White House that night with no candles lit.  An angry crowd was outside throwing things.

Offline Swampman

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2011, 12:38:18 PM »
As much as I love the south, it's army, and it's military leaders I believe you guys greatly overestimate their ability to win.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline subdjoe

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2011, 01:04:31 PM »
Again, when they left, those seven states of the deep south didn't think they would have to fight.   They had legally, through their legislatures, severed their ties with the Union.  New England had threatened several times, and no one had raised any legal objections to that.  The federal government, until Lincoln, thought that the states could leave (even if it was a stupid thing to do).

When it came down to having to fight, they thought that showing a willingness to fight and hitting back a hard blow, would be enough to keep from having to fight a long war.  The leaders of the south misread the political, and financial, will of the north to carry out a war.  As has been pointed out time and again, the financing of projects in the north was too dependent on the revenue from customs houses in the south.

As much as I love the south, it's army, and it's military leaders I believe you guys greatly overestimate their ability to win.
Your ob't & etc,
Joseph Lovell

Justice Robert H. Jackson - It is not the function of the government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: The Single Greatest Obstacle To The South
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2011, 03:12:30 AM »
As much as I love the south, it's army, and it's military leaders I believe you guys greatly overestimate their ability to win.
I think if they had not invaded the north and had a huge loss they may have faired better . After GB there sprit was broken and Lee seemed out of touch maybe he was before GB. He made a very bad blunder there .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !