17 hmr for bigger varmits

[17homer]

I am a happy owner of a  Ruger 77/17 fitted with a leupold 3x9 scope I  have yet to take a coyote with it just wondring anyone out there take one yet. up to this time I have taken coyotes with 22 LR and 243 But as you can see I live in Michigan and to hunt at night you must use a rimfire or shotgun

[Lawdog]

17homer,

More than a few have tried to take coyotes with the .17HMR but the cartridge was never designed for animals that large.  The bullets open up way to quick for larger varmint use.  I have shot a number of ground squirrels with the .17 and seen what it did to them and NO WAY would those bullets get into the vitals of an animal the size of a coyote.  You want a coyote caliber get something that will penetrate deeper than the .17HMR.  A .22 WMR would be a better choice and it is under powered.  Mind you I am not saying the .17 won't kill a coyote, I am saying it isn't a good choice for coyotes.  Lawdog

[encorejames]

he i hunt in anson county n.c. and we have a major problem with them coyotes. i have a cz american with a nikon 5.5 to 16 scope on it. with the v max hornady i this year have taken 2 coyotes one at 65 and one at 90 yards both were well placed shoots in the neck and i promiss they went only about one foot (down). going to try on hogs down there next year. i shoot a 225 lbs hog new years eve with a 270 wsm. when we killed hogs at my grand fathers in s.c. they always used a 22lr. between the eyes and they would fall down dead. the 17gr. may not get thru. but i think ill try.
as accurately as it shoots i could put it in the eye may that would do the trick. yes both my cz's are very accurate! so to close yes i know it will work well. one test i done at first. take a thick telephone book 3" thick min. and lay it on the ground you would not believe what that little bullet will do!
 
p.s. got some pictures of the necks will try to get some converted to dig. and send thru email.

[S.S.]

Use the CCI version that is a hollow point
without the polymer tip. They do not explode
on impact as severly as the Hornady Polymer tip.
I am after some Feral dogs that are roaming my property
and that is what I am using on them.
(A seriously MANGY lot, They probobly won't last the
winter anyway) Head shot are preferable if possible!
My longest shot so far was 130 paces (Yards give or take a little)
and I was very impressed in how the little .17 performed.

[spitpatch]

I've seen the bullet shot in ballistic clay and they totally explode within 1/2" of penetration. Unless you plan on torturing these animals of a larger size, the .17 is a piss poor choice in my opinion. They will not kill larger animals effectively, and you have a very good probability of these animals escaping and dying a slow miserable death, as many probably already have. NO animal deserves this kind of death and in my opinion this is highly irresponsible hunting, no matter what kind of animal, be it varmit or food.
  It seems to always come to this.......IDIOTS wanting to see how big an animal they can kill with a pea shooter. These guns were NEVER designed for animals as large as coyotes or hogs, they are high powered squirrel rifles.......but you people will not figure this out until you cripple some animals. You might get lucky and kill the coyote or pig, but the odds are aginst you, no matter how good a shot you are.
   If you dopes do this, I can assuradly count you among the most immoral and irresponsable hunters in the woods, and I think many others will too. Next lets try to kill a deer with a .177 pellet rifle.........probably can if your a good shot, and hit them in the eye!........... your MORONS that don't deserve to own a rifle. Phone books are not flesh!

[jh45gun]

I've seen the bullet shot in ballistic clay and they totally explode within 1/2" of penetration. Unless you plan on torturing these animals of a larger size, the .17 is a piss poor choice in my opinion. They will not kill larger animals effectively, and you have a very good probability of these animals escaping and dying a slow miserable death, as many probably already have. NO animal deserves this kind of death and in my opinion this is highly irresponsible hunting, no matter what kind of animal, be it varmit or food.
  It seems to always come to this.......IDIOTS wanting to see how big an animal they can kill with a pea shooter. These guns were NEVER designed for animals as large as coyotes or hogs, they are high powered squirrel rifles.......but you people will not figure this out until you cripple some animals. You might get lucky and kill the coyote or pig, but the odds are aginst you, no matter how good a shot you are.
   If you dopes do this, I can assuradly count you among the most immoral and irresponsable hunters in the woods, and I think many others will too. Next lets try to kill a deer with a .177 pellet rifle.........probably can if your a good shot, and hit them in the eye!........... your MORONS that don't deserve to own a rifle. Phone books are not flesh!

Spitpatch I agree with you that is why I never went on the 17 bandwagon I felt that the 22 mag is a better choice all the way around. For those that say the 22mag is underpowered I disagree if you can place your shots but then I think the 22 mag is a better round it will penetrate. If you need to get the job done a centerfire is a better choice but if you are limited to rimfires than  I would use a 22 mag. Spitpatch as moderator here just a caution I argree with ya but try to be a little more civil ok though I realize that it is hard to do sometimes when we disagree with some one. Jim

[spitpatch]

Sorry Jim,
   This kind of irresponsable use of firearms just burns me to an absolute crisp! My post WAS toned down from what I'd like to have said to these gentlemen, however, I will try to do better in the future. Everything we have here on Earth God has allowed us to have and to use while we are here, including firearms, and I'm sure he is saddened to see his gifts used in these manners. There are some people who may very well be able to surgically place their shots but then you have John Doe Dillweed who will read those posts and want to try the same thing with horrible results. I would agree animals that cause trouble ie: coyotes.....mangy wild dogs and the such probably do need to be shot but use a gun that you "know" will get the job done effectively instead of one you have to "wonder" about. Make no mistake about it....John Doe Dillweed is out there and is reading your posts and will want to try the same thing.
                              Again Jim, my apologies for my heated post

[jh45gun]

Spitpatch, Hey no problem and I am glad you understand and are not mad at me for making the comment. I just feel we should try to be civil here but I do agree with you that when upset you use words you maybe should not. I know I do so I am not any better though I try to watch it online I have made slips also so do not think that I think I am any better I am not just as a moderator here I try to keep things at a normal keel By your nickname am I to guess that you are a muzzle loader also? I do too. I built a side lock with parts (Not a Kit) and it has a green Mountain slow twist barrel for ball shooting I like it. I also am building a fast twist 54 for conical shooting that will be a inline just as the barrels were made for that it also is a GM barrel that I got on a clearance for 30 bucks it was made for the Knight MK86 series. Got the shotgun barrel for the same price gonna plug the breech plug on that one in back and drill and tap underneith the barrel and make that one a underhammer gun with plans for the underhammer system I found in a Magazine.  On a side note as far as the 22 mag goes I know that it has been a poachers choice caliber on deer so I know a well placed bullet will do in a yote. I know this from the old days as  poaching was prevalent when I was growing up in my neck of the woods. It is not as prevelent now in fact I have not heard of much at all though  I suppose some still goes on. Deer tags are abundant now and in the old days  poaching was a slap on the wrist  and not that frowned on, now it is loss of 2000 bucks, and gun and maybe vehicle so guys do not do that any more in my area which is good. I agree though that the 17 as designed is not good for anything larger than small game mostly because of bullet choice and penetration factors.  If they designed a different bullet than who knows look at Bell shooting Elephants with the 7mm BUT he did use a specialized bullet and bullet placement was key something that not all shooters can do well as you stated.  Still the size factor makes ya wonder as lots of deer are killed every year with 22 cal centerfires but Sub 22 cal centerfires are not legal so that should tell these 17 HMR fans something! Jim

[spitpatch]

Yes Jim I do shoot smoke poles alot. I count them among my favorite guns. I've only seen one underhammer that my neighbor built from scratch, and it's to say the least different looking. His is very crude looking and he uses a rubber band for a hammer spring......he made every part himself, stock, lock, and barrel.......real hillbilly. It will shoot up to and exceed most factory rifles. Whittled the stock from a 2x4.
        Your right about the .22 mag being a poachers favorite, they are here too, and you hit the nail on the head about shot placement being imperative for a clean kill, can easily be done under the right circumstances. You also know as I do a lot of deer that would have been killed with the less than perfect shots with a high power were mamed with the less than perfect shots with the .22 WMR's.
       I wasn't going to divulge this information about myself, but for everybody reading this post I'll tell you this. I used to poach quite a bit in my youth and the .22 WMR was my favorite gun for this purpose, and I mamed a few animals myself, because poachers usually "snap shoot" hence the less than perfect shots. Very rarely did I have a place or time to rest my rifle. I am older and wiser now and am ashamed of myself for the animals I butchered no mattered how few, and hope God will forgive the stupidity of my youth. We are all stewards of the animals God has put upon the Earth and this should not be taken lightly.
      Nowadays I INSIST on surgical accuracy from every gun I own and will not take a shot if I have ANY second thoughts about making it or wondering if my bullet will do the job and I hope in some small way this will make up for the animals I crippled in my youth. It's a horrible feeling to know you are responsible for an animal having a slow, miserable death. No animal deserves this.
      I hope you people thinking about doing something stupid with your rifles will think about this before you do it. It will haunt you...it has me.

[jh45gun]

Well to be honest I shot a few myself when I was younger using a 22 mag in a pistol and it did the job and I never lost a one but then they were all standing shots and I shot for shots that would drop them right there. I do not regret that at the time as it was what we ate.  I know a lot of folks do not understand this as help these days is available if you need help but back then it was easier to go shoot a deer and most help was looked on as charity which most folks did not want to do. Yea I broke the law and am not proud of it but I do not hang my head either as Like I said we ate them and the whole thing. Even boiled the bones  and took the stock and meat scraps and mixed with corn meal to feed the dog. Now days I would not think of doing it but in those days I had to along with some others I knew. My folks during hard times did the same. We lived off of the land as much as we could.  Today it is a bit different as there is lots of help out there if you need it. Plus poaching is not looked on like it used to be. Most rual familys did not get upset over it. now days it is a different story. Jim

[spitpatch]

I agree totally, most of what I shot we needed. Most young people today don't realize how hard times were in the rural areas, and you got what you could. I remember Mom cooking the bulbs on the bottom of cattails for potatoes a time or two. you ate whatever you could find. I'm glad those days are gone and hope they never return.

[DannoBoone]

I've gotten varmints up to the size of fox and raccoons, but would not
purposely hunt coyotes with the hmr.  Quick kills on both fox & coons.

Some have claimed to make instant kills on coyotes under 100 yards,
but the 'yote is at a perfect 90 degree angle to the shooter, it is shot
just under the ear, the neck along the line of the vertabrae........heck
why don't they just place a few "bullseyes" on the critter before shooting
it!!!

The 17hmr is a blast to shoot, but if you must use a rimfire at night, use
the .22mag, and ya won't have to worry about perfect broadside shots.

[Perferator]

homer,  good to see another michigander here!  Let me give you some examples of what the 17hmr will do with the CCI cartridge (even though others will rant).

There is one I know that has taken a doe at 60yds with a shot to the head.  Illegal and unethical, yes and I wouldnt do it...but it has been done.  

I've seen a few of these rifles at our private range shooting the CCI round.  These little things will blast through a 4x4 treated beam at 100yds, shoot through a trailer hitch ball coupler without moving it at 25yds and with a quick 16clicks of the scope run a round through a water-filled pop bottle at 200yds without knocking it over.

If you've gone to the rimfirecentral.com website you'll find a fellow there that has taken many, many coyote with boiler room shots using the 17hmr.

What do I use??  Kinda prefer the other extreme.....guide gun in 45-70.  If it's not a clean hit it will anchor them quickly.



Perferator

[Perferator]

homer,  good to see another michigander here!  Let me give you some examples of what the 17hmr will do with the CCI cartridge (even though others will rant).

There is one I know that has taken a doe at 60yds with a shot to the head.  Illegal and unethical, yes and I wouldnt do it...but it has been done.  

I've seen a few of these rifles at our private range shooting the CCI round.  These little things will blast through a 4x4 treated beam at 100yds, shoot through a trailer hitch ball coupler without moving it at 25yds and with a quick 16clicks of the scope run a round through a water-filled pop bottle at 200yds without knocking it over.

If you've gone to the rimfirecentral.com website you'll find a fellow there that has taken many, many coyote with boiler room shots using the 17hmr.

What do I use??  Kinda prefer the other extreme.....guide gun in 45-70.  If it's not a clean hit it will anchor them quickly.



Perferator

[Perferator]

homer,  good to see another michigander here!  Let me give you some examples of what the 17hmr will do with the CCI cartridge (even though others will rant).

There is one I know that has taken a doe at 60yds with a shot to the head.  Illegal and unethical, yes and I wouldnt do it...but it has been done.  

I've seen a few of these rifles at our private range shooting the CCI round.  These little things will blast through a 4x4 treated beam at 100yds, shoot through a trailer hitch ball coupler without moving it at 25yds and with a quick 16clicks of the scope run a round through a water-filled pop bottle at 200yds without knocking it over.

If you've gone to the rimfirecentral.com website you'll find a fellow there that has taken many, many coyote with boiler room shots using the 17hmr.

What do I use??  Kinda prefer the other extreme.....guide gun in 45-70.  If it's not a clean hit it will anchor them quickly.



Perferator

[Perferator]

Sorry about the multiple posts.

Moderator, please delete extras?

Thanx.

[S.S.]

Never has a Coyote or Feral dog Run farther than about 10
steps with anything I have ever shot one with!
I have been hunting for 32 years and have lost 2 animals
(1 squirrel fell into a fork in a tree, 1 Whitetail fell in the river).
I regret both incidents, but nothing in my power would
have changed the outcome of those two hunts!
I base my hunting "ETHICS" on my marksmanship abilities,
and knowing my limitations.
Not the weapon I choose to hunt with!

[Perferator]

S.Sumner, I agree.  Practice as much as you can so you can hit as much as you can.  I've taken hundreds of squirrels with the lowly .177pellet.  There is nothing like the rewarding sound of a squirrel hitting branches on the way down. Shot placement is everything.


Perferator

[17homer]

I just put a question out there and it was good to see all the input. Some of the input was worthwhile some was just BRUTAL to the point that will bring a split in the hunting ranks. To the guys that felt they had an ax to grind I feel that I have done more for hunting then most. I TEACH MICHIGAN HUNTER SAFTEY TO 12 YEAR OLDS.    WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR HUNTING           17 HOMER

[S.S.]

Hats Off To Ya'

I too teach safe gun handing to youngsters
(and anyone else who wants to know).

There is nothing quite as special as the excitement
of a youngster when they cut center on their targets
or bag their first game. (I take several of them hunting
with me on a piece of my property, Parents too if they
want to go!)

I have also worked in Ballistics testing for many years
with several law enforcement agencies. There are not many
Modern or Obsolete rounds that I am not well aware of their
capabilities.

I still really like the 17 HMR for Coyote but
 I understand the concern of some of the above
posts though.

[JohnClif]

The .17 is not the optimal cartridge for coyotes.

Having said (written) that... certainly it would make short work of any coyote within 50 yards given decent bullet placement (chest shot NOT through the shoulder).  I personally would not hesitate to take a broadside chest shot within 100 yards and have no doubts that a coyote thus struck would not be long for this world.  The critter might run 25 to 50 yards, just as a deer shot thru the lungs with an '06 might run the same distance, for the same reason (until the blood pressure drops enough to cause unconsciousness the animal won't realize that it is dead).  Is that 'sporting' on deer but not sporting on coyote?  I dunno... but if we only find cartridges that give consistently INSTANT kills to be sporting then we need to move up from the '06 for 150 lb whitetail deer to something like the .340 Weatherby (or bigger).

I'm sure the perception of what passes for 'effective' is different depending upon the terrain.  Here in the open West, we can see a long way so if a coyote makes it 50 yards we can find it easily.  The same can't be true back in the densely-forested Southeast.  The coyote is just as dead, but if it isn't found the hunter has a completely different perception of what works and what doesn't.

There was a group of Nosler employees who used to hunt elk with the .243 Winchester and Nosler Partition bullets.  They would only take broadside chest shots behind the shoulder... and they never had an elk get away.  The moral of this story: it's all about bullet placement.

In general, cartridges on the small side for the intended game require discipline on the part of the hunter to choose his shot, and to hold fire if he cannot get the shot needed.  If you aren't restrained enough to keep from attempting the Texas heart shot on a coyote, then pick something more powerful than the .17 HMR.  I've used a custom-built M70 Laredo converted to 6.71 Lazzeroni Blackbird (chrono'd at 3975 ft/sec with the Nosler 100gr Ballistic Tip out of a 28" Lilja barrel) to 'puff' a few and, unlike the .17 bullet placement is not at ALL critical... the Blackbird does to coyotes what a .17 does to a ground squirrel.

Ahh.. the smack of a bullet on coyote meat... sounds like victory.

[David Owens]

First of all, I am not trying to say that anyone should use a .17 HMR for hunting large game.  However, anyone doubting the potential killing power behind a .172 caliber bullet would do well to read the reports of one Mr. A. Lee Roberteon.  Training officer, Utah State Department of Fish and Game.  A brief excerpt from his notes can be found in P.O.Ackley's Volume II, of Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders...page 90.    I have had the pleasure of owning several Centerfire .17 caliber rifle.  .17 CCM, .17 Rem, .17 Mach IV, and my most recent a newly purchased .17 HMR.  On two occasions I have witnessed the killing power on deer using a 20 grain Berger MEF bullets, fired out of my Mach IV at around the 4100FPS velocity mark.  Driving back from the firing range one evening I happened upon a Car VS Deer accident.  I stopped when I noticed a deer flopping around in the ditch next to the road.  The driver of the car holding a rock was ready to end the 6-points suffering.  I offered up my .17 Mach IV in place of the rock.  The range was close, within 10 yards.  The shot placement was perfect into the skull.  The deer died instantly.  What did this prove?  That a deer shot through the head point blank with my .17 MAch IV died instantly.  Does that mean the Mach IV is a deer rifle?  No!   On another occasion while coyote hunting I came to within 200 yards of a large doe that had been wounded during Archery season.  I knew of the incident as it was my Brother in Law who had shot the doe and had very poor shot placement.  Hitting her in the right flank.  We found the broken arrow shaft and very little blood.  This deer stayed in the same area for months, but never gave anyone a chance to put her down.   The local conservation agent told us that if we ever got the chance to put her down to do it, and he would remove the carcus afterwards.   My shot was at 200 yards.  And I waited for a broad side shot to present itself.  I watched her limp around until she finally turned.  I had all the confidance in the rifles accuracy and planned to take a neck shot on her.  She never would completley stop. I finally rested my crosshairs just forward of her front shoulder and squeezed.  I saw the bullets impact through my scope and it was lights out for this wounded Doe.  She didn't twitch, she didn't kick, she didn't run.  She folded up and fell forward with her legs still under her.
I called the conservation man and told him about the incident.  He was as good as his word.  She was so festered with infection that there was no way she could have been eaten. A waste to be sure.   So what does this prove?  To me, this proves that anyone who says that a high velocity .17 cal wont take a deer cleanly.  With perfect shot placement and within reasonable ranges.  Has never had the oppurtunity to witness the killing power that the seventeen cals posses.   I have killed several coyotes using my old Kimber .17 CCM.  Nearly identical ballistics as the Hummer.  The big difference was in bullets. I used the Berger 15 grain MEF's here.  Again, I waited for best shot placement, and avoided a shot where the bullet would need to break bone.  I have high hopes for my new little HMR.  Fox, Coon, Squirrles and Crows hunting in populated areas.  And if I get the chance to drop a Coyote will I take the shot?  If I get a broad  side shot within 150 yards...Yep I will.  Does this make me an irresponsible hunter?  No.

[Fla Boy]

Last week I purchased a Marlin 17vs and love it. I took a feral hog with the rifle that weighed just uder 250 lbs. This was unintended as I feel that the gun is to light for a possibly dangerous animal as boar. This hog was shot right behind the shoulder using the CCI hollow point. The hogs shoulder was fairly heavy from a natural shield, but the bullet penetrated the shield and made a 2 inch hole through the shoulder entering the body cavity between two ribs traveling through one lung and peppering the far lung this did not knock him down but dispatched him rapidly. This had to be done to keep the boar from killing some pups that I was running at the time. I had no clue the boar was in the area but was pleasently surprised by the little round.