Ron Paul introduces bill to legalise pot,

[SHOOTALL]

If pot was legal it won't change construction other than test will happen alot more. I have been in construction since 1972 and have seen both drunks and drug users on the job , more than I care to remember . On several jobs I along with others walked off because of a drunk foreman or equipment operator on drugs ( crane) .
I have worked on large jobs ( 10 million and higher ) where drugs , beer were sold on site and prositutes worked on site.

[Heather]

How would you like to work in construction, or any other hazardous type of job, next to folks who use drugs?  How would you like your kids being driven around in a school bus with a driver who uses?  If drugs are legalized, the problems we have now are going to look like small potatoes. Consider the wonderful benefits of legal alcohol.  Take that times millions and you get the results of legalized drugs. 

I have seen first hand what happens to people who think they can use dope responsibly.  All of them are dead, or in prison and they aren't in prison for just using dope; it's from their minds and judgement being altered.

Drugs being legal would not terminate a company's right to deny employment to someone who uses. Companies use drug screens upon hiring, after an accident, and even at random. Jobs that require a level head should still retain some type of integrity by not allowing users to work there. Common sense should prevail even when people have personal liberty.  Freedom should apply to individuals as well as companies.

[45-70.gov]

most  of the arguments  FOR   government intervention  are like this

how  would  you  like..................
or
so you think.......................should be leagal......

what  does what  i like  got to do with some ones  elses rights???

yes  yes ....  meth....cocain...crack...alcohal...and pot
why  must you split  hairs

WHAT  PART  OF FREEDOM  DO YOU  NOT  UNDERSTAND

[dukkillr]

Drugs being legal would not terminate a company's right to deny employment to someone who uses. Companies use drug screens upon hiring, after an accident, and even at random. Jobs that require a level head should still retain some type of integrity by not allowing users to work there. Common sense should prevail even when people have personal liberty.  Freedom should apply to individuals as well as companies.

Well said. 

[powderman]

How would you like to work in construction, or any other hazardous type of job, next to folks who use drugs?  How would you like your kids being driven around in a school bus with a driver who uses?  If drugs are legalized, the problems we have now are going to look like small potatoes. Consider the wonderful benefits of legal alcohol.  Take that times millions and you get the results of legalized drugs. 

I have seen first hand what happens to people who think they can use dope responsibly.  All of them are dead, or in prison and they aren't in prison for just using dope; it's from their minds and judgement being altered.

Drugs being legal would not terminate a company's right to deny employment to someone who uses. Companies use drug screens upon hiring, after an accident, and even at random. Jobs that require a level head should still retain some type of integrity by not allowing users to work there. Common sense should prevail even when people have personal liberty.  Freedom should apply to individuals as well as companies.

I have to agree with that. In construction I have seen those high or drunk and have refused to work with them especially up in the air or if they were running heavy equipment. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

if drugs became legal, what would be the ACLUs take on companies denying employment to users?
I haven't applied for a job in a long time but IIRC they didn't ask if you drank.
would a job application ask about drug use?
lot of stuff to ponder.

[Empty Quiver]

if drugs became legal, what would be the ACLUs take on companies denying employment to users?
I haven't applied for a job in a long time but IIRC they didn't ask if you drank.
would a job application ask about drug use?
lot of stuff to ponder.

If you are not intoxicated on duty why should it matter? Cripes just a few short hours before work I was ASLEEP. POTUS himself has been filmed drinking and I'm pretty sure he doesn't punch out at all.

They ask about drug use because it is illegal to use drugs, DOT and other regulatory agencies require they do so. What I feel will be a sticky point is exactly what level of intoxication ie,. blood levels will be tolerated? Since many drugs stay in a persons fatty tissues they are very slow to leave even though the buzz may be gone the chemical will still be discernable. On top of that I don't know as there is a cheap fast test machine like a breathalizer. Cops will be the sole arbator of your sobriety as far as enforcment on site. Sure you may pass when test results come back from the lab in 24hrs. In the meantime you have had a lousy evening for that one hitter you did a couple hours ago. The smell is in your clothes still and is probable cause.

There are problems to every solution but denying a persons freedom should not be taken lightly.

[us920669]

Some years ago they were saying that some foods will give a false positive for marijuana - I don't know if tests are better today.  Everyone seems to agree that transportation workers, heavy equipment operators and so forth should be held to the highest standards.  These are the things that come out in the wash.  All Ron Paul is saying is that the Federal effort should be eased back on what is widely regarded as the least harmful of the so-called drugs.  That'll get my vote.

[XD40SC]

Does Marijuana Lead to the Use of Other Drugs?

From National Institute on Drug Abuse,

Updated September 07, 2009
Question: Does Marijuana Lead to the Use of Other Drugs?

Answer: It could. Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana.
For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs.

 To better determine this risk, scientists are examining the possibility that long-term marijuana use may create changes in the brain that make a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs, such as alcohol or cocaine. While not all young people who use marijuana go on to use other drugs, further research is needed to predict who will be at greatest risk.

 

[XD40SC]

Money Drain from Health Problems
 
A study by the Rand Corp., a non-profit research firm, states that legalizing marijuana would "almost certainly" lead to increase in use and a decrease in cost to the user. Increased health risks would be likely, and this has the potential for an economic drain on state and federal health programs. Drug use, including that of marijuana, can be addictive and can lead to problems in education, work and relationships. Drug intoxication, including marijuana, leads to memory loss and impairs learning, states the National Institute on Drug Abuse. Drug rehabilitation is a costly process



Read more: Pros and Cons of Drug Legalization | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8102608_pros-cons-drug-legalization.html#ixzz1QWs6bHux

[us920669]

Interesting but not surprising.  No establishment source will say anything else, until the big wigs decide that the cost of the policy outweighs the benefits.  Then, the experts will sing a different tune and the science will suddenly run in a different direction.  Happens all the time in any area you can name.

Again, no one is saying that pot is good.  The question is how do we deal with it, and the solution we have come up with, as in so many areas, seems to be the one that costs the most and does the least.   

[45-70.gov]

Does Marijuana Lead to the Use of Other Drugs?

From National Institute on Drug Abuse,

Updated September 07, 2009
Question: Does Marijuana Lead to the Use of Other Drugs?

Answer: It could. Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana.
For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs.

 To better determine this risk, scientists are examining the possibility that long-term marijuana use may create changes in the brain that make a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs, such as alcohol or cocaine. While not all young people who use marijuana go on to use other drugs, further research is needed to predict who will be at greatest risk.

so  this  is more important than freedom??

what  is your  point???

how  ever  i will head  your advice  and not smoke it....thanks

[ironglow]

  I would suppose any drug user is about like a drunk in his attitude.  Perhaps you have seen the tests run by the various state police agencies; the one showing how the average drunk is operating in delusion and doesn't even know it.  It goes as such;

          The state police do an experiment under control conditions.  They get a group of driver assembled on a paved automotive test area.  They start giving the drivers alcoholic drinks...after a couple drinks they ask the drivers if they feel impaired.  Of course, most all of them deny impairment...but they can't negotiate a pylon route nerarly as well as they could before the alcohol.
  A couple more drinks and they hardly leave any pylons standing on the same course..but the driver rarely believes themselves to be impaired.
  No doubt the average pot-head feels the same way..and drives just as safely..

[XD40SC]

Does Marijuana Lead to the Use of Other Drugs?

From National Institute on Drug Abuse,

Updated September 07, 2009
Question: Does Marijuana Lead to the Use of Other Drugs?

Answer: It could. Long-term studies of high school students and their patterns of drug use show that very few young people use other illegal drugs without first trying marijuana.
For example, the risk of using cocaine is 104 times greater for those who have tried marijuana than for those who have never tried it. Using marijuana puts children and teens in contact with people who are users and sellers of other drugs. So there is more of a risk that a marijuana user will be exposed to and urged to try more drugs.

 To better determine this risk, scientists are examining the possibility that long-term marijuana use may create changes in the brain that make a person more at risk of becoming addicted to other drugs, such as alcohol or cocaine. While not all young people who use marijuana go on to use other drugs, further research is needed to predict who will be at greatest risk.

so  this  is more important than freedom??

what  is your  point???

how  ever  i will head  your advice  and not smoke it....thanks

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose - JJ

[yellowtail3]

Interesting but not surprising.  No establishment source will say anything else, until the big wigs decide that the cost of the policy outweighs the benefits.  Then, the experts will sing a different tune and the science will suddenly run in a different direction.  Happens all the time in any area you can name.

BINGO - give that man a cee-gar. There's waaaay too many people making bank on the status quo to give it up.

[Empty Quiver]

Money Drain from Health Problems
 
A study by the Rand Corp., a non-profit research firm, states that legalizing marijuana would "almost certainly" lead to increase in use and a decrease in cost to the user. Increased health risks would be likely, and this has the potential for an economic drain on state and federal health programs. Drug use, including that of marijuana, can be addictive and can lead to problems in education, work and relationships. Drug intoxication, including marijuana, leads to memory loss and impairs learning, states the National Institute on Drug Abuse. Drug rehabilitation is a costly process



Read more: Pros and Cons of Drug Legalization | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8102608_pros-cons-drug-legalization.html#ixzz1QWs6bHux

On the other hand we could free up plenty of prison beds for truely violent offenders free/fire plenty of DEA agents sell lots of DEA equipment, fire lots of public defenders or use the extra help to free the dockets and insure speedy trials. Impose a modest tax structure to pay for tons of "OMG drugs will kill you" duh, we already spend that money and it is nigh well wasted.

[45-70.gov]

BUT THIS WOULD INVOLVE  DOWN SIZING GOVERNMENT CONTROL OVER PEOPLE

[ironglow]

  If the power-to-be campaigned against illegal drugs near as much as they campaign against cigarettes, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion.  I suspect many of the powers-to-be may have a slice of the same problem.

  In any case, I think RP hurt his candidacy with this stand.  Likely he will keep his Libertarian base and perhaps solidify it..but the conservative voters will likely look elsewhere.  Still, should it be Paul vs Obama, no question it's Paul...

[powderman]

In any case, I think RP hurt his candidacy with this stand.  Likely he will keep his Libertarian base and perhaps solidify it..but the conservative voters will likely look elsewhere.  Still, should it be Paul vs Obama, no question it's Paul...


Agreed Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

  In any case, I think RP hurt his candidacy with this stand.  Likely he will keep his Libertarian base and perhaps solidify it..but the conservative voters will likely look elsewhere. 

You may be right. We'd all benefit if those conservatives would think about things, instead of obediently sticking to dogma.

[Matt]

  In any case, I think RP hurt his candidacy with this stand.  Likely he will keep his Libertarian base and perhaps solidify it..but the conservative voters will likely look elsewhere. 

You may be right. We'd all benefit if those conservatives would think about things, instead of obediently sticking to dogma.

Agreed Sir.
Matt

[billy_56081]

So if Paul gets the libertarian vote and the rest of the R voters "hold their noses and vote for him", won't that be a good thing? I won't vote for Mitt or Rudy G. Wouldn't Paul gain votes? But first he needs to win the primary.

[45-70.gov]

  In any case, I think RP hurt his candidacy with this stand.  Likely he will keep his Libertarian base and perhaps solidify it..but the conservative voters will likely look elsewhere. 

You may be right. We'd all benefit if those conservatives would think about things, instead of obediently sticking to dogma.

and  its  sad  that  obumer will get re-elected because people are against freedom

or that we might get  romny

Agreed Sir.
Matt

[Empty Quiver]

So if Paul gets the libertarian vote and the rest of the R voters "hold their noses and vote for him", won't that be a good thing? I won't vote for Mitt or Rudy G. Wouldn't Paul gain votes? But first he needs to win the primary.

I'm afraid the king makers have no use whatsoever for Ron Paul. I think it is a shame, but they can barely tolerate being in the same room with the man. I believe he chose them, they haven't chosen him. Mr. Paul is intelligent enough to understand D is not even close to his base and the R's will see him as close enough for politics.

Libertarians amount to squat plus about nine voters. Appealing to solid Americans count. No religious fervor, go to church quietly. love your country the way it has been historically, honor our history. Let people spend their own money in the way they see fit, confiscation to fund socialist programs don't fly. Acknowledge we aren't perfect while at the same time knowing we are a damned site better than what comes in second place. If Ron Paul can motivate the same folks Ron Reagan motivated ... People tend to steer away from zeolots on both sides of the arguement. At our core we are a conservative country, conservatives need to remember that. no more progressive light.

[ironglow]

  In any case, I think RP hurt his candidacy with this stand.  Likely he will keep his Libertarian base and perhaps solidify it..but the conservative voters will likely look elsewhere. 

You may be right. We'd all benefit if those conservatives would think about things, instead of obediently sticking to dogma.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~```
  Yellow;
  Your arrogance is well understood..only you and your think-alikes have the thought process correct ! 
  Do you have clarity concerning how juvenile that statement sounds ?
   Most of us on this forum..assume that others think; even those who most vehemently disagree with us !

  " I think, therfore I am"  ..Descartes       
 

[yellowtail3]

  Yellow;

It's yellowtail3, Ironglow.

Your arrogance is well understood..only you and your think-alikes have the thought process correct ! 

Arrogant, am I? And this is well known?

I didn't know that I had any think-alikes. Cool - who are they?

Do you have clarity concerning how juvenile that statement sounds ?

I understand that you object to thoughts that you don't approve of, and more importantly... I understand that you're having trouble adjusting.

[ironglow]

  Yellow;

It's yellowtail3, Ironglow.

Your arrogance is well understood..only you and your think-alikes have the thought process correct ! 

Arrogant, am I? And this is well known?

I didn't know that I had any think-alikes. Cool - who are they?

Do you have clarity concerning how juvenile that statement sounds ?

I understand that you object to thoughts that you don't approve of, and more importantly... I understand that you're having trouble adjusting.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
  Yellow, here's your own statement;
     "You may be right. We'd all benefit if those conservatives would think about things, instead of obediently sticking to dogma."

    Your own statement accuse all who do not "lock step" with your line of thought ..do not think..that is arrogant !

  Who are your think-alikes ?  Obviously, it is anyone who also believe that all who do not "lock step" mentally with them..believe others don't "think"..again..arrogant !

[powderman]

IRONGLOW. YEP, true. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

  Yellow, here's your own statement;
     "You may be right. We'd all benefit if those conservatives would think about things, instead of obediently sticking to dogma."
Your own statement accuse all who do not "lock step" with your line of thought ..do not think..that is arrogant !

Relax, Bro. Ironglow... nothing in my post about "lock step" You're reading things that aren't there.

[Graybeard]

If you folks don't learn to talk to the TOPIC and not to the character of each other this one is gone and some of you might also be. If you get the impression I'm pissed that would be correct. Read the rules and follow them or stop posting to this forum.