Navy Breech Loaders?

[GGaskill]

Did the US Navy, in the immediate post-muzzle loader era (1865-1900, let's say) have any breech loading guns that were deployed in the same fashion as the muzzle loaders, say as pivot guns or broadside guns?  I know that most of the new development was in the direction of monitors and turrets but was all of it that way?

[jeeper1]

I sent you a PM.

[GGaskill]

Thanks, I read it.

[Frank46]

George, think that the early cruisers and battleships of the pre dreadnaught type did use breech loading breech loaders in side blisters (can't remember the correct name) These were for firing forward, midships and astern, something maybe like the Olympia class. Then again could be way off base here. Frank

[GGaskill]

I think those mounts were called casemates, similar to the installations in the early masonry forts.

[dominick]

George,  I'm not quite sure what you mean by pivot guns but the US Navy used Hotchkiss rapid fire guns in the late 19th century.

Here's a link. Item # 4017     http://www.spanamwar.com/storeartillery.htm

[seacoastartillery]

    The USS Michigan had four of these 4.2" Breechloading Parrotts in 1885.  These rifles were mounted two on a side in Broadside Marsilly Carriages.  Do these meet all of your criteria?





If you want to look at other interesting guns or facts about the U.S. ship Michigan follow the link below:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,183220.msg1098895326.html#msg1098895326

Tracy

[GGaskill]

That would certainly fit the broadside guns requirement.  Now how about a pivot gun?

My understanding of what I mean as a pivot gun is a large gun mounted on the centerline of the ship that was capable of being aimed in almost any direction.  The mount would probably be similar to a center pivot mount as used in the coastal forts.

I am not talking about a swivel gun as used in the 18th century and earlier.

[dominick]

There were breechloading guns with barbette mounts on top of turn tables. 
Link. http://cityofart.net/bship/barbette.html

I may have jumped the gun.  I just read the link after I posted it and these are British, French and Italian naval armaments.

[dominick]

  I have the book,  " NAVAL GUNS" 500 years of ship and coastal artillery, by Hans Mehl.  On page 85, it shows a what looks to be a pivot gun.  It is a 6" 40 caliber that was mounted on the deck of the USS Maine.  There is also a 7" ship gun on page 88 but it is a later version. This 7" gun looks very close to the earlier 6 inch gun from the late 1890's that is at Fort Miles. [photo below]   Some of these naval ship guns from the Spanish American War were used as coastal guns during World War One & Two.

[cannonmn]

The USN converted many of the 20 pounder bronze rifles to breechloaders.   The 20 pdr. bronze rifle tube weighed about 1300 lbs. and the 20 pdr. heavy weighed about 1900.  I'm not sure whether any of the heavies were converted, as they were only in the fleet for a few years.

The 3-inch breechloading steel howitzers of 350 and 500 lbs. are usually seen on field carriages but shipboard broadside type carriages were also used; there is one that only showed up recently in the Washington Navy Yard, and a few others that just came out of storage and are on display at a Tidewater, VA naval facility.  I have photos somewhere.  The bronze howitzers of the same configuration may or may not have been on such carriages.  Very few of them were manufactured and I've only ever seen them on the three-wheeled landing (field-type) carriages.

[cannonmn]

Here are some pix of a working model of an 1890's USN(?) deck gun.  The barrel and breech measure 17 inches long.  The breech, firing mech, train and elevation, sights, and recoil/counterrecoil systems are functional.  If anyone figures out exactly what caliber/model of gun this is represents, please let me know.  Use password "attack" if asked, to view photos.

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/Forums59/Naval%20Gun%20Model%201103/?albumview=slideshow

[GGaskill]

Thanks for the additional info but I am really looking for something like the converted Parrotts mentioned above (could be Dahlgrens, too) that would have been used on some kind of pivot/barbette mount.  Doing research for a possible breech loading salute gun project.

Thanks.

[dominick]

There is a Parrott breech loader conversion with iron Marsilly carriage on display somewhere.  Photos below.    Does anyone know where this is located?  Looks like a town center?

[Cannoneer]

Here are some pix of a working model of an 1890's USN(?) deck gun.  The barrel and breech measure 17 inches long.  The breech, firing mech, train and elevation, sights, and recoil/counterrecoil systems are functional.  If anyone figures out exactly what caliber/model of gun this is represents, please let me know.  Use password "attack" if asked, to view photos.

http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b62/cannonmn/miscforumsetc/Forums59/Naval%20Gun%20Model%201103/?albumview=slideshow

That's one heck of a model; how would you describe it (presentation, hobbyist's one of a kind, etc.)?

[cannonmn]

>how would you describe it (presentation, hobbyist's one of a kind, etc.)?

Unfortunately there was absolutely no information about where it came from.  It is one of the best/most detailed I've seen, but not a spec of ID on it anywhere, not a single letter or number, so guesswork is all we have.  Maybe someday we'll find a full-sized piece it replicates. 

[GGaskill]

OK, we have established that the Navy used breech conversion Parrotts.  So were any of the Dahlgrens converted to breech loading?  Maybe XI inch Dahlgrens to 8" rifled cannon as were the Parrotts and Rodmans?

[Double D]

If the Parrots we supposed to be such bad-defective why were they converted to breech loaders?

[seacoastartillery]

     Double D.,   The 30 Pdr. Parrott Siege Rifles, (4.2 Inch) were some of the most long lived artillery of the Civil War.  Virtually all of these long range rifles survived
far beyond the 1,000 round limit that Federal forces placed on the line service of cast iron guns.  One 30 Pdr. used in the siege of Charleston's Fort Sumter fired
over 4,000 rounds without a problem.  Hence, it was the piece chosen to convert.  I've read that several of the 150 Pdr. Parrotts were also converted, because,
with the exception of the "Swamp Angel", they also were considered to be very reliable.  After all, they were chosen to accompany the 11" Dahlgren Shell Guns in
Monitor Turrets, because of the lack of 15" Dahlgren availability.  The Monitor Lehigh is a good example; it was in many battles and bombardments without any
problem from it's 8" Parrott Rifle.

Tracy

[shooter2]

Cannonmn,
                 Found this, close but probably not it exactly. 


Perhaps your gun is English in origin?

shooter2

(Mod note-use BBcode when linking form Photobucket)

[Cannoneer]

The 3-inch breechloading steel howitzers of 350 and 500 lbs. are usually seen on field carriages but shipboard broadside type carriages were also used; there is one that only showed up recently in the Washington Navy Yard, and a few others that just came out of storage and are on display at a Tidewater, VA naval facility.  I have photos somewhere.  The bronze howitzers of the same configuration may or may not have been on such carriages.  Very few of them were manufactured and I've only ever seen them on the three-wheeled landing (field-type) carriages.

See reply #21
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,218807.0.html
 
John,
If you happen to run across those photos, I'm sure that there are more than a few of us that would appreciate being able to view them.

 

[GGaskill]

Are there any known photos or drawings of the breech mechanisms of the converted Parrotts shown above?

Thanks.

[OoooOOoo1010010]

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