Author Topic: 6.5x55 Cow elk (Read 9083 times)

bigswede · « **Reply #30 on:** August 19, 2011, 03:07:25 AM »

Congrats on the tag!!! Sounds like a fun hunt. Shoot the elk in the lungs with the little swede rifle with a 140 or bigger bullet and the elk with most likely fall over in its tracks. All the elk I have shot died easier than rutted up whitetail bucks. Enjoy your hunt.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #31 on:** August 19, 2011, 06:53:38 PM »

As I said, don't be afraid of using your Swede for elk. We used to laugh at the "dudes" when I guided elk in COlorado when they talked about how you needed a big gun for elk. And also DO NOT try for a head or neck shot unless very very close with a relaxed animal. That is the silliest advice I have ever heard.

nomosendero · « **Reply #32 on:** August 19, 2011, 07:29:59 PM »

I know a DRT shot was the intent with the head shot comment, but that is not in the works.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #33 on:** August 20, 2011, 05:56:07 AM »

Those that hunt elk where elk live, as opposed to those that are experts in other forms of elk hunting, know that everyonce in awhile a head or neck shot is all that is going to be presented, and taking that shot is the difference between filling your elk tag or going home with the knowledge you're going to be eating porkchops and chicken all winter...
And the op was worried about the elk getting away. ANYbody with real elk experience knows that no matter what the cartridge, the cost of the bullet or how bad your eyes cross when you yank the trigger, most of the time on a heart/lung shot an elk is going to take off, either with a head down stumbling walk, or a full out lunging gallop. How far that dead elk goes is dependant an alot of factors that no amount of internet bluster is going to predetermine.
So If you're in a situation where the elk needs to stop right there, its either a head/neck/spine hit, or a heart/lung shot and a prayer, or pass on the shot.

nomosendero · « **Reply #34 on:** August 20, 2011, 06:04:42 AM »

Quote from: Ranch13 on August 20, 2011, 05:56:07 AM

Those that hunt elk where elk live, as opposed to those that are experts in other forms of elk hunting, know that everyonce in awhile a head or neck shot is all that is going to be presented, and taking that shot is the difference between filling your elk tag or going home with the knowledge you're going to be eating porkchops and chicken all winter...
And the op was worried about the elk getting away. ANYbody with real elk experience knows that no matter what the cartridge, the cost of the bullet or how bad your eyes cross when you yank the trigger, most of the time on a heart/lung shot an elk is going to take off, either with a head down stumbling walk, or a full out lunging gallop. How far that dead elk goes is dependant an alot of factors that no amount of internet bluster is going to predetermine.
So If you're in a situation where the elk needs to stop right there, its either a head/neck/spine hit, or a heart/lung shot and a prayer, or pass on the shot.

And of course if that is what's presented, that's fine. One thing for sure, I am not worried about the penetration of a 140 Partition. So, what I was refering to earlier was and is still
is in my view, I don't think the head or neck shot is something we will plan on with a normal shot opportunity, but if that is what she has, she will take it.
And yes, in the woods you don't always get what you want.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #35 on:** August 20, 2011, 06:27:47 AM »

The biggest thing I don't like about those liteweight partitions, is they tend to shed the front, and while the metal cased base of the bullet surely does penetrate, it leaves the same size hole on exit as it does on entry, and when we're talking under 38 caliber holes, it doesn't take long for the thick underfur and long guard hairs on an elks hide to stop and external bleeding, and you're left to tracking and finding spots of blood.That in itself isn't bad in snow conditions, unless it's snowing heavy at the time, but can be a real gut wrencher in dry and dusty conditions.
I've also come to the firm belief, after killing somewhere near 50 head of elk and seeing many more than that get shot, that exits on elk aren't always the best thing, and usually when the bullet ends up as a lump under the hide on the far side, the elk will be recovered closer to the original point of impact.

BBF · « **Reply #36 on:** August 20, 2011, 07:22:30 AM »

The shape of the wound channel differs somewhat from cup&core vs controlled expansion types.
The Nosler PT will loose the front 1/3 in most cases and is designed to do so while creating a cone shaped bullet channel. As the bullet slows within the body cavity the wound channel is reduced again to approx bullet diameter until it exits.
I don't know how to get a huge exit unless you use a much larger dia, bullet or a heavy for game projectile that still carries enough velocity to create the large wound channel.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #37 on:** August 20, 2011, 08:08:13 AM »

I tend to like exit holes. Having been a bowhunter far longer than a gun hunter, I put high stock in a sucking chest wound. Many studies I've read cite this as the main cause of rapid death from an arrow wound. Collapse the lungs and the animal actually passes out from oxygen deprivation long before bleeding out. I had a .30 NP do exactly as was earlier described on a 35yd shot. In .30 and out .30 VERY little blood for 50yds then a dead elk. The bullet went in at the point of elbow area and exited in front of ham. Much devastation in chest area and less and less as it passed. The point being, bullet placement was key even on that gimme shot, cause tracking would have been very tough.

To ranch 13's point I shot a nice bull with a 45-70 leverevolution round. Bullet bounced off far rib staying in the chest cavity. That animal strolled about 15 steps, his head fell and so did he. I do like that big ol' bullet, but the gun ain't for every hunting situation I find myself in.

Neural shock from the bullet is a great thing but if it does not occur from less than adequite bullet placement you can be in for a long day. I do not trust myself to make a good to perfect shot every time

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #38 on:** August 24, 2011, 04:10:23 AM »

I shot a cow with a 180 gr. RN from an '06 at fairly short range years ago. The bullet angled from just behind the diaphragm through the chest and did not exit. The cow squatted at the shot, recovered, and bolted up hill in the timber. As I recall now she piled up no more than 150 yards later, maybe less.

But there was precious little blood trail until just before she dropped. I tracked her by following the scuff marks in dry dirt and old pine needles. I was coming down with the flu that day and remember being very anxious about the lack of blood and chance of losing the elk when in actuality it all turned out just fine. Except for being sick as a dog for the next week.

That incident led me to buy a 35 Whelen -- I wanted an exit wound and better blood trail. These many years later I can tell you that there are no guarantees with elk. The Whelen will pass through any deer or antelope, but not necessarily an elk every time.

Sharpen your marksmanship AND your woodcraft. Pick your shots carefully. Plan on tracking dead elk, with or without good blood sign, dry or wet, sunshine or snow, exit wound or not. '06, 280 Rem., 6.5X55, 35 Whelen, and 444 Marlin have all worked for me. Some elk dropped, some flopped, some flew (for a little ways). But they all eventually rode home in my truck.

BBF · « **Reply #39 on:** August 24, 2011, 11:19:17 AM »

It is their last ride that counts.

I've never hunted elk but took several moose. Four were no step or just a few. Out of the four two hit the spine(not on purpose I admit). One with a 243 Win the other with a 30-06. The third was a neck shot from the 35 Rem to finish a crippled moose that someone else shot at first and broke the front leg.

The third was with a 444 Marlin. The bull swapped ends took one or two steps and fell down. I could actually see a geyser of blood on the entrance side. The recovered 265 gr Hdy measured approx. 3/4 inch across the expanded portion.

The rest were shot with a 30-06 or 35 Rem

Ranch13 · « **Reply #40 on:** August 24, 2011, 11:40:15 AM »

Here's an elk a friend of mine shot with his soninlaws 243 a few years ago in my south pasture. First shot hit him broadside at 210 yds, second shot hit him within and inch of the first and the 3rd shot missed as went went over him as he fell. Entire episode took about as long as it takes an old marine corp trained rifleman to work the bolt for 3 rounds, the elk covered maybe 30 yds, and left a blood trail from the blood coming out his nose a blind man could of followed.

Jim had to buy Dave a new Ruger 77 in 7x57 to get his 243 back.

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #41 on:** August 27, 2011, 04:34:53 AM »

From experiance do not use the Hornady 160 round nose . your are better off with a premium 140 gr.

???Care to elaborate? I have a '94 Swede rebarrled with a surplus (new) barrel shortened to 23". This 7" twist gun positively dotes on the Hornady 160 RN, and I've fallen in love with the rifle/load combo for U.P. whitetails. What kind of problems did you have with the bullet?

PC

BBF · « **Reply #42 on:** August 27, 2011, 04:46:15 AM »

$:-\$
I've got a bunch of those 160 gr. Hdys as well but haven't shot or even loaded them.

john keyes · « **Reply #43 on:** August 27, 2011, 07:00:47 AM »

I vote 140, can even be a softpoint. shoot only broadside, through both lungs. pick one load, make about a hundred of them, get rid of all your other loads, practice at 100 and 200. I'd rather see somebody go shoot a particular load and rifle 5 different days shooting 10 rounds each time than one time shooting 50 rounds. check the load when its hot outside and when its cold outside. get the scope on and leave it alone. from that point on, just shoot and see where its hitting.

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #44 on:** August 27, 2011, 06:43:47 PM »

Ranch13 -- Semper fi! Motivation and adrenaline can make a bolt gun sound like a semi-auto, for sure, as in the incident related next.

PeterC. -- I have shot exactly one spike bull with the 160 RN Hdy bullet. Load was under book max, shot from M700 Classic 6.5X55, but range was short -- under 50 yds.

I found out later the bullet completely disintegrated on the upper front leg bone just below the joint with shoulder blade as the animal walked quartering toward me. The little bull was dazed but kept his feet and staggered even closer to me. A second shot went into the chest. The bull came to a stop after a couple more steps and stood head down. Third shot broke the neck.

The first bullet never entered the chest cavity. I know this is a single incident but when boning out that shoulder I was shocked to see how the bullet failed so totally. A standard 140 grain bullet may have performed no better under the same circumstances. But why give up the better trajectory of the 140 if the 160 can be stopped by a leg bone?

JD338 · « **Reply #45 on:** August 28, 2011, 03:04:16 PM »

I think the 140 gr PT would be a fine choice for your wife's 6.5x55.
I just picked up a 6.5mm Rem Mag earlier this year and have been playing with the 125 gr PT and the 130 gr AB.
I recovered these 125 gr PT's from the 5th water jug at 100 yds.

This 130 gr AB was recovered from the 6th water jug at 300 yds.

JD338

nomosendero · « **Reply #46 on:** August 28, 2011, 03:31:16 PM »

JD, thanks for the pics. We are finally breaking out of the 100+ temps with high humidity, so the testing will start soon. Her Deer load with the 125 Partition does well, but I will test the 140 Part. & it will be the choice if it shoots in her rifle.

JD338 · « **Reply #47 on:** August 28, 2011, 06:25:20 PM »

nomosendero,

The 140 gr PT is a very good choice. The front end is soft so you will get expansion at lower velocities and you will get deep penetration. Congratulations to your bride for pulling the tag.

JD338

nomosendero · « **Reply #48 on:** August 28, 2011, 06:40:28 PM »

Thanks, she is very excited about it. She's doing alot of walking now & some light weightlifting
to get ready.

Sweet 6.5 · « **Reply #49 on:** August 28, 2011, 08:52:31 PM »

This is were the hunt starts, I just love it!!

(I think I might be addicted to this whole hunting thing!! )

PeterCartwright · « **Reply #50 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:13:10 PM »

Quote from: WyoStillhunter on August 27, 2011, 06:43:47 PM

Ranch13 -- Semper fi! Motivation and adrenaline can make a bolt gun sound like a semi-auto, for sure, as in the incident related next.

PeterC. -- I have shot exactly one spike bull with the 160 RN Hdy bullet. Load was under book max, shot from M700 Classic 6.5X55, but range was short -- under 50 yds.

I found out later the bullet completely disintegrated on the upper front leg bone just below the joint with shoulder blade as the animal walked quartering toward me. The little bull was dazed but kept his feet and staggered even closer to me. A second shot went into the chest. The bull came to a stop after a couple more steps and stood head down. Third shot broke the neck.

The first bullet never entered the chest cavity. I know this is a single incident but when boning out that shoulder I was shocked to see how the bullet failed so totally. A standard 140 grain bullet may have performed no better under the same circumstances. But why give up the better trajectory of the 140 if the 160 can be stopped by a leg bone?

Thanks, WSH. Your experience would indicate the Hornady bullet must be more fragile than I thought. I believe the Norma 156 gr. is the load of choice for our Scandihoovian hunter brothers when they use their 6.5's for "elg" (moose). The Norma bullet must be stouter.

I've had wonderful experiences with the Hornady bullet on whitetails, but, that's a whole different "animule" than wapiti. My mil/surp barrel absolutely loves the bullet. Also, in my neck of Michigan's Upper Peninsula, it's challenging to shoot more than 50 yards, so range simply isn't an issue.

I've throughly enjoyed your posts over the years. Thanks for the input.

PC

Ranch13 · « **Reply #51 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:36:44 PM »

Stillhunter a friend of mine had a 5x walk out of the brush about 15 yds from him. He shot that bull 3 times before he hit the ground with a 7 mag. I was about 1/2 mile away and above on the mtn and it sounded almost like someones selfshucker went full auto.
We had a good time teasing him about his full auto bolt gun for the next few years at elk camp.

Been looking at your dead elk pictures, that timber sure looks like the stuff on the west side of Battle Pass...

swifty22 · « **Reply #52 on:** August 30, 2011, 07:51:56 PM »

Hunters-I only have exp, with a 260 Rem. but a few bullets on WT deer. I loaded all rounds to hunting. max. ( full power, easy ext., tight pockets., ect). The Nosler 125's are really hard on the steaks (but really good killers), The 140 Speer hot cores are easier on the steaks and have always gone on through no matter the angle, as did the Nosler PT's. I have to tell anyone reading that a "pass through" is the very highest thing on my list for a hunting bullet. I am an old/odd bullet guy as WT deer are really not that hard to kill and use old/odd bullets every year. To make this a bit more relative I used a 175 gr Hornady RN made in the mid 1960's ( I bought them in high school) last year on my 3pt WT w/a 7x57 and I-4350. Was facing me 3/4 left at about 30 yards, it went in to the left shoulder blade, along and under the spine and stopped just short of the right hind quarter. The core was loose in the bullet jacket with penetration of about 25". He went about another 30 yards w/ no blood trail ( there was 4" new snow) but the snow/duff was really torn up all the way to him. From what I am reading above about the 160 gr. 6.5 RN it is very similar. I will not be using that 175 RN again but was really glad I did for old times! I have used the 160 Speer Hot Core in the 7x57 and have always had it go through no matter the angle on deer. In the last few years I have used a 260 gr. cast HP in a 375/06 Ackley, an orig 250 Barnes in a 340 Wby., a 1960's 140 Nosler Part. in a 7x57, and a home made 300 gr, bullet made from a .223 case filled w/cast lead in the 375/06 Ackley. All of them went cleanly through and the animal (all WT bucks) went less than 30 yds w/good blood trails snow or no. I have a bunch of Western Tool and Copper 7 mm bullets in 160-170 and 180 weights and may use one this year on my buck. Bob Hagel said that they are poor penetrators (sp?) but he hunted w/ Elmer Keith with them and who is to say I can't. Be lucky my friends-Muddy

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #53 on:** August 31, 2011, 06:25:14 PM »

PeterC,

Thanks. It's fun to share a story now and then.

Ranch13,

Not in the Battle Pass area. This hunt was in the Savage Run Wilderness a little west of Rob Roy Resevoir and east of the Platte River in the Snowy Range. I shot the spike about a mile from the road and snow wasn't deep but it was late afternoon. With driving time to and from home and being all alone it still took me most all of the next day to get the meat back to the house.

I got skunked in 2010...never saw a hair of an elk although I heard them in the dark. Hoping for better luck this year.

Ranch13 · « **Reply #54 on:** August 31, 2011, 06:53:32 PM »

That's some rugged country in there. I remember hunting that before it was wilderness..

Missed a huge bull one time just north of Rob on Elk creek, but that meadow where he was napping in the willows when I kicked him up is now full of cabins.

Good luck to you this fall. I'm not sure yet if I'll go after a real elk or not. I have a type 6 for here at the house tho just in case I get the urge.

Sweet 6.5 · « **Reply #55 on:** October 18, 2011, 08:32:56 PM »

Is everything still on track for the hunt?
Did you test the 140 gr NP?

nomosendero · « **Reply #56 on:** October 21, 2011, 04:23:30 PM »

Quote from: Sweet 6.5 on October 18, 2011, 08:32:56 PM

Is everything still on track for the hunt?
Did you test the 140 gr NP?

Got them in last week. It is MZ season now, I will start loading after next weekend. The hunt is Dec. 5th.

thanks

Sweet 6.5 · « **Reply #57 on:** December 03, 2011, 08:52:51 PM »

The day is here. Happy hunting.

BBF · « **Reply #58 on:** December 06, 2011, 08:57:45 AM »

I did have the chance to use that 160 gr Hdy bullet on my recent hunt.

Range: less then 30 yards
Deer: button buck probably no more then 100 lb on the hoof.
MV 2200 fps.

The bullet demolished a rib going in causing a fairly large area of bloodshot meat extending into the shoulder. The off side didn't do well either there was an exit hole and contrary to normal expectation that hole was smaller then the entrance. We found only a very small piece of the jacket inside that came from the side of the bullet because the rifling is visible. I was surprised how thin and brittle the material was.
This is not at all what I suspected. Now I'm in a pickle, that bullet groups very well with several different load levels.

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #59 on:** December 08, 2011, 05:06:48 PM »

Can't wait to hear the story...