Author Topic: Motorcyclist dies in crash protesting helmet law. (Read 1183 times)

powderman · « **on:** July 05, 2011, 01:05:45 PM »

http://news.yahoo.com/motorcyclist-crashes-helmet-law-protest-dies-120444840.html

Well DUUUUUUUHHHHH, died of head injuries. POWDERMAN.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #1 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:03:08 PM »

Quote from: powderman on July 05, 2011, 01:05:45 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/motorcyclist-crashes-helmet-law-protest-dies-120444840.html
Well DUUUUUUUHHHHH, died of head injuries. POWDERMAN.

I guess I'm slow; I don't see anything so smile about here.

Condolences to that man's family and friends.

lakota · « **Reply #2 on:** July 05, 2011, 02:08:59 PM »

No one has any business telling someone else that they have to wear a helmet or a seat belt or a life jacket or anything like that. These behaviors may be smart but they should be a personal choice and not a mandate.

XD40SC · « **Reply #3 on:** July 05, 2011, 03:08:24 PM »

Those behaviors don't only effect that one person. There are also families that suffer alot of hurt because someone is too stubborn to do the safe thing. Plus in the case of serious head trauma- the constant care someone needs is eventually usually paid for by the government either state or federal. I've seen it happen too many times. That comes out of our pockets.

gr8ful · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2011, 03:13:05 PM »

Quote from: lakota on July 05, 2011, 02:08:59 PM

No one has any business telling someone else that they have to wear a helmet or a seat belt or a life jacket or anything like that. These behaviors may be smart but they should be a personal choice and not a mandate.

+1 Personally I wear mine, but everyone should be free to make their own choice.

powderman · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2011, 05:00:21 PM »

yellow. I do feel sorry for the family, look again, that is not a smile.
Personally I hated wearing a helmet but I did it because it was the law in Ill when I lived there. Truthfully I knew it was a good idea to wear it, but hated being told I had to. POWDERMAN.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2011, 05:33:19 PM »

Quote from: lakota on July 05, 2011, 02:08:59 PM

No one has any business telling someone else that they have to wear a helmet or a seat belt or a life jacket or anything like that. These behaviors may be smart but they should be a personal choice and not a mandate.

But when it raises the cost of MY insurance ....
Cracks me up to see the guys wearing the half helmet.... their head is not worth much to them.

All in all it is just nature's way of weeding out the dumb ones

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2011, 05:35:29 PM »

Quote from: XD40SC on July 05, 2011, 03:08:24 PM

Those behaviors don't only effect that one person. There are also families that suffer alot of hurt because someone is too stubborn to do the safe thing. Plus in the case of serious head trauma- the constant care someone needs is eventually usually paid for by the government either state or federal. I've seen it happen too many times. That comes out of our pockets.

More or less this is what I was trying to get across.
again... if the life of a vegetable sounds appealing to you then helmets are optional
At least he died for his belief

Hooker · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2011, 06:54:40 PM »

Quote from: XD40SC on July 05, 2011, 03:08:24 PM

Those behaviors don't only effect that one person. There are also families that suffer alot of hurt because someone is too stubborn to do the safe thing. Plus in the case of serious head trauma- the constant care someone needs is eventually usually paid for by the government either state or federal. I've seen it happen too many times. That comes out of our pockets.

People are killed and injured in hunting accidents, car races, bunjee jumping, bicycle riding, rodeos, .... . maybe you think we should force government safety in to all the aspects of our lives.
It's none of the governments business and they should have never set a system that would pay for anything that the government did not cause.
If a person lives their life the way they pleases and dies because of it that was that person's right.
There is only one person responsible for your safety the same person that you see in the mirror.
No government agency is burdened with our safety legally or morally .
Seat belt and helmet laws exist only to control the populace and generate revenue for the state.

Pat

goofyoldfart · « **Reply #9 on:** July 05, 2011, 10:41:27 PM »

[

People are killed and injured in hunting accidents, car races, bunjee jumping, bicycle riding, rodeos, .... . maybe you think we should force government safety in to all the aspects of our lives.
It's none of the governments business and they should have never set a system that would pay for anything that the government did not cause.
If a person lives their life the way they pleases and dies because of it that was that person's right.
There is only one person responsible for your safety the same person that you see in the mirror.
No government agency is burdened with our safety legally or morally .
Seat belt and helmet laws exist only to control the populace and generate revenue for the state.

Pat

Hooker : I agree with what you have said In Total------------------But when I rode my cycle, I chose to wear a helmet (and boots, gloves and a leather jacket even in summer) because I felt it is the only safe sensible thing to do and that I had a child and wife. I ain't pretty enough as it is so getting my head bashed without a helmet wouldn't likely to make me look any prettier.

Just my .02cents worth on how I value me (and family). God Bless to all.

goofyoldfart

magooch · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:14:04 AM »

What would you bet that a high percentage of those who believe government is right in insisting that bike riders, boaters, swimmers etc. be compliant with all sorts of safety measures, have no problem with legalizing drugs. The very same rationalizing that says that motorcycle riders who get injured are a burden on society, somehow isn't applicable to drug users?
For the record, I wear my helmet whether riding a bicycle, or motorcycle and I wear my pfd when I'm kayaking, but not because some government says I have to; it's because I want to.

GRIMJIM · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:28:44 AM »

Quote from: Hairtrigger on July 05, 2011, 05:33:19 PM

Quote from: lakota on July 05, 2011, 02:08:59 PM
No one has any business telling someone else that they have to wear a helmet or a seat belt or a life jacket or anything like that. These behaviors may be smart but they should be a personal choice and not a mandate.

Cracks me up to see the guys wearing the half helmet.... their head is not worth much to them.

Many choose to wear the half helmet as it protects the vulnerable crown on the head and should there be any kind of neck injury it is easier to remove without doing harm than a full helmet.

MGMorden · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2011, 06:44:12 AM »

Quote

Many choose to wear the half helmet as it protects the vulnerable crown on the head and should there be any kind of neck injury it is easier to remove without doing harm than a full helmet.

Not only that, but if the studies show that it's sufficient, why go for more?

It always cracks me up when I hear people say "Buy a $20 helmet only if you have a $20 head.". Ok, so how much did you pay for YOUR helemt? $200? Guess you only have a $200 head. If that logic made a bit of sense we'd all be financing our helmets with payment plans because obviously my head is priceless so my helmet should be too right?

All in all, it only makes sense to determine a sufficient level of protection and buy that (or more, if you want). If a $20 helmet is sufficient, so be it. If a half-helmet is sufficient, so be it.

That said, I'm in complete agreement with those that maintain that any of this is an individual's personal choice. I wear my seatbelt every time I get in my car, but I'm vehemently opposed to seatbelt laws. Just because I do it anyways doesn't mean I want somebody telling me I HAVE to do it. I'm against helmet laws too - same thing. I don't personally own a motorcycle, but I do have a bicycle and every time I'm on it I'm wearing a helmet - even though there's no law requiring it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2011, 07:02:11 AM »

Quote from: lakota on July 05, 2011, 02:08:59 PM

No one has any business telling someone else that they have to wear a helmet or a seat belt or a life jacket or anything like that. These behaviors may be smart but they should be a personal choice and not a mandate.

That would be true except we pool our moneys in the form of insurance . I don't care to pay for someons injury if it could have been avoided. If they aren't smart enough to know then law is needed.

Hooker · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2011, 08:37:36 AM »

Who are you to decide the level of peoples intelligence ?
What gives anyone or any group the authority to force others to live the same sheltered boring lives they do?
That all sounds like socialism to me.
They make the same argument about firearms.

Pat

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:37:39 AM »

Well if you buy insurance because you are required to by law then you should have some say in safety requirements to protect you from rising cost. Now If insurance companies had not of lobbied for and got laws requireing both seat belts and helments and instead made it part of the contract ie; if you are injured while not wearing either then you void your policy it would be different. BUT they took the chickens way out and got big brother to do their dirty wook so they would not lose customers.
I agree it sounds like socialism. BTW I don't decide peoples inteligence I just note what inteligence they display !
Now how on earth can insurance rates and safety requirement arguments be compared with gun ownership ?

MGMorden · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:48:03 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on July 06, 2011, 09:37:39 AM

Now how on earth can insurance rates and safety requirement arguments be compared with gun ownership ?

If gun ownership is shown to result in a higher than average number of accidents or dangers compared to non-ownership then a precedent would already be set via seatbelt laws stating that given that it opens you up to a greater risk, the activity should be prohibited by law.

The same could be extended at will. I'd be willing to bet that those with a swimming pool in their back yard have a slightly higher risk of drowning. No need to let people put themselves in harms way for a recreational activity.

I'd wager those those that those to drive personal transportation devices rather than take public transit are at a higher risk of being involved in an accident. Unless you can document a specific need you will not be able to get a drivers license.

I'd be willing to bet that hunting from a tree entails a greater risk than hunting from the ground. We should mandate harnesses - or better yet just outlaw treestands.

Once you take that step to say its OK to let the government dictate how we live our lives "for our own good", then you've already lost all hope of maintaining your freedoms. You've written away your rights as a person to say that you're only free to do what those in power are willing to let you do, which basically means it's not freedom at all.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:53:51 AM »

If we insured our use of guns maybe but we do not . The point is we all pay to insure each other while driving so safety is nessary to keep some idoit from hurting himself and the rest of us paying for it.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2011, 10:09:44 AM »

There is another issue here. You drive on a PUBLIC (state) right of way. You can do drugs at home, same with drinking. If you drive and drink, it is illegal. Why, because you can not only kill yourself, but someone else. Helment laws and seat belt laws, true, only affect the person wearing them, but you do drive on a PUBLIC right of way. The state can set their own regulations on their right of ways.

Shu · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2011, 11:42:28 AM »

I am oppossed to helmet laws and seat belt laws. I wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle and a seatbelt when I am in a car. It is a safety device. I don't feel the government should tell me what to do in these cases. If I go into a machine shop without safety glasses and loose an eye who's fault is that? The machinist for doing his job or mine for being an idiot? Do I really need the government to tell me about personal safety?
I and I alone am responsible for my safety.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 06, 2011, 01:27:47 PM »

Quote from: Shu on July 06, 2011, 11:42:28 AM

Do I really need the government to tell me about personal safety?
I and I alone am responsible for my safety.

Amen! Easy to tell from the responses here who rides and who doesn't. A full face helmet might protect you in the case of a crash but it impedes your hearing and vision so you aren't aware 100% of whats around you. I would rather see granny out of the corner of my eye BEFORE she cuts me off rather than be glad I had a helmet on after I crashed. Sorry to hear about the guy going down, but he died doing what he loved. No one can say if he would have lived had he had been wearing a bucket, there are too many details left out of the story. It's funny how some of you are only against gov't intervention when it affects you, but then are quick to encourage more laws when they are against something you don't do, like helmet laws or aftermarket pipes or baiting deer or crossbows in archery season or scopes on muzzleloaders...........

torpedoman · « **Reply #21 on:** July 06, 2011, 02:20:37 PM »

pro helmet, anti law, here. The thing that killed this guy is that he did not know how to operate his bike, rear fishtailing then throwing him over the bars , is a classic case of locking up the front brake. I'm absolutely positive that the cop that stated a helmet would have saved him has a masters in physics and conducted extensive tests on the neck strength of the victim to reach his conclusion. if you land on your head with any degree of force your neck breaks and you did from that but a good helmet will allow an open casket funeral.

mirage1988 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 06, 2011, 02:46:10 PM »

Like I said-there is more to the story.Just like the story of a lab that jumped to the the front of the duck boat stepping on the shotgun shooting the hunter who was in the water pulling the boat. Should we ban using a dog, a shotgun, a boat, live ammo, or hunting in genaral because of an accident? Depends on your perspective I guess.

Shu · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2011, 02:25:42 AM »

I work on a military base, there is a mandatory safety class, hard soled shoes, gloves, long pants, long sleave shirt or jacket, brightly colored vest or jacket and DOT approved helmet requirement. These things save lives. You want to ride on the base this is the requirement. Several years back a Navy Captain who also is a jet pilot decides he would buy a motorcycle. He took the class, had all his gear and rode succesfully. This is a guy who has flown at Mach 2, been shot at and by his own admission had done every dumb thing you could do in a jet. (he didn't go into detail) Anyway he went down one day wearing a half helmet. 37 stiches on his chin and a concussion later he decided the full face was the way to go. He recommended it to his troops but left the decision up to them.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #24 on:** July 07, 2011, 07:14:30 AM »

This is a human life we are discussing, and we need to be respectful of that. I trust that he was a good man and that he deserves our sympathy.

Everyone loves cautionary tales like this because of the irony and the tragedy of it. It's tragedy in the classic sense, where someone's personal weaknesses lead to his own demise. It doesn't have the classic appeal of Macbeth or Iphingenia At Aulis, but it's the kind of tragedy we all respond to. It's why we have sayings like "There but for the grace of God go I."

My head was spared a couple of times because I wore a helmet. Big scratches on a motorcycle helmet once. Impact while roller blading another time. Nobody needs to try to convince me of the value of helmets. Not likely to have been fatal, but concussion may have occurred. Looking at a messed up helmet and realizing "Hey! That could have been my head!" is a very sobering experience.

Strange twist department: I personally knew three guys that died because they were not wearing helmets, and frankly they deserved it. They all happened to be bad people who had done many bad things. That was in a place where helmets were required, but people who didn't like them would leave them unfastened, so that in the event of a collision, the helmet would just fall off.

Another point about helmets is that back when I was riding, I used a Bell Star for years. This was the helmet of choice for racers and people that wanted maximum protection from impact and abrasion. A great helmet in its day, the 1970s. It was learned about that time that a lot of guys wearing helmets in accidents suffered severe neck injuries. This was because the fiberglass helmets were heavy, so helmets were developed out of Lexan, a much lighter plastic. At the time there was some resistance to the lexan helmets because lexan deteriorates in the sun, and it becomes brittle over time. It was advisable to replace the helmet every couple of years. I imagine that's still true.

Emergency Medical Techs have specific training related to protecting the spinal column of people who are in crashes. This kind of injury doesn't just apply to motorcyclists. It's a serious concern for all accidents where the head gets knocked around.

Hairtrigger · « **Reply #25 on:** July 07, 2011, 07:29:45 AM »

Imagine the game of Football without helmets

Sourdough · « **Reply #26 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:06:56 AM »

Oh I love the feel of the wind in my hair while riding my bike without a helmet. No one has the right to tell me I can not do that. But I like my head without any modifications, so I always wear a helmet. With the Touring bike I wear a half helmet. With the Cruiser in Florida I wear a 3/4. With the Dirt bike, Sky and I wear full face helmets.

Sky just got back from Mt Aleyeska. A week of Mountain Biking with friends down the mountain, on the ski slopes. Tram to the top of the mountain then a differant trail each time to the bottom. (Death wish in my view). He wore a full face helmet and is real glad he had one on each time he crashed. The bar across his chin is full of bad abrasions, he said the first one could have been his chin. Without that full face, that one fall would have ended their week long trip. The other guys also took falls where their chin bars took significant damage. They were also wearing boots, shin guards, gloves, knee pads, elbow pads, shoulder pads, and chest protectors. The new Mt Bike is a lot worse for the wear. Needs a new rear wheel, crank, right brake lever, and brake pads.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #27 on:** July 07, 2011, 09:09:25 AM »

Quote from: Hairtrigger on July 07, 2011, 07:29:45 AM

Imagine the game of Football without helmets

It started off that way

billy_56081 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 07, 2011, 11:39:44 AM »

I love ironic humor.

MGMorden · « **Reply #29 on:** July 07, 2011, 02:12:02 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on July 07, 2011, 09:09:25 AM

Quote from: Hairtrigger on July 07, 2011, 07:29:45 AM
Imagine the game of Football without helmets
It started off that way

Indeed. Football helmets help, no doubt, but from back when I played in school 95% of what I needed a helmet for was when another helmet hit me. Same with the pads - they help, but realistically thick pads give less and will hurt an unpadded person more than being hit by another unpadded player.

Hence, safety gear begats more safety gear. Still probably a good idea, but no pads/helmets wouldn't be the blood-bath that you might assume. Just look at rugby - similar rulesets with plenty of similar physical contact and no helmets or heavy padding, and there's sure injuries, but not too excessive.