For all you oil drilling lovers

[ironglow]

  Yes; we definitely need jobs after what B Hussein has done to jobs around the country.  Obviously he figures a few thousand job drilling for oil for Brasil...are much more important than having those jopbs in the US.
   Naturally, that's his plan.."spread the wealth around".. take it from Americans and give it to nthe Brazilians..
     
  Same for our space program..lay off thousands and force our astronaughts to hitch a ride with the Russians..

[oldandslow]

DDZ stated the facts quite well. All I'm going to add is that I spent most of my adult life working in the oil industry and retired from a major oil company. We also did gas wells. I'm not really up to snuff on the latest regulation on the oil and gas industry now but they were very strict when I retired and have gotten even more strict in the last several years. It's a highly regulated industry with a great deal of government oversight. Yes, accidents can happen as they can in any industry devised by man. In my part of the world cleanup is swift and complete and it isn't just new spills. A lot of money has been spent cleaning up what was allowed in days gone by. The oil companies aren't the big, bad ogres many try to make them out to be. They are responsible corporate citizens but still get blamed for many things that they have absolutely no control over.

As to fracking all I have to say is it is an old and safe technology. It was in use long before I started working in the oilfield. I am fortunate to live in an area that has some of the best ground water you will find. The oilfield arrived here in the 1920s. The water was good then or so I'm told as I wasn't around yet to see for myself. It is still good today. I only know of one small area that has had contamination problems of the ground water and it had nothing to do with fracking. It was from the bad old days when companies were allowed by the state agencies that oversaw them to bury spills. That practice is ancient history and hasn't been allowed for many years.

[BUGEYE]

  Yes; we definitely need jobs after what B Hussein has done to jobs around the country.  Obviously he figures a few thousand job drilling for oil for Brasil...are much more important than having those jopbs in the US.
   Naturally, that's his plan.."spread the wealth around".. take it from Americans and give it to nthe Brazilians..
     
  Same for our space program..lay off thousands and force our astronaughts to hitch a ride with the Russians..

the space program here was dangerous work.  but would you want to take a ride on a tinfoil russian rocket?

[SHOOTALL]

Does careing for the earth mean not using what God gave us ? 

.
Don't know....Ask the Indians how they would treat Mother Earth.....I doubt they would defile her, or just go around acting like slobs.
 
BTW....there is alot of people that say PW Sound still isn't right.... I really don't know, and don't plan on looking for myself. Although, petroleum is a natural occurring substance, there are alot of naturallly occurring materials that will kill you dead. Most of the time the natural occurring substance of petroleum is not spewing around on top of the earth's crust.
 
BTW...its a pretty strange day when a guy like Guzzi expresses some concern about yet another oil spill in a nice area, likely knowing the oil corp is going to lie and avoid circumstances,,,and the bulk of the hunter-conservationist here give a pass to the corp and crticize the guy voicing concern....It just gets weirder and weirder....  
 
..TM7

lack of ambition .

[billy_56081]

I'm willing to bet some of the naysayers have never read an MSDS.

[BUGEYE]

I'm willing to bet some of the naysayers have never read an MSDS.

even schools have to fill  out those things because of what they use to clean the floor.

[Dixie Dude]

I work for a natural gas company and water is what they pump down the drill hole to hydraulically fracture the rock.  If there is anything else it is just maybe leaking hydraulic fluid from the pumps or engines.  Natural gas is just that, methane, same thing released from manure, or out of your own body.  It bubbles up through the fracture into the pipe to be captured, filtered, and piped into the natural gas transmission and distribution system.  Most fracturing is done over 8,000' and doesn't affect well water or surface areas.  However, some fracking was done in shallower wells early on, and there was problems with gas coming up into well water.  Drilling deeper solves this problem.  There is also a 30,000 year supply of natural gas about a mile deep in the Bermuda Triangle in natural gas hydrates.  Too deep to mine until we get some good robotic submarines.  This is trapped in rock on the sea floor, when it is brought up when the pressure is less it starts releasing the gas.

[SHOOTALL]

what do you fill out ? you get the sheet from the maker and place it in a file so it can be read by workers so they can work safe or sent with an accident victom so correct treatment can be given

[BUGEYE]

I wish the nay-sayers would take their paychecks and flush them down the sewer for about 3 months and then maybe they would have an idea how people feel who need jobs.
if I were a young man wanting a job and some greenie weenie was trying to keep me from getting it, somebody would get a good dustin'off.

[SHOOTALL]

Here in Va they hydro frack water wells to open passages and get more water. My dad had one done it was 435' deep as was another well 40' away . When they fracked it the top blew off the other well and the water went 40 ' into the air.

[jakeemt]

Not sure what makes me an eco freak. If it means I am a hunter and outdoorsman who finds god in the wild then yeah I guess I am. If it's because I believe in caring for these places and being a good steward then yeah I guess I am. I am certainly aware of the value of petroleum thank you hell I work in medicine it's in everything but, it isn't the end all be all energy source. Yeah it's hard to switch to viable alternatives and yes it takes sacrifice but, nothing worth doing I'd ever easy. Why not use ethanol? Are you aware that sugar cane is 10x more efficient than corn? Could be grown on a mass scale in the south eastern states + the caribean islands. Is it cheaper...no though not a lot more expensive. Will it propel us ahead of the curve and make america stronger, yes. That's what it's about. Practical solutions that keep america on top. Not a bunch of hysterical baloney about global warming (which likely is happening but so what, absolutely nothing can be done about it except adapt and change). Just because I believe in a diversified and stronger energy base for my country doesn't make me an eco freak and if it does I am proud to be one.

[billy_56081]

I don't care if sugar cane is 100 times more efficient than corn. Ehtanol is less efficient that gasoline. Take and burn pure gas for 5000 highway miles, then burn 10% ethanol for 5000 highway miles and report back your milage.

[BUGEYE]

do a little research on sugar cane farmers in fla and see what a disaster they caused which is now costing us billions to try and fix.  they almost ruined the everglades.

[ironglow]

I don't care if sugar cane is 100 times more efficient than corn. Ehtanol is less efficient that gasoline. Take and burn pure gas for 5000 highway miles, then burn 10% ethanol for 5000 highway miles and report back your milage.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   If it doesn't ruin your engine, that is...

[jakeemt]

Pretty sure everyone knows that. I guess you missed the point. When global oil shortages hit which would you rather be putting in your tank? Would you rather america be sitting pretty with a viable fuel source or have to scramble to catch up like everyone else when gas goes to 20 bucks a gallon? Think about it.

[ironglow]

  Yes; we definitely need jobs after what B Hussein has done to jobs around the country.  Obviously he figures a few thousand job drilling for oil for Brasil...are much more important than having those jopbs in the US.
   Naturally, that's his plan.."spread the wealth around".. take it from Americans and give it to nthe Brazilians..
     
  Same for our space program..lay off thousands and force our astronaughts to hitch a ride with the Russians..

the space program here was dangerous work.  but would you want to take a ride on a tinfoil russian rocket?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Bugeye, I think perhaps I didn't clarify very well..
   I was pointing out the administration's bonehead decision to kill the jobs of thousands of aerospace workers...and hand the employment to the Russians..

[ironglow]

Pretty sure everyone knows that. I guess you missed the point. When global oil shortages hit which would you rather be putting in your tank? Would you rather america be sitting pretty with a viable fuel source or have to scramble to catch up like everyone else when gas goes to 20 bucks a gallon? Think about it.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Jake, I believe you missed the point.. Right now, more than anything we need jobs. Bonehead shut down thousands of jobs in the Gulf and is refusing the opportunity to create REAL (non-govt) jobs in the Dakotas, Texas, Lousiana, Oklahoma, Alaska and offshore.  Every dollar earned is one less dollar sent to Venezuela or the Middle East..and used against us.
  You simply must understand marketing forces.  We need only open up the Dakotas or ANWR and that will depress oil prices for us.. If OPEC lowers prices we can buy from them..if they jack them up..we use our own.  That will settle oil prices.

[streak]

Do not forget the alternative which is being used already but not like it should, and that is natural gas! The technology is already developed for natural gas engines! They could even be built to be even more efficient and natural gas is much cheaper than gasoline! Of course you hear the old argument that we do not have the infrastructure to fuel all of the autos if we did start utilizing natural gas. Whoops! I guess if we started to construct the infrastructure that might create jobs, but the present mob in D.C. has little interest in this or they would have already seen the light!
Although Anadarko Petroleum,Chesapeake, and Encana are converting all of their fleet vehicles to natural gas which is a start. Running on natural gas would certainly cut down on oil demand and a lot less pollution!
 
 

[ironglow]

  Yes; we definitely need jobs after what B Hussein has done to jobs around the country.  Obviously he figures a few thousand job drilling for oil for Brasil...are much more important than having those jopbs in the US.
   Naturally, that's his plan.."spread the wealth around".. take it from Americans and give it to nthe Brazilians..  
     
 

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Looks like B Hussein's scheme is working out just as he planned:
 
  #1) Sink the value of our dollar..     
http://www.prisonplanet.com/dollar-hits-all-time-low-against-swiss-franc.html
 
  #2) Sink our economy by borrowing more billions..and handing it off to states like Brazil... to back up his "spread the wealth"
  ideaology..  http://news.yahoo.com/brazilian-currency-highest-level-since-1999-214505396.html
 
    So far, he has done a great job making the US poorer while enriching other nations..
 
   Thanks, B Hussein ...for what you are doing to our savings, 401K, IRA and regular income !

[Dixie Dude]

The natural gas infrastructure for vehicles is already in place.  Every city of any size in America has natural gas.  Our problem has been getting compressors installed at service stations.  We have already purchased natural gas vehicles made at the factories.  Natural gas utilities already use Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) in their vehicles.  Some city buses and trucks already run natural gas.  A few years ago Auburn, Alabama switched all their city vehicles to CNG.  Problems arose with the police cars in high speed chases.  All their vehicles were equiped with dual fuel, both gasoline and CNG.  If a police car was crusing around using CNG, and got into a high speed chase, and ran out of CNG, sometimes during the switchover the engine would stall out, have to be restarted with gasoline.  So they quit using CNG in police cars.  New technology has them switching automatically if you run out of CNG.  We order our vehicles from GM and Ford already made at the factories.  Before a service station agrees to install CNG, there must be a fleet of vehicles to use it so they can make money refueling.  So, fleets of utilities, UPS, Fedex, postal delivery, city garbage trucks, school buses, and city buses must agree to convert first.  With some type of federal tax incentive, they will.  Once most fleets use CNG, then it will trickle over to private vehicles.  You can already buy a home compressor to take the gas you get at your home, compress it for your own CNG vehicle. It is about the size of a water heater.  Range for dual fuel trucks that my company uses is about 100 miles on CNG before switching to gasoline.  This keeps us using about 90% CNG.  CNG can also be blended with diesel where a diesel engine uses as little as 10% diesel (for lubrication) and 90% CNG.  CNG is abou t$1.85 per gallon of gasoline equivelant, and we only import about 2% of natural gas, from Canada. 

[BUGEYE]

off topic, IG, I understood your meaning, my younger brother works at the cape as a security guard, his days there are numbered.  he has no bills, so he'll survive but the younger people there are going to be hurting.

[ironglow]

  I believe it is simply a matter of economics.  The most economical method for motive power is hydro-carbons..if the country were already set up for hydrogen or nat gas fueling everywhere..as it is set up for petroleum...there would be much more of those being used.
  One must invest a huge amount in a distribution and supply network before any real sales start...    Sorry, I don't see a nefarious plot behing every nation/international event!

[BUGEYE]

there's a natural gas compressor at the county gas station for fueling some state vehicles here and you can hear it running a mile away.  what a racket.  but it's cheaper than gasoline and cleaner.

[Dixie Dude]

Yes, the compressors can be loud and need to be put in a soundproof building.  The home compressors are about the same.  Put one in your garage to compress gas overnight for your car.  Honda makes a CNG car and gives you the compressor for your house, (about the size of a water heater), if you have gas in your house.  Run a gas line to it, and plug it up and it will compress your gas for you.  You have to pay a road tax once a year if you do this, because the government can't get their highway money like on gasoline.  CNG is actually about $1.34 per gallon, but with the road tax is about $1.85 per gallon.  Compressors at service stations could be installed in underground pits with steel lids to cut down on noise. 
 
However if we can get all fleets in America to convert, we could cut out 40% of imported oil.  If we converted to diesel on private cars and trucks like Germany, we could cut another 30% of imported oil.  Both can be done over a 10 year period.  This is several $100 billion dollars that would STAY in the USA every year instead of going overseas.  It would help unemployment, tax revenues for the governments, and health care, because permanent full time jobs within the gas industry would provide health care for these people. 
 
Only major problem, is gas pipelines would have to follow along interstates and US highways in mountain and plains states to provide the natural gas to service stations along the routes for cross country travelers.  East of the Mississippi is pretty well covered with natural gas and larger western and plains states cities.  This however would provide jobs for the steel pipe industry, welders, construction equipment operators, designers, civil engineers, surveyors, etc.  Good paying jobs. 

[BUGEYE]

Dixie Dude, that is really a very simple solution to a lot of our problems.  libs have zero common sense.  they would rather send our money to people who want to kill us.
burning diesel would let us keep the same car most of our lives and put a lot of machanics back to work.  I love the sound of an idling diesel.

edited to add.  I would love to buy a car knowing I could get 500,000 miles out of it.

[Dixie Dude]

Problem is the looney liberals think natural gas is "big oil" for one, or they say it is a fossil fuel.  It is, however, if we captured all the gas from dairy farms and feed stalls in America, we could supply all the residential natural gas use in America.  It would cost twice a much as fracking, but it is doable.  A pilot plant was built in Oklahoma at a cattle feed lot and delivered enough gas for 800 homes.  As long as we drink milk and eat beef, we can supplement our gas use if the prices increase enough.  The pipeline infrastructure is already in place except in very rural areas.  The reason I mentioned diesel is it is already out of the box 20-30% more fuel efficient than gasoline.  Ford makes a diesel Fiesta in Germany that gets 63 mpg but they don't sell it here.  However, in the next few years, you may see more diesel cars here to meet gas mileage standards, because hybrids cost more than diesels.  Germany has 85% of their vehicles running diesel and cut their oil imports in half the last 20 years.  Germany also has about 20% of their electricity produced by windmills off the north sea.  They want to double that. 
 
By using a combination of natural gas and diesel we could almost cut out imported oil.  Another long term solution is to make the diesel from coal oil.  We have an 800 year supply of coal, a 200 year supply of natural gas, not counting future alternatives of biogas and algae fuels. 
 
Electric vehicles take too long to recharge, and replacement batteries may cost a lot not counting the initial cost of one is higher than gasoline, CNG, or diesels.
 
Ethynol takes food away from us and our farm animals and causes food prices to increase with limited arable land.
 
Hydrogen fueled vehicles would be like the other internal combustion engines except it takes more energy to make hydrogen from water than you get out, and there is no infrastructure unless you convert the natural gas system to hydrogen. 
 
So that leaves natural gas and diesel as the only viable low cost alternatives to gasoline and imported oil.  The country can be converted fairly easily in 10 years to these two fuels.  CNG for fleets and diesel for everything else.  There is also biodiesel from waste cooking oil, but it only helps maybe 5% or so of the total needed. 
 
Flywheels to store energy for cars is an alternative to hybrid.  England is working on this since hybrids are expensive and take rare earth minerals to make the lithium batteries.  Flywheel hybrids show the promise of about 20% increase in fuel economy and they are made from steel, not rare lithium. 
 
A flywheel diesel Fiesta could probably get 75 mpg. 

[BUGEYE]

Dixie Dude, am I right that the flywheel idea is like the old john deere tractors?    we had one that was probably not more than 10 horsepower but once you got that big flywheel turning it would pull a 2 bottom plow.

[Sourdough]

Jakeemt:  And everyone else that thinks using our food supply as fuel is a good idea.  Dumbest thing I ever heard of, especially when we are sitting on billions of barrels of oil, and trillions of cf of natural gas.  Letting a group of stupid little environmental groups keep it off limits.  The government even pays them to file the law suites.  We have enough oil and gas with out fracking, to supply this country for decades.  Maybe longer.  All we have to do is drill for it.  Also most of it is onshore not out in the waters of our coast.

All because it might disturb a Caribou, that isn't even there when the drilling will be done. 

As for the Arkansas area.  Those folks better get ready, glad I don't live there.  Yea listen to me saying that, a guy that lives in one of the most Earthquake prone areas on the planet.  The New Madrid Fault slips on a regular basis.  It's overdue for a slip, and the area is not prepared for it.  How many homes in Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, and Illinois, are built to withstand an earthquake.  How many schools, churches, Malls, and other public buildings in the area are built earthquake resistant.  Not an area for fracking?  Don't think it would have anything to do with causing an Earthquake, but then again it could help start the slip.  Then again there is the idea fracking could help cause small slips that would help prevent one big slip.  The real question is WHO REALLY KNOWS?   

[Dixie Dude]

Yep, in Anwar alone, there is a 47 year supply of natural gas for the lower 48.  Just drill and build an 800 mile pipeline via the Alaskan Highway to the lower 48.  This is without fracking and drilling offshore. 
 
We need to drill more everywhere in the US.
 
Convert fleets to CNG, especially in the lower 48.
 
Convert as many vehicles to diesel as possible. 
 
All this combined within 10 years, no imported oil.  Money stays in America where it belongs. 
 
Then get rid of Obamacare and place tarriffs on imported items that we can make here.  Our industrial output has now been depleted to what it was in 1941 with 140 million people just before WWII began for us. 

[DDZ]

Jakeemt:  And everyone else that thinks using our food supply as fuel is a good idea.  Dumbest thing I ever heard of, especially when we are sitting on billions of barrels of oil, and trillions of cf of natural gas. 

I agree Sourdough, its one of the dumbest things I have ever heard of also. Downright stupid in fact!