Charlie Rangel asks..

[ironglow]

Charlie Rangel asks;
        ..What would Jesus do ?
 
  Well Charlie..to start with he would pay his TAXES..
 
  " 17  Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay ntaxes to oCaesar, or not?” 18 But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why pput me to the test, you hypocrites? 19 Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius.3 20 And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” 21 They said, “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them, q“Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God
                                                                                                      (Matt 22:17-21)
 
  Really funny isn't it guys..the liberals want in nthe worst way, to raise taxes on others..but they don't want to pay their own.    
 
   

[crustylicious]

Fact is you can't trust any politician. Even our next president, Michele Bachmann, the lovely Tea Party Bag Lady has been busted on her anti-socialist rhetoric.
First the farm subsidy issue
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1209/Antisocialist_Bachmann_got_250k_in_federal_farm_subsidies.html
Then her husbands clinic debaucle
http://www.theroot.com/buzz/michele-bachmann-husband-received-137000-medicaid-funds
What's a freedom loving patriot to do?

[Junior1942]

Fact is you can't trust any politician. Even our next president, Michele Bachmann, the lovely Tea Party Bag Lady has been busted on her anti-socialist rhetoric.
First the farm subsidy issue
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1209/Antisocialist_Bachmann_got_250k_in_federal_farm_subsidies.html
Then her husbands clinic debaucle
http://www.theroot.com/buzz/michele-bachmann-husband-received-137000-medicaid-funds
What's a freedom loving patriot to do?

Answer: vote Democrat and join the majority of freedom loving, patriotic Americans. 

[ironglow]

Fact is you can't trust any politician. Even our next president, Michele Bachmann, the lovely Tea Party Bag Lady has been busted on her anti-socialist rhetoric.
First the farm subsidy issue
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1209/Antisocialist_Bachmann_got_250k_in_federal_farm_subsidies.html
Then her husbands clinic debaucle
http://www.theroot.com/buzz/michele-bachmann-husband-received-137000-medicaid-funds
What's a freedom loving patriot to do?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
Uh Crusty;
  The govt program Bachmann's in-laws drew from was entirely legal...and was designed to keep a smooth production of foodstuffs.  It is an active, operating farm, not just land lying idle and collecting money..
       
               Medicaid to  a clinic;
     ... Perhaps you do not understand the Medicaid program.  Doctors have little choice as to whether they will accept Medicaid patients, they must treat them.  I would suppose that you already know, many if not most medicaid patients do not pay their medical bills.  The drug dealer who gets shot in a drive-by might be making $10K per day, but still doesn't pay his bill.  There is a provisioin for reimbursement from the govt (who established Medicaid).  Do you think the Doctor should just 'swallow' the loss, or do you instead think that the doctor should make up the difference by adding to honest patient's bills ?
 
   In any case, participating in a bonafide govt program doesn't equate to 13 counts of tax evasion..which Rangel was only chided for..
   Nor does it compare to John Kerry, berthing his new, very costly yacht just over the state line...to avoid paying his fair taxes..

[Junior1942]

Uh Crusty;
  The govt program Bachmann's in-laws drew from was entirely legal...

Uh, ironglow, a government check for not farming is exactly the same as a government check for not working. Welfare to a rich (R) is still welfare same as it is to a poor (D).

[nw_hunter]

Fact is you can't trust any politician. Even our next president, Michele Bachmann, the lovely Tea Party Bag Lady has been busted on her anti-socialist rhetoric.
First the farm subsidy issue
http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/1209/Antisocialist_Bachmann_got_250k_in_federal_farm_subsidies.html
Then her husbands clinic debaucle
http://www.theroot.com/buzz/michele-bachmann-husband-received-137000-medicaid-funds
What's a freedom loving patriot to do?

Answer: vote Democrat and join the majority of freedom loving, patriotic Americans.

Correct ans. ............Vote neither and return the country to it's former greatness!

[billy_56081]

Jr. if as you say these dems (the hippy turncoats who spit on soldiers) are such great patriots why do a large majority of our true patriots who risk their lives for our country vote against these vile parasites on America?

[Dee]

Well ironglow, I'm gonna have ta disagree on the "farm subsidy crap". You can actually learn a lot about farmers and the millions of dollars handout money on "EWG Farm Subsidy Data Base". Read where they draw hundreds of thousands of dollars themselves, and then sign their wives, kids, ect up also on the same land, and crops, and double down on their "FARM WELFARE".
It is one of the many programs "THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED", and should be abolished immediately.
As for Charlie Rangel? He should be in the pen for tax evasion instead of in charge of tax law making and monitoring.

[ironglow]

Well ironglow, I'm gonna have ta disagree on the "farm subsidy crap". You can actually learn a lot about farmers and the millions of dollars handout money on "EWG Farm Subsidy Data Base". Read where they draw hundreds of thousands of dollars themselves, and then sign their wives, kids, ect up also on the same land, and crops, and double down on their "FARM WELFARE".
It is one of the many programs "THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED", and should be abolished immediately.
As for Charlie Rangel? He should be in the pen for tax evasion instead of in charge of tax law making and monitoring.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   Dee;
   I don't disagree with you on the ending of farm subsidies, they should be discontinued. The people who are running a scam such as you outlined, should be jailed.  Not all however are running such scams; if you are familiar with today's farming you already know it is highly competitive.  Most farms are running with a very thin margin.. should say 100,000 fail at any givcen year it could upset our food/fiber balance.
  I am a free-market advocate, but we should keep in mind that if all props are removed, there may be times when for a few months..there may be no corn in the corn flakes, not eggs with the bacon ..possibly no bacon.  I live in a dairy/crop farming area, if milk suddenly dropped drastically in price some farms would fail and the cattle sold to meat..flooding the meat market and dropping meat prices..so ranchers may fail.  If such were to happen and enough farms/ranches failed, it would lead to severe shortage and very high commodity prices. I have a farmer operating in my neigborhood who runs about 6,000 acres of pure crop land..soybeans, corn, oats, barley, wheat etc..  He just erected a bin which probably cost in the area of $500K, to help supply the market.  Without assurance that crop prices will not have radical depressions, he likely would not have done this.  Multiply such refusal to invest by a thousand times and our national production could be affected.  Same applies to all farm investments.  His combines of which he has several, run about $500K each.
      Perhaps we should cancel such programs and let the "chips fall where they may".  I would not be so adversly affected by food shortages as those in metro areas, since I live in a food production area.. but I am neither selfish or blind, I can see some will suffer.  All said & done, I say punish the scam artists severely, but don't endanger our farm production.
   Crusty;
   I didn't pronounce Bachmann as the "next president"...you did..  However, Bachmann along with Ron Paul and a couple other potentials are about as unfettered by "party politics" as we are likely to see in this election.
     However, her resume dwarfs the resume of the dwarf now holding the office, who evidently has drawn govt subsidies all his life:
     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bachman 
 

[Dee]

ironglow, I will make this final comment and then let the topic alone, as I will have nothing to further add. How can one be for CAPITALISM in one area, and not another. Farming like all other BUSINESSES, "should be competitive". If a guy is not as good a farmer as his neighbor, then perhaps he needs to do something he's good at.
As for you "hypothesis" that IF A CERTAIN FARMER FAILS, it will drive up the markets elsewhere, then so be it until the "markets re-adjust" and everyone settles where they belong. When I was in the trucking industry as an "owner operator" it was PASS OR FAIL! No one subsidized me, and if you want to "hypothesize" about economic catastrophe, think about the trucking industry failing. Then, the farmer wouldn't have the seed, the tractors, the fuel, the planters, the harvest machinery, and on, and on.
In trucking you either make it, or you don't. The government doesn't subsidize you, they regulate and tax you. IF AN OWNER OPERATOR FAILS, OR A TRUCKING COMPANY FAILS, ANOTHER SIMPLY MOVES INTO THEIR PLACE, WITH BETTER BUSINESS PRACTICES. SO SHOULD IT BE IN FARMING, RANCHING, ECT.
This attitude of this one needs to be left alone and subsidized, while this one needs to be regulated, taxed is hogwash, and exactly why the country is in the shape it's in.
To claim to be for capitalism, and in favor of free marketing, without government interference, and yet SUPPORT SUCH THINGS AS FARM SUBSIDY, is hypocrisy, and disingenuous in claiming conservatism.
It is socialism for profit. YOUR FARMER FRIEND IS LIVING BEYOND HIS MEANS, AND YOU ARE SHARING HIS COOLAIDE TO SUPPORT SUCH A THING. HE (THE FARMER) IS NO BETTER THAN THE REST OF US, AND NO MORE DESERVES FREE GOVERNMENT MONEY, (i.e. TAX DOLLARS), THAN YOU OR I. IT'S GOVERNMENT WELFARE "JUSTIFIED", BY SCARING THE CONSUMER (YOU!) JUST LIKE GM, AND CHRYSLER, AND FANNY MAE, AND FREDDY MAC, AND ON AND ON. YOU ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO PUT A "DIFFERENT FACE ON THE SAME CLOWN".
YOU DISLIKE CHARLIE RANGEL, BUT "AGREE WITH FARM SUBSIDIES". POOR OLE CHARLIE SHOULDN'T  HAVE TO PAY HIS TAXES, AND THE FARMER SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON FUEL. OH! I FORGOT! FARMERS "DON'T PAY TAXES ON FUEL" DO THEY.

[dukkillr]

ironglow, I will make this final comment and then let the topic alone, as I will have nothing to further add. How can one be for CAPITALISM in one area, and not another. Farming like all other BUSINESSES, "should be competitive". If a guy is not as good a farmer as his neighbor, then perhaps he needs to do something he's good at.
As for you "hypothesis" that IF A CERTAIN FARMER FAILS, it will drive up the markets elsewhere, then so be it until the "markets re-adjust" and everyone settles where they belong. When I was in the trucking industry as an "owner operator" it was PASS OR FAIL! No one subsidized me, and if you want to "hypothesize" about economic catastrophe, think about the trucking industry failing. Then, the farmer wouldn't have the seed, the tractors, the fuel, the planters, the harvest machinery, and on, and on.
In trucking you either make it, or you don't. The government doesn't subsidize you, they regulate and tax you. IF AN OWNER OPERATOR FAILS, OR A TRUCKING COMPANY FAILS, ANOTHER SIMPLY MOVES INTO THEIR PLACE, WITH BETTER BUSINESS PRACTICES. SO SHOULD IT BE IN FARMING, RANCHING, ECT.
This attitude of this one needs to be left alone and subsidized, while this one needs to be regulated, taxed is hogwash, and exactly why the country is in the shape it's in.
To claim to be for capitalism, and in favor of free marketing, without government interference, and yet SUPPORT SUCH THINGS AS FARM SUBSIDY, is hypocrisy, and disingenuous in claiming conservatism.
It is socialism for profit. YOUR FARMER FRIEND IS LIVING BEYOND HIS MEANS, AND YOU ARE SHARING HIS COOLAIDE TO SUPPORT SUCH A THING. HE (THE FARMER) IS NO BETTER THAN THE REST OF US, AND NO MORE DESERVES FREE GOVERNMENT MONEY, (i.e. TAX DOLLARS), THAN YOU OR I. IT'S GOVERNMENT WELFARE "JUSTIFIED", BY SCARING THE CONSUMER (YOU!) JUST LIKE GM, AND CHRYSLER, AND FANNY MAE, AND FREDDY MAC, AND ON AND ON. YOU ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO PUT A "DIFFERENT FACE ON THE SAME CLOWN".
YOU DISLIKE CHARLIE RANGEL, BUT "AGREE WITH FARM SUBSIDIES". POOR OLE CHARLIE SHOULDN'T  HAVE TO PAY HIS TAXES, AND THE FARMER SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY TAXES ON FUEL. OH! I FORGOT! FARMERS "DON'T PAY TAXES ON FUEL" DO THEY.

It is a sign of political, rather than logical allegiance, when a "free market conservative" also supports farm subsidies.  You said it well.

[ironglow]

Dee and Duk;
    Perhaps you skimmed over this sentence;
       "  Perhaps we should cancel such programs and let the 'chips fall where they may'.  I would not be so adversly affected by food shortages as those in metro areas, since I live in a food production area. "
  So as I said earlier, I'm a free-market guy..cut the programs today and let the chips fall...but I would also like to see the scammers on corporate subsidies AND welfare scammers punished...but what's the chance of either ?
    What I was trying to make clear is that a productive meat or milk producing herd is not built up overnight, neither is 6,000 acres put under cultivation overnight.  It takes time for cattle and crops to grow..but from a purely selfish perspective, it's no "skin off my nose". " A Country Boy Can Survive"...
 
  BTW: That local crop farmer (my cousin) doesn't use subsidies, thusfar he has out guessed the "experts" on futures and the markets.  Perhaps Cornell U. has something on the ball, after all...

[lakota]

This is disturbing behavior...a man is in favor of higher taxes...on others but apparently he thinks that he should be exempt.
 
Politicians become more and more like a royal class with each passing day. They pass laws and rules for others to follow but they believe themselves to be above the rules they are making.
 

What's a freedom loving patriot to do?
Answer: vote Democrat and join the majority of freedom loving, patriotic Americans. 

Now thats funny! The train is going to hell either way...put democrats at the helm if you want to get there a little bit faster!

[ironglow]

  He was chairman of the "Ways & Means" committee..the comittee which wrote the tax laws..

[BUGEYE]

This is disturbing behavior...a man is in favor of higher taxes...on others but apparently he thinks that he should be exempt.
 
Politicians become more and more like a royal class with each passing day. They pass laws and rules for others to follow but they believe themselves to be above the rules they are making.
 

What's a freedom loving patriot to do?
Answer: vote Democrat and join the majority of freedom loving, patriotic Americans. 

Now thats funny! The train is going to hell either way...put democrats at the helm if you want to get there a little bit faster!

junior must be dislexic, he has everything backwards.

[ironglow]

Yeah Bugeye;
  Do you suppose junior has ever polled the patriotic soldiers, Marines and spec ops troops who are "putting it all on the line" to see whether they are Lib or Conservative ?
 
   Here's a new veteran, top flight fighter, now a congressman with thousands wanting him for prez...he doesn't agree with the Lefty drivel:
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGQmCZjJ0k
  West is a man's man..no mealy mouthed, spin and dodge..he refreshingly "tells it like it is"..  No wonder his troops have such great respect for him !  He's the real deal..born in America, to an American mother and father, served his country courageously for 22 years and knows more about international problems and foreign policy than any "community organizer" ever could.  I for one, am a Col West fan...
  He apparently never climbed aboard the plantation train. Here he is in a Florida congressional campaign appearance;
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4g8lxEPLQE&NR=1&feature=fvwp
   

[Dee]

You guys need to check Mr. West a little closer. He has some very liberal views on certain topics. Just because he's a vet, and says a few things you like, doesn't mean he's presidential material.
This is once again, a matter of skimming over the top, rather than digging into the man's views on other topics.

[nomosendero]

You guys need to check Mr. West a little closer. He has some very liberal views on certain topics. Just because he's a vet, and says a few things you like, doesn't mean he's presidential material.
This is once again, a matter of skimming over the top, rather than digging into the man's views on other topics.

As we found out with Herman Cain

[magooch]

Yeah, and don't forget that only Ron Paul is perfect.

[BUGEYE]

Yeah, and don't forget that only Ron Paul is perfect.

snicker, I like ron paul, but only I am fully qualified to be prez.   I could balance the budget in 30 minutes.
I doubt if we can find a candidate that is unblemished,  but the liberals look like lepers compared to conservatives.

[nomosendero]

Yeah, and don't forget that only Ron Paul is perfect.

Is that your opinion, it sure isn't mine, nor has it ever been expressed as such.
 

[BUGEYE]

Yeah, and don't forget that only Ron Paul is perfect.

Is that your opinion, it sure isn't mine, nor has it ever been expressed as such.

I think he was being sarcastic.

[nomosendero]

Yeah, and don't forget that only Ron Paul is perfect.

Is that your opinion, it sure isn't mine, nor has it ever been expressed as such.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Yeah, I know but thanks