Reloading for Savage 99E in .243

[Reserve]

I have recently acquired a Savage model 99E chambered in .243 and want to hand load some rounds for deer season this year.

I have tried to work up a load using 85 gr. Sierra BTHP bullets and IMR 4350 and 3031 powders but with less than spectacular results. I am using Lee dies with the factory  crimp die, my powder charges started at 1 grain below maximum and worked up progressively from there. The best group I have got so far is just over 2" at 100 yards. It is a little disheartening because with Federal blue box 100 gr. factory ammo it will shoot sub 1" groups at the same distance.

My questions are these: Since it is shooting the heavier bullets better than the lighter, do you think the twist rate may be such that the heavier bullets are the way to go for accuracy? My reloading experiences thus far have been limited to long action calibers and IMR 4350 has always been my go to powder with the 3031 used mainly for experimentation, is there another powder that I should be looking at? Does anyone know the twist rate of the barrel on this particular rifle? My google-fu is not as good as it should be.

One more thing, all of the rounds I have loaded I have gone to great pain in order to make sure they are all identical. Length of the cases identical, each charge hand weighed, OAL is identical and a light crimp to finish it off. I am going to load 3 more with no crimp to see if that had any bearing on anything, this is my first time using a set with a crimp die.

This is frustrating, every other rifle I've ever loaded for was easy to get a great recipe. All help is greatly appreciated.

[spinafish]

I used the 85H.P's also, but I load mine over Varget.My rifle is a late 70's vintage Model 111 Savage.  I can usually group 3 inside an inch at one hundred.  I used to load for my buddies Model 99, but his was in .300 Savage..We were happy to get a 2" group from any load with his rifle!The one deer I shot with that bullet was at about 120 yds and didn't even twitch when hit..just pancaked!
 

[huntswithdogs]

I was loading some shells for my youngun's 99 in 308 and found that none of the loads prefered by my bolt gun worked worth a dang. 1.5'' groups was about all we could wring out of it but that proved to be right well for the buck he killed with it.

When we started messing with it, it wouldn't shoot worth a poot. I got a-holt of some good bore cleaner and spent close to a week on it soaking, brushing, and swabbing. I don't think his granddaddy had ever cleaned the bore of this rifle.

I can't remember what powder I use for my 85s but I don't think it's either of the 2 you listed. Most of my 243 shooting is done with 100gr bullets in front a good sized load of H4813 or H414.

About the only thing I put any crimp on are my pistol bullets. I'm certain we didn't crimp the 308s for his rifle either. You may give it a try to see...it can't hurt.

HWD

[fastchicken]

H4350 and H4895 have both worked well for me with the 85gr SGK and H4350 and H4831 with the 100gr

[Reserve]

Thanks for the responses guys. I got it figured out I think. The OAL I was using was too short it seems. I got a bullet started in an unprimed case, then I chambered it seating the bullet on the lands. After measuring the length that gave me I seated the bullet .020" farther in and locked my seating die right there. After that my groups were just over 1" at 100 yards.

Now after all of that I have decided to use a different bullet. There was just a little nagging doubt in my mind that these bullets may not perform exactly as I want them to. Oh well, just means I get to shoot more.

[oneoldsap]

           Starting at 1 Grain under Max. in a leveraction is pretty ballsy , if not foolhardy ! I don't know how long you have been reloading , I'm guessing not too long since you only have 2 Powders ! When working up a load , especially for a lever Gun , start with the starting load listed in the Manual you are using ! It is the safe way to reload ! I have been rolling my own since 1967 and have never damaged a Gun or a person . I have seen a 99 in 243 blow up , and hurt the shooter real bad . Not trying to preach , just want you to be safe !
                                                                                                        Mike

[spinafish]

don't underestimate those 85 HP's  I always thought of  a HP as a varmit bullet..but these have proven me wrong! 

[Reserve]

           Starting at 1 Grain under Max. in a leveraction is pretty ballsy , if not foolhardy ! I don't know how long you have been reloading , I'm guessing not too long since you only have 2 Powders ! When working up a load , especially for a lever Gun , start with the starting load listed in the Manual you are using ! It is the safe way to reload ! I have been rolling my own since 1967 and have never damaged a Gun or a person . I have seen a 99 in 243 blow up , and hurt the shooter real bad . Not trying to preach , just want you to be safe !
                                                                                                        Mike

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that the 99 was capable of handling the cartridges it was designed for. Also I was under the impression that the max loads given in the various loading publications were well within the ability of a well designed firearm to handle, hence the max load designation. The majority of loads I have worked up have performed best at near maximum velocity, so there has been no need to start at the bottom of the scale.

I have been reloading since 1988 myself, and have also never damaged a firearm or a person. For you to equate the number of powders I use with the amount of intelligence I have is downright insulting! Do you think you could have been any more of a jerk if you tried? "Beware the man who owns only one gun for he knows how to use it", ever hear that? Why should I buy a multitude of powders when I have two that do all I need them to? Are you one of "those" people who thinks you can't reload squat unless you have a pound of every powder made?

I do appreciate your concern for my safety (I really do) but you could do it in a much less condescending manner. I have seen rifles explode before myself, a Mauser to be specific, and take great pains to have it not happen to me.  The reason max loads are listed is so that the maximum CUP's are not exceeded on a particular cartridge.

I really wasn't looking for destructive criticism.

[243dave]

Reserve, I think Oneoldsap was trying to point out was that you started loading under the minimum load.  With many rifle powders(and some pistol too) loading under the minimum causes erratic pressures and can possibly damage you or your firearm but being only 1 grain under you are probably fine but myself I start with the min load for this reason.  As for the 85gr sierras, I've got some years ago but could never get them to shoot as good as I wanted out of the two 243's I own but I've read lots of praises about them.  I settled on 70 gr sierra match bullets for targets and small game and 100gr speer grandslams for deer, its a great penetrating bullet that expands nicely.  Your right about one thing though, Oneoldsap could have been a bit nicer about it.     Oh yeah, welcome to the forum( just noticed your post count).  Don't let one rude response run you off I'm interested in what bullet you decided to go with.
Dave

[Reserve]

Thanks Dave, I've been on here for @ five years. A new computer and forgetting all of my info led to the new account.

I do believe that he read it right, I usually start 1 grain below max load. Being a part of several forums I've learned that sometimes you'll run into another member you just don't see eye to eye with.

I did pick up some 100 gr Sierra pro-hunters yesterday, as a matter of fact I'm on my way out the door to try out three I cooked up last night. I'll tell you more about it shortly.

[parkergunshop]

Folks,
 
I have a letter from P. O. Ackley that states that the 99 Savage is one of the safest action types to be behind as far as being safe from an overload were gas is released into the rear of the action.  Safer than any bolt action from his viewpoint.
 
The 99 design is excellent, likely the best of the lever actions, but with an extreme overload any action type can be unsafe.   I have reloaded for close to 50 years and have yet to blow a primer, and I have used dozens of different powders.  IMR, Hogdon, Norma, Hercules, Vihtavuori, Winchester.
 
The point has been well made to start with the minimum load in a good loading manual and work up a grain at a time to be safe, powder like everything else varies a little from batch to batch, though hopefully not enough to damage an action with maximum loads, the worse thing that generally happens is a loose blown  primer. 
 
I try to load as close as possible to a full case load of powder by selecting the powder type that works well with full denisity loads,  In some chamberings this means H380 works, other require H450 or IMR4350,  if you can't get an accurate load with one of these three powders in most chamberings than something is wrong with the firearm.   I also use the Norma Powders, especially N203 and N204.
 
If someone was hurt with a Savage 99 action load, it was not the fault of the Action or it's design, it was a grossly excessive overload that would have destroyed most any action type.   And I have seen Model 70 Winchesters and 700 Remingtons and 788 Remingtons blown up.  In the case of the 788 Remington the load was so excessive that it stripped the bolt lugs off of the bolt and sent it back into the shooters face.  This was in the 1980's just before the 788 was discontinued by Remington.
 
The Savage 99 is a rear locking action and should give high pressure signs earlier than a front locking action due to the compression of the locking breech block and or stretching of the receiver.   You should see high pressure signs early enough to avoid any major event is the point with the 99 action, if you go up a grain at a time with the proper powder being used.
 
 

[oneoldsap]

   Reserve , I'm sorry I'm not a better wordsmith ! I was not questioning your intellegence , I was concerned about your experience level . Since you only have 2 Powders , and starting your loads near Max is indicative of someone with limited experience ! The 99 will handle the rounds for which Savage chambered it . With that being said , my friend Gary is now blind in his left eye and has no hearing in his left Ear and a scarred up face because his 99 .243 came unglued with a Federal factory load !  The Savage action is nowhere near as strong as a bolt action or any other rotary bolt design ! You are certainly free to do as you please and I really do hope all goes well for you !                    Mike

[mjbgalt]

try varget and H4350