Author Topic: Is high velocity .22 RF the best choice for semi-automatics? (Read 3931 times)

His lordship. · « **on:** July 14, 2011, 01:27:46 PM »

Was shooting my Ruger 10/22 factory target model yesterday, had more jamming issues. Most of the time the gun will fire ok, but then get 1-2 stove pipes per 10 round mag. Bought the gun new in 2008, mostly used CCI medium loads then, have been using my preferred 40 gr. lead target loads made by Armscor, Eley, and Aguilla these days.

Was getting jams during the Winter months, I cut down on the grease used in the action, thought the cold was making things sticky but it was 101 degrees yesterday. I always clean out the action when I get home with oil. Have not torn the gun down totally as of yet, waiting to get a better trigger setup to lighten the pull. I have used high velocity metal plated ammo in .36 grains, works really well in the reliability dept with those. The accuracy is not as good as the medium lead tipped target ammo, and am worried about higher barrel wear.

I have owned a Marlin 60, a Remington 597, and a Ruger cheapie model 10/22. Jamming was an issue with all those, the Remington only acted up in cold weather. Have read of certain types of semi-auto .22's like the Smith and Wesson 15/22 the SIG mosquito pistol, and the CMMG conversion kit for the AR-15 working best with certain types of high velocity ammo only.

My Ruger Mk. 2 and two of my Ruger Mk. 3 pistols work great with the lower velocity lead tipped ammo.

Am I to stick with the high velocity .22 copper plated, .36 Gr. ammo when using all semi-automatic rifles in .22 RF if I want it to work reliably? Personaly I would prefer all my rimfire rifles were bolt action, but I already have a CZ 452. Is there an aftermarket device to add to a 10/22 that would allow it to be more effective?

Thanks.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2011, 02:07:06 PM »

federal automatch 40gr lead. 1200 fps. never a hiccup since I started using them.

flintlock · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:34:00 PM »

I guess it depends on the rifle...My Remington 552 groups .22 shorts or Green tags the best, higher velocity rounds open the groups...

Of course my 552 was made in 1971, guess they made them better back then as well, no jamming issues with any...

Bigeasy · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2011, 03:47:53 PM »

Chris

I have found that some .22 semi's can be just plain finicky with what they will shoot reliably. A lot of guns often function best with high velocity ammo. If a particular gun is more reliable in hot weather then cold, it sounds to me like an over lubrication problem, or using a lube that thickens to much in the cold. That Ruger may be more sensitive to its ammo then most because of the target spec. (tight) chamber. I would not worry about barrel wear with plated bullets, as it is only a thin copper wash over soft lead. I have never heard of anyone wearing out a .22 rimfire barrel, unless it was from neglect, or from using old corrosive ammo without proper cleaning.

When it comes to .22 semi's, I usually try a variety of bulk ammo brands and types, until I find one that is the most accurate and reliable in that gun. Some semi's never are 100% reliable. I have a Kimber .22 conversion kit for the 1911 that is one of the most accurate handguns I have ever owned, but no matter what frame I use, and what load I shoot, it has never been what I would call reliable...

Larry

His lordship. · « **Reply #4 on:** July 15, 2011, 10:55:28 AM »

Thanks for the replies, I will look into getting a sampler of high velocity ammo and try again. I was getting frustrated as I thought, what if I had been hunting and had to stop to clear stove pipe jams so often. I like the gun and want to keep it, but was recalling how all my other semi-autos .22's ended up as trade ins. Should have kept the Remington a little longer, had to move across the country, so anything not up to par had to go. I had the Marlin for 14 years, at least I gave it a chance.

Bigeasy...I have read that the conversion kits for the 1911 sometimes need tweeking of the hammer spring, or something like that. It makes sense as the hammer now has to detonate a very different sort of cartridge. One of my shooting club people had a CZ-75 .22 RF conversion for his gun, he had to send it back to the warranty station in Kansas City twice, and he still had problems. This kept me from getting a conversion kit for my CZ, but I did keep the option open for my RIA 1911 when I had it.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #5 on:** July 15, 2011, 11:10:17 AM »

Have your mags been cleaned? Too many times an auto chokes from mag issues.

markc · « **Reply #6 on:** July 16, 2011, 12:19:12 PM »

Have you tried new magazines? Could you explain "grease" you are using in the action? Why grease? Sounds like a likely suspect to me. You said you clean out the action with oil, but have not broken the gun down. Are you not cleaning things out with a solvent? I may be missing something, but it sounds like the gun needs a good cleaning, and or a new magazine if you can not fire 10 rounds without at least 1 jam. I am firing 2, 25 rd mags + a 10 rd mag from my S&W MP 15-22 using Remington golden bullets with no jams at all. The gun is broken down and cleaned, adding only a light few drops of quality oil after cleaning and drying after each use.

mechanic · « **Reply #7 on:** July 16, 2011, 12:36:00 PM »

I have, and have had this problem with Remington bulk, but never with Winchester. Most of the Rem. gives me about 1 in 10 misfires even in my bolt. Of course I may have just gotten a bad batch....

Ben

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** July 16, 2011, 12:36:25 PM »

I think you give up a little accuracy with the speed. Maybe it is the smaller projectiles and standard 22 Rifleing.
I also have found that the faster ligher bullets really mess up small game. The standard velocity ammo with plating seems to work well and feed well especally the round nose bullets.
I have found that the trunkated bullets do not feed well out of all types of mags out of an auto.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #9 on:** July 16, 2011, 01:52:12 PM »

Sounds more like a cleaning issue. By design most semi 22rf kick a little unburnt powder back into the receiver. Having grease there may also be trouble since it can be more tacky than lubricious depending on viscosity. Powder in grease can be more like sand. I would tear it down and take a degreaser and toothbrush to the inside of the receiver and get all the grease off the bolt as well. Also would make sure the chamber is bright and shiny. Unless they've changed, the T model didn't have a bentz chamber so the only way it would make a difference is if it is dirty, as long as it functioned properly when new. I use a silicone spray based dry lube on semi autos due to the powder fouling. A 10-22 with go 10-12 bricks before it needs to be torn down again. On my 10-22s I polish everything on the inside then lube with the dry lube so I don't have to tear them down as often.

With the AR conversion you are supposed to trim the spring to suit your ammo. Full length more poundage for hotter rimfire. And trimmed length reduced poundage for subsonic. I have a spikes tactical which is identical to CMMG besides it is stainless steel and no reliability issues at all with subsonics. Also use only subsonic rounds in every semi 22 I own because they are more accurate than hi-vel. No functioning issues.

A video on how to tear down the 10-22. When you do your trigger and if you need to clean the rotary mag there are also youtube videos to show you how.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eobAjygRpIo&feature=related

RaySendero · « **Reply #10 on:** July 17, 2011, 02:47:08 PM »

Chris, Here's a couple of things I can think of that may help or at least help eliminate some culpits in your troubleshooting. IME - The action spring in a 10/22 is one of the most critical parts related to jams:

1) Take the bolt out. Then take the action spring out. Clean the action spring with a gunscrubber or break free product to get all the lube off it. Then compress the spring and apply a good gun grease to the stem. Work this grease into the bolt hole and the spring ferret by moving it repeatedly compressing the spring back and forth. Greasing this part may fix the problem or at least eliminate it as the cause of the jams.

2) My 10/22 would shoot high velocity ammo real good but would smoke-stack some of the subsonic target loads. I bought a second action spring and cut the spring down 2 rings - Aftewards it shot the subsonic ammo well. I just switch these now depending on the ammo I'm wanting to shoot.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2011, 07:12:40 AM »

I was just looking at some of the new CCI AR rifle ammo.
It is a jacket bullet (like 22 Mag) so it will not leave leading at the gas port on an AR.
But it is at standard velocity.
I think if the hyper stuff was more reliable in an auto they would have gone with the smaller bullets and increased the speed.

Flynmoose · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2011, 08:28:47 AM »

I have always done pretty well with Mini Mags. I still have a bunch of Remington golden bulk. I let the kids shoot that up in the pumps and bolt actions, saving my stash of Minis.
FM

dks7895 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 18, 2011, 11:02:58 AM »

You're getting good advise. To recap...

1. tear it down and clean all the grease out with Gun Scrubber (brake cleaner)
2. spray with Break Free CLP and wipe off the excess
3. try different ammo. I have good luck with Winchester 333/555 bulk packs

Good Luck

nw_hunter · « **Reply #14 on:** August 15, 2011, 05:46:26 PM »

Quote from: dks7895 on July 18, 2011, 11:02:58 AM

You're getting good advise. To recap...

1. tear it down and clean all the grease out with Gun Scrubber (brake cleaner)
2. spray with Break Free CLP and wipe off the excess
3. try different ammo. I have good luck with Winchester 333/555 bulk packs

Good Luck
[/quote

Good advice and like Bugeye said........Get some Federal Auto-Mach. I haven't seen a gun that wouldn't cycle with them and they are pretty accurate too. Wally World at most locations carry them in bricks of 325 I think.The worst I found was the Remington bulk ammo. I won't buy any more. I like Winchester Super X also.

jpshaw · « **Reply #15 on:** April 04, 2012, 01:58:16 AM »

My hunting round for my 10/22 is now Remington Hollowpoint "subsonic" or low noise LR. Picked purely on accuracy. I'm not trying to have a no noise rifle it's just the round that grouped the best in my Ruger and I've been hunting with it for years. I use no grease in my autoloaders, just a light coat of oil on and then whipped off.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2012, 06:36:07 AM »

Rimfire autoloaders are some of the dirtiest rifles around. To help the problem neveer use any liquid or greasy lube,,instead use graphite or moly in a solvvent base. The solvent will evaporate and leave the powdered lube to do its job. I really prefer the Remington SubSonic HP's but in rifles that wouldn't function them well use a Winchester HP load with a dimple point called DynaPoint. The HP's are just too destructive on edibles.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #17 on:** April 23, 2012, 01:28:23 PM »

Quote from: gunnut69 on April 05, 2012, 06:36:07 AM

Rimfire autoloaders are some of the dirtiest rifles around. To help the problem neveer use any liquid or greasy lube,,instead use graphite or moly in a solvvent base. The solvent will evaporate and leave the powdered lube to do its job. I really prefer the Remington SubSonic HP's but in rifles that wouldn't function them well use a Winchester HP load with a dimple point called DynaPoint. The HP's are just too destructive on edibles.

I just tear apart my rifles and clean them and then grease, oil, or wax them back up.
Run a few hundred rounds through the 10/22's and repeat.

two-blocked · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2012, 07:41:18 AM »

Try Remington Drilube-. It has worked for me in the hot and cold. Just a little shot is all you need.
I second the Federal Automatch!

popplecop · « **Reply #19 on:** May 19, 2012, 10:34:46 AM »

Cleaned a 10/22 the other day that had been lubed numerous times with the old formula of WD40. Complaint was broken firing pin, firing pin was fine but the bolt and trigger group were so gummed up it wouldn't function. Cleaned it up througly, lightly oiled it and functioned flawlessly. Was surprized how clean the gun was otherwise, ussually when we get a non functioning .22 you have to remove the carbon build up with dental picks.

mauser98us · « **Reply #20 on:** May 19, 2012, 04:26:38 PM »

I use standard velocity ammo in all my semi-auto. A little more expensive,but find it works well

Bugflipper · « **Reply #21 on:** May 19, 2012, 06:17:45 PM »

Quote from: popplecop on May 19, 2012, 10:34:46 AM

Cleaned a 10/22 the other day that had been lubed numerous times with the old formula of WD40. Complaint was broken firing pin, firing pin was fine but the bolt and trigger group were so gummed up it wouldn't function. Cleaned it up througly, lightly oiled it and functioned flawlessly. Was surprized how clean the gun was otherwise, ussually when we get a non functioning .22 you have to remove the carbon build up with dental picks.

What was the difference of old wd-40 and new? My grandpa would squirt the junk down the barrel and let it ooze into the receiver barrel up. Needless to say when I inherited his guns there was quite a bit of work to get them back in service. Assuming the old formula gunked up? Because all of those guns had almost a tar build up in them from the powder/dirt/rust/wd-40 concoction of 50 years. Note they never had a brush down them or disassembled. When they quit working more wd-40 was sprayed down the barrel and flushed the receiver. Sometimes several doses until the black quit running out. That was his method of cleaning.

Rex in OTZ · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2012, 05:46:20 PM »

My HighStandard target pistol shoots std velocity the best, if I use High velocity or Hyper Velocity Im just asking for jambs, also some rifles turn in so so accuracy shooting high velocity ammo, it gets worse with Hyper velocity ammo, then switch to std velocity and the groups tighten up, semi autos have allot going on, action springs that are gummy, tired, snipped, or too strong can and do lead to jamb issues, the H.S. Citation was one, it seemed the mag spring was weak, the slide too slow , hv .22's would cycle the action so fast it could fire a round and eject it and never pick up a round from the mag or it'd jamb.
the correct ammo helps greatly and a firm grip.

then of course Lever's, Pump's and bolt action .22's dont sweat cycleing issues no matter what velocity are in the magazines the temprature or who is shooting