7mm mag.

[Ethan]

I have the chance to buy a Remington 700 for like 300 bucks in 7mm mag. but I only want the action.  I want to take the action and make a 280 ackley improved. So can one of you guys here tell me it a 7 mag. is long or magnum action

[parkergunshop]

Ethan,
 
The 7 Mag is a long action with a H&H size bolt face (Magnum bolt face) , this bolt will not work with the .280 Ackley Improved, the bolt face opening is too large and the extractor will not work.
 
You need a 30-06, 270 Win, .280 Rem, etc chambering to convert to a .280 Ackley Improved based on the original .280 Remington case.  A .280 Remington can be rechambered to .280 Ackley improved, the others would have to be rebarreled.

[Ethan]

Ethan,
 
The 7 Mag is a long action with a H&H size bolt face (Magnum bolt face) , this bolt will not work with the .280 Ackley Improved, the bolt face opening is too large and the extractor will not work.
 
You need a 30-06, 270 Win, .280 Rem, etc chambering to convert to a .280 Ackley Improved based on the original .280 Remington case.  A .280 Remington can be rechambered to .280 Ackley improved, the others would have to be rebarreled.

Can a Gunsmith change the Bolt face to make it work?

[nomosendero]

Ethan,
 
The 7 Mag is a long action with a H&H size bolt face (Magnum bolt face) , this bolt will not work with the .280 Ackley Improved, the bolt face opening is too large and the extractor will not work.
 
You need a 30-06, 270 Win, .280 Rem, etc chambering to convert to a .280 Ackley Improved based on the original .280 Remington case.  A .280 Remington can be rechambered to .280 Ackley improved, the others would have to be rebarreled.

Can a Gunsmith change the Bolt face to make it work?

No, the 7RM/Mag bolt face is larger. If it were the other way around & you wanted to open up a std/'06 bolt face you could.
 
Please don't be offended by my following comments. Your questions are very "entry level" & there is no problem with that, we all started somewhere. But, (I load 4 diff. AI rounds) loading & working with wildcats, even the simple AI rounds is not the best way to go for entry level shooters. If you want a 7mm with 280AI performance, just buy the 7RM. When both are loaded to equal pressure, the 7RM will be a little faster. Plus you have a lot of great factory loads.You could also go with the std. 280 & worry about AI when you get more experience.
But if this is a nice Rem, I would buy it & enjoy, the 7RM is a very nice round.

[Ethan]

No offense taken. I am thinking about just getting the 7 mag. and going with it.

[nomosendero]

Great choice, let us know how it performs.

[mcwoodduck]

The 280 Improved is ballisticlly the same as 7mm Mag for the most part.  You blow out the shoulder to get more room for power to go as fast as the belted mag. 
I think you are going to spend a lot of money to make a 280 improved out of your 7mm mag to do the same thing.
If it were me I would snatch up the rifle in a heart beat and what ever you were looking to spend on either a new barrel or setting back and rechambering the current one as well as either replacing or closing the bolt face on other things like upgrading the optics, a new sling, new stock, and a soft case.
If you really want to have a round with out a belt you can have the rifle rechambered to 7mm Dakota.  It is a 404 Jefferies round cut back to 30-06 length and necked to 7mm.  You will have to open the bolt face from .530 to .544 and will gain 150 to 250 FPS over 7mm Mag. But 7mm Mag is more than enough for most North American hunting.

[Lloyd Smale]

Like was said your going from a great round to a slightly less powerful round that will probably be worth less if you ever resell it. Its a round that guys with 280s rechamber to because they want a 7mag.

[roper]

I have the chance to buy a Remington 700 for like 300 bucks in 7mm mag. but I only want the action.  I want to take the action and make a 280 ackley improved. So can one of you guys here tell me it a 7 mag. is long or magnum action

 
There is couple things you have to change.  First you have to change out the magazine follower next the mag bolt face can be bushed and sako extractor installed that cost run maybe $200.  You can get on some site guys have extra bolts for sale or do a trade cut the cost down to almost nothing.
 
You could buy a bolt from Pacific sell your old one to offset the cost be a nice custom touch that add value to the action.  What you need to do is find a good gunsmith.
 
I used a 700 action for my 280AI I had the right bolt face but I did add a Sako extractor and the action had been squared.
 
I like the 7mag still have my first custom build toward the end of the 60's in 7mag.    My wife shoot a Forbes UL rifle in 280AI has a Kreiger barrel it gets 3000fps plus with 150gr TSX so I had alittle experience with the 280AI but I want to shoot alittle heavier bullets 160/168gr maybe try some 180gr
 
I never build my 280AI to equal another caliber if I wanted a 7mag etc I build that.  Comparing just makes good hype for the internet experts.  If you look at Nolser data for the 280AI 3000fps plus with 160gr bullet is easy to get if you add barrel length you can get alittle more.

[Brithunter]

Like was said your going from a great round to a slightly less powerful round that will probably be worth less if you ever resell it. Its a round that guys with 280s rechamber to because they want a 7mag.

Sorry ole chap but I built a .280 AI on a .270 because I wanted a modern version of the .280 Ross not because I wanted a 7mm RM. Not everyone is enamoured with belted cases. If I could have found a decent .280 Ross that i could have afforded then i would have done that but after looking for a long time and having a .270 Win with a worn barrel I brought a factory chambered 7x64 and modified then re-chambered it to .280AI and here is the first fore formed case:-








I used a BSA 1st pattern Monarch for the action and the barrel was a new in the white BSA CF2 barrel with the tenon altered to fit the Monarch action.

[parkergunshop]

Nice BSA action, I had one barrelled in .222 Remington, the only weak point with the BSA is the trigger, otherwise a great and nice looking action.
 
Advantages of the 7 Mag belted case over the .280 Remington case:
 
1. Headspace is more sure using the belt.
2. Gas protection and chamber sealing is better due to the belt.
3. Use of stock factory ammo.
 
Advantages of the .280 Remington case over the 7 Mag case:
 
1. Feeding is easier and more positive.
2. Does not require a magnum bolt action or conversion to one.
3. Slightly cheaper brass and more wide spread availibility.
 

[rickt300]

I have both a 280 AI and  7MM Remington magnum. Both have 24 inch barrels and both are fine rifles. For the big 7 getting brass is a breeze, I pick up a lot of it at the gun range during hunting season. Very different story for the 280. The 280 case is just not that common. I can easily load the big 7 down to what the AI can do but loading the AI to anywhere near what the big 7 can do makes for short brass life. I generally shoot 160 gr. Nosler Partitions in the big 7 and 140's in the 280 AI. Both are fine killers, are equally accurate and weigh about the same. The AI is a custom rifle on a 1903 action and the big 7 is a 1972 Remington 700. If I had to pick on the basis of reason I would keep the big 7, otherwise I would keep the AI.

[nomosendero]

I have the chance to buy a Remington 700 for like 300 bucks in 7mm mag. but I only want the action.  I want to take the action and make a 280 ackley improved. So can one of you guys here tell me it a 7 mag. is long or magnum action

 
There is couple things you have to change.  First you have to change out the magazine follower next the mag bolt face can be bushed and sako extractor installed that cost run maybe $200.  You can get on some site guys have extra bolts for sale or do a trade cut the cost down to almost nothing.
 
You could buy a bolt from Pacific sell your old one to offset the cost be a nice custom touch that add value to the action.  What you need to do is find a good gunsmith.
 
I used a 700 action for my 280AI I had the right bolt face but I did add a Sako extractor and the action had been squared.
 
I like the 7mag still have my first custom build toward the end of the 60's in 7mag.    My wife shoot a Forbes UL rifle in 280AI has a Kreiger barrel it gets 3000fps plus with 150gr TSX so I had alittle experience with the 280AI but I want to shoot alittle heavier bullets 160/168gr maybe try some 180gr
 
I never build my 280AI to equal another caliber if I wanted a 7mag etc I build that.  Comparing just makes good hype for the internet experts.  If you look at Nolser data for the 280AI 3000fps plus with 160gr bullet is easy to get if you add barrel length you can get alittle more.

This is a good illustration of why it would not be logical to go the 280AI route with this rifle. If you throw enough money at something, of course you could do it, esp. if common sense is discarded. Let's see, 300.00 for the action, another 200.00 for bushy bolt or money for a different one. Now, you have to change tubes, another $300.00, let's throw in another 100.00 minimum to do the work, little cheap but hey. So. easily 900.00-1000.00 invested.
Or, get the rifle for 300.00 which is 75+ faster than the 280AI anyway, headspace the cases on the shoulder & be done with it. Again, wildcats are better left to seasoned handloaders.
 
Again, Ethan looks like you are going the smart route, good luck!!

[drdougrx]

ETHAN......buy the gun....leave the caliber alone.....get a better scope....bed the action if necessary....change out the trigger with a timney.  Shoot, shoot, shoot......

[Brithunter]

Nice BSA action, I had one barrelled in .222 Remington, the only weak point with the BSA is the trigger, otherwise a great and nice looking action.
 
Advantages of the 7 Mag belted case over the .280 Remington case:
 
1. Headspace is more sure using the belt.
2. Gas protection and chamber sealing is better due to the belt.
3. Use of stock factory ammo.

Actually the trigger on the early BSA's was good and very adjustable, it was late on once the accountants started their tricks that they were not so good  , now as for the other points:-


1.  Sorry but seeing as how many makes of cases vary the thickness of the belt it's anything but sure. The normal shoulder head spacing IS much more precise. I chambered mine as per Ackley's method 0.006" short so factory ammunition is a crush fit.


2. The belt was originally put on so facilitate easy extraction is break open double rifles and as mentioned above as the belt s position and thickness often varies between makes I cannot agree with your statement.


3.  A 280AI chambered as per Ackelys method can use std factory ammo which is why it's known as a fire-formed Improved.


I also have an original BSA Regent in .222 Remington  .

[Graybeard]

I suppose some might look at the .280 AI as a substitute for the various 7mm magnums but the logic of that escapes me. The 7mm Rem Mag is about as common as it gets most everwhere I think so far easier to locate and to find ammo for as well.

There are a few rounds I've long wanted to own rifles for most I've never done much to get one for myself.

My first was an old half sporterized military mauser in 7x57. Hated the junk rifle but kinda fell in love with the round. I've never owned another 7x57 since but have thought long and hard about it. Instead I've owned a pile of 7-08 which duplicate the performance and works better in a short action.

Another is the .280 Remington. I've actually been trying to work my way into one of those since Remington chambered the mountain rifle in it and finally just recently got my first a limited edition CDL with stainless fluted barrel.

The .280 AI is another and I could have it easily enough from my new .280 but I've not had it long enough to even think of a rechamber.

Lastly in the 7mm bore is a 7mm Weatherby. Nope the bland Remington mag won't do me it would have to be the Weatherby to get me to buy another belted magnum. I've only owned two such rifles in my life a .300 Win Mag in what effectively was one of the very first mtn rifles Remington made. Whoa that thing hurt and I didn't even fire the entire box of either the 150 or 180 grain bullets I bought with it. Traded it on a .270 just like it.

I also own a .257 Whby Magnum in the Remington 700 LSS. I like it and it is a keeper unlike the Weatherby Vanguard in same caliber I tried once. That's what should have been the .300 mag it was so heavy it might have helped tame the recoil.

I don't look at the AI as a replacement for anything really just another interesting round to think about.

[mcwoodduck]

.
 
Advantages of the .280 Remington case over the 7 Mag case:
 
2. Does not require a magnum bolt action or conversion to one.

Bolt Action come in four lengths.  Micro (223 sized CTGs) Short (308 Sized ctgs) Long / standard (30-06) and Magnum (375 H&H sized CTGS) I guess you can add a 5th frame size for the 50 BMG
7mm Mag does not require a mag action.  Roy Weather by had been playing with 300 H&H cases sincethe mid 40's.  He made 257 to fit in a standard action. When winchester came out with the belted short mags (.264, .338 and .458) they were done so they would work on a Standard action (30-06 length)  Not a mag action (like 375H&H,416 rigby). Norma followed shortly with a 308 Norma that is what 300 Win was going to be but Win moved the shoulder forward and shortened the neck to make 300 Win Mag.  Remington jumped on the band wagon and came out with the 7mm Rem Mag and pretty much killed 264 Win mag.  Later they came out with 416 Remington for dangerous game on a necked up 7mm case to fit in the cheaper standard action and rival 416 Rigby in speed, pressure is a different story and with dangerous game in the heat the 416 Rigby wins.  But if cold dangerous game is what you are after (bears) the 416 Rem would be a better choice. 7mm Weatherby is an improved version of the 7mm Rem and if you want to modify the 7mm Rem to gain more speed rechambering it to 7mm WBY is an option.
The 300H&H, 300 Wby ( basically a Weatherby improved 300 H&H), 8mm Remington, 7mm Shooting times Western, 7mm RUM, 375 H&H and 458 Lott all need a magnum action.
I understand you like the 280 and the improved version may do exactly what 7mm rem Mag does and you can argue the merits of the designs of one over the other till you are blue in the face.  But in this case, the $300 rifle is already a 7mm Rem mag.  Do you really think the merrits of 280 AI warrent the expense to change the barrel and bolt face to get the SAME bullet to go the same speed?  It is not simply taking a reamer to 280 to make the AI version vs opening the bolt face and rechambering to 7mm Mag.  And maybe the names are the confussing part.  280 was once called 7mm Remington Express they changed the name to 280 as people were getting the express and mag confussed and loads of ammo was purchaed wrong.  In some cases I think the wrong ammo ordered by shops and distributors helped to sell rifles.

[roper]

.  Do you really think the merrits of 280 AI warrent the expense to change the barrel and bolt face to get the SAME bullet to go the same speed?  It is not simply taking a reamer to 280 to make the AI version vs opening the bolt face and rechambering to 7mm Mag. 
 
I think the the OP has a fair idea "NOW" on how much the cost would be to go from a 7mag to a 280AI and I'm sure he make the right decision.
 
Me I wouldn't have a problem making the change over and I sure won't worry about what caliber on the existing action once I make the decision to part out the action.  I'd be more concerned on what new caliber I'm going to have build as to the bolt I'd trade it off get me the right bolt that's no big deal.
 
 

[Brithunter]

Bolt Action come in four lengths.  Micro (223 sized CTGs) Short (308 Sized ctgs) Long / standard (30-06) and Magnum (375 H&H sized CTGS) I guess you can add a 5th frame size for the 50 BMG

Ahhhhh  methinks there is some errors in there 


The short action was developed for the .22 Hornet length before the .222 was even dreamed up let alone the .223. normal was for things like the 7x57 we ARE talking Bolt Actions and most US one ARE based upon the Mauser principals.... the .308 length came along much ................... much later. to we actually have:-


Mini = .22 Hornet etc
Short =  51 mm case  1.e .308 and it's family
Normal = 57mm... the Mauser family
Long = 64mm i.e the 06 family ( 270 win etc)
Magnum = .375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 404 Jeffries etc
. 50 BMG


  So in fact you have 6 lengths.


   Mauser Obendorf made 4 lengths if we include the 13mm anti tank rifle. The 30-06 fitted into the normal std Mauser action the mini or short for the .22 hornet or .250 Savage if I recall correctly and magnum for the big game rounds. I have not included the special slanted mag box action they made to the .303 British as it was not a main stream production model it seems.

[RevJim]

 Like most here, a Remington in 7mag for $300 is a great deal. I had one for years, back in the late '70s & early '80s. I loaded it up, down, and used it for everything from crows to Texas whitetail. It is one of the Premier long range deer rounds and with the right loads, poison on elk! If the recoil bothers you, have it mag na Ported. It's worthy of a high quality scope/good trigger job or replacement. Now, I've also had a standard 280 and a 280AI, both did what the 7mag did for what I was using it for. I enjoyed both ( got tired of forming brass for the 280AI though!) and the only mistake I made was rechambering the 280AI in a standard 22" barreled Mountain Rifle; I gained exactly 50fps with my favortoe load! I feel it needs at least a 24" bbl, and 26" is better. I also played with a  couple 7mmSTW rifles, both were accurate,etc, did nothing the standard 7mag did'nt do  "for what I used it for". Now, time marched on, those rifles are gone and I now have a little Kimber 84M in 7mm08, which does everything the 280/280AI in short bbl did for me; a 7mm RUM, which is much faster than my old 7mag, but in truth, no better in the field, but the rifle was a gift. I also picked up a half-sporterized Model '93 7mm Mauser out of nostagia. I only shoot factory 173gr S&B ammo out of it.
  All this is to say to "start" with the original 7mag for $300. Scope it, trick it out, shoot it, handload for it, and learn. You may stay right there, you may discover you love experimenting and go on to other 7mms. Living in Utah, from prairies to 12,000ft Alpine mountains, a standard 7mag is as popular as the 30.06, for good reason. Good luck to you!

[mcwoodduck]

Bolt Action come in four lengths.  Micro (223 sized CTGs) Short (308 Sized ctgs) Long / standard (30-06) and Magnum (375 H&H sized CTGS) I guess you can add a 5th frame size for the 50 BMG

Ahhhhh  methinks there is some errors in there 


The short action was developed for the .22 Hornet length before the .222 was even dreamed up let alone the .223. normal was for things like the 7x57 we ARE talking Bolt Actions and most US one ARE based upon the Mauser principals.... the .308 length came along much ................... much later. to we actually have:-


Mini = .22 Hornet etc
Short =  51 mm case  1.e .308 and it's family
Normal = 57mm... the Mauser family
Long = 64mm i.e the 06 family ( 270 win etc)
Magnum = .375 H&H, 416 Rigby, 404 Jeffries etc
. 50 BMG


  So in fact you have 6 lengths.


   Mauser Obendorf made 4 lengths if we include the 13mm anti tank rifle. The 30-06 fitted into the normal std Mauser action the mini or short for the .22 hornet or .250 Savage if I recall correctly and magnum for the big game rounds. I have not included the special slanted mag box action they made to the .303 British as it was not a main stream production model it seems.

Ok.
But the 303 length, while a weak action and can only take 303 Brit pressures is still a Standard length action.  The Indian Ispore No1 shoots 308 Win and has room for 30-06 / 7mm/ 8mm or any of the factory wildcats if the action would take it, and you would have to make a new magizine.  And somewhere didn't I say current production has X Lengths.  we are after all talking about a Remington 700.   You cvan fit the 06 family and all of the short belted mags like 7mm Rem in a 98 action so are the Normal and long action the same? You also forgot the Destroyer carbine that was a 9mm Largo action and shorter than the Micro action but sadly it is no long made.  I would love to have one for a number of cool rounds like 7.63 Mauser or 7.62X25 Tok.  5.7X28.  And 38 Super.or 30 Luger / micro whisper (30 Luger with 125 to 150 grain 308 bullets)  But this is not about my wants.

[Brithunter]

No I did not forget the destroyer but that was a Spanish designed and manufactured rifle and not an Obendorf and the 303 British I spoke of was a Mauser 98 and not a Lee Enfield. As for the Indian Ishapore ............................. well your welcome to shoot .308 and such through them......................................... but please do so many miles from me.. I do not trust Indian steel nor their workmanship.


Now sorry I did not realise that you were only talking about the Woolies rifle......................................................   as it's made for steel tube just like the Sten gun and that was designed to be made that way so they could use cheap unskilled labour and the Stem was known as the Woolies (Woolworths was a chain store that sold everything for Sixpence [£0 0s 6d]) the name fits the 700 to  Teeeeee.

[mcwoodduck]

Wool Worths here was also known as the 5 and 10.  With items costing 5 or 10 pennies.
I too am a little leary of the 308 Indian No1.  The enfield design is perfect for the 303 and it is a great round.
Yes people bad mouth any new design.
But back to the 7mm Remington.  It is hard to beat it as a ctg for most big game no matter the platform it is launched from.

[Brithunter]

As for the 7mm Rem Mag well the only draw back that really has any merit is the belted case. The design and idea is fine but the execution by some makers is the "fly in the ointment". Seems they get a bit liberal with the belt specs which is why a lot of people adjust to head space on the shoulder rather than the belt.


The ONLY reason I got a 300 Win Mag and not the 7mm Rem mag some years back was that the Ruger No1B in .300 Win Mag has that Leupold Vari X 111 fitted and the P-H M81 classic only had a set of rings. I was stupid actually as the P-H M81 was the better rifle and one I would most likely still have. The Ruger was traded off several years back now. I did get to shoot the M81 as someone in the club brought it and it shot very nicely. The Ruger shot well too I might add. I still kick myself for letting that M81 slip past as it was almost new  .


As pointed out there is not much one cannot tackle with a well place 7mm bullet of suitable construction    and the 7mm Rem mag cartridge certainly delivers the velocity.