Jane Fonda - Crybaby, claims QVC is unfair!

[yellowtail3]

James Bond Stockdale

Yellow;  ...You MUST be kidding ! Do you mean Rear Admiral James Stockdale ?

No, I meant Vice Admiral Stockdale. And why would I be kidding? Clearly, you have never read his book, and don't know much about him, other than he was Perot's running mate.
just a taste: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale

Where were you when the 1992 VP debates were going on ?  Were you just a kid then ?

No, I was an adult, and had already left active duty.  I know very well who Jim Stockdale was. He retired shortly after I came in. I read his book in the mid-80s when it was published. Stunning read. If you read it, you'll learn a few things.
http://www.amazon.com/Love-War-Familys-Sacrifice-Vietnam/product-reviews/0060153180/ref=cm_cr_dp_all_helpful?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

Is this the "esteemed scholar" whom you are referring to ?

I didn't call him an esteemed scholar, but that's not too far off for a career line officer; he did earn a master's degree in International Relations at Stanford while on active duty (he did his undergraduate work at Annapolis).

Do you go to him for incredible historical accuracy ?

That is not how I'd phrase it, but on some subjects - such as a first-hand account of the (bogus) Tonkin Gulf incident and POW experience at Ho Loa? - absolutely yes.

Remember, time often wears unkindly, even on heroes.  Seeing how you took Adm Stockdale serious, now we know why both you and TM are such big fans of General Smedly Butler !

You remind me of Pejman Yousefzadeh. He had the intellectual integrity to look a little further, and the honesty to admit his error. Do you? Have a look:
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_072805_Yousefzadeh,00.html

[Sensai]

 
 
Can I love her for Heaven's sake, but still hate her for my own?   

Richard, that's one of my biggest failings.  As a Christian I know that I am commanded to forgive; but as a MedEvac pilot who was there at the time, and saw the product of her treason, I can't.  I'll keep trying and maybe, with grace, it will come.

[yellowtail3]

Richard, that's one of my biggest failings.  As a Christian I know that I am commanded to forgive; but as a MedEvac pilot who was there at the time, and saw the product of her treason, I can't.  I'll keep trying and maybe, with grace, it will come.

I'll submit, Sensai - respectfully - that what you saw was not the product of Jane Fonda or Jane Fonda's 'treason' - it was the product of US foreign policy, and decisions by the US Gov't.

Keep trying, brother... but if you don't know Fonda, she doesn't need to be too high a priority on the forgiveness list!

[lakota]

So Jane Fonda's actions did nothing to boost the morale of or emboldent the actions of the enemy or hurt the morale of american troops?

[powderman]

So Jane Fonda's actions did nothing to boost the morale of or emboldent the actions of the enemy or hurt the morale of american troops?

 
LAKOTA. Of course she helped destroy the morale of our troops, and YES, she emboldened and gave hope to our enemies. Thanks to her and other traitors like her the war drug on needlessly seeing thousands more Americans killed , wounded, and maimed for life. That was, still is, always will be the goal of liberals and other  communists. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

Richard, that's one of my biggest failings.  As a Christian I know that I am commanded to forgive; but as a MedEvac pilot who was there at the time, and saw the product of her treason, I can't.  I'll keep trying and maybe, with grace, it will come.

I'll submit, Sensai - respectfully - that what you saw was not the product of Jane Fonda or Jane Fonda's 'treason' - it was the product of US foreign policy, and decisions by the US Gov't.

Keep trying, brother... but if you don't know Fonda, she doesn't need to be too high a priority on the forgiveness list!

I cry BS on this . They did not send her th North Vietnam or put words in her mouth . Both the Govt. and her should ansewer for their own actions . Next thing we will hear is her father being famous caused her to do it . Or she didn't get enough spoiling as a kid. Good geief !

[yellowtail3]

I cry BS on this .

You can cry BS on the moon landings, too, if you'd like.

58,000 of our fellow citizens dead - in an undeclared war, launched on false pretense - were not the fault of hippy-dippy Jane Fonda.

Next thing we will hear is her father being famous caused her to do it . Or she didn't get enough spoiling as a kid.

Maybe... we can wait & see if someone (besides you?) makes those claims.

Good geief !

Good geief, indeed... .

Thanks to her and other traitors like her the war drug on needlessly seeing thousands more Americans killed , wounded, and maimed for life.

Utterly false. Are you operating under the impression that North Vietnam was about to fold, and Jane Fonda helped 'em hang in there? If so, you are misinformed.

This reminds me of Hitler and his nationalist buddies who said after WW1 - 'We would have won the war if we virtuous German soldiers weren't stabbed in the back by treasonous Jews, Socialists, and Marxists!'

Just in case that's hard to understand, here's a picture:

[lakota]

So since it was an undeclared war launched under false pretenses we should ignore her whoring around with the enemy and slandering American P.O.W.'s and service men?
 
Since most of those people were conscripts perhaps her time would have been better used in Washington D.C. bashing the government instead of insulting people that were doing what the government demanded of them so that maybe one day they could go back to their lives.

[Casull]

 

  Quote from: powderman on Today at 12:35:48 PM

Thanks to her and other traitors like her the war drug on needlessly seeing thousands more Americans killed , wounded, and maimed for life.

  Utterly false. Are you operating under the impression that North Vietnam was about to fold, and Jane Fonda helped 'em hang in there? If so, you are misinformed.

   "Utterly false" according to who?  Not according to some higher ups in the NV military.  So, what is your source?

[BUGEYE]

IG,  I have a couple of folks on ignore so I only get snippets in quotes from them.
but I do have a picture in my mind of anyone who admires stockdale. the man was a complete buffoon

[Casull]

As you know here...the closer you get to the crux of an issue the more the crying and finger pointing picks up.

tm, exactly how does your above statement differ substantively from mine? 

[yellowtail3]

So since it was an undeclared war launched under false pretenses we should ignore her whoring around with the enemy and slandering American P.O.W.'s and service men?

No, but you could recognize it much ado about nothing, a bitter bunch of peeps who want to justify VN war, and find scapegoats for America's defeat in that war.

In fact, NVN was in bad shape in 1969, after the horrendous pounding by the US military... but the didn't win because of Jane Fonda. They won because they had a good cause, popular support, we didn't have popular support here. We meddled in a political conflict we had no business in, and... got out-fought. 58,000 Americans and a couple million Vietnamese died, in large part due to our gov't decision to go to launch that war.

Imagine if we'd not passed TGR, and hadn't built up troops in 65-67... the south would have fallen a lot quick, we wouldn't have lost those peeps, and a couple million Vietnamese spared.

re Gulf of Tonkin incident, leading to Resolution: read Stockdale's book. He flew both missions, on 8/2/64 and 8/4/64. On 8/2, he was the pilot on scene who say Turner Joy & Maddox shooting at NOTHING. He, too, strafed nothing, on directions from the DDs. He flew back the boat and said there was nothing out there, went to bed. The next morning he was woken up, told to prepare for a strike in retaliation... "In retailation for what?" - 'the attack on the Turner Joy & Maddox". Stockdale sat up in his rack, rattled, and foresaw we were launching a war based on an event that did not happen. A year later, he was in captivity.
 

Since most of those people were conscripts perhaps her time would have been better used in Washington D.C. bashing the government instead of insulting people that were doing what the government demanded of them so that maybe one day they could go back to their lives.

That may be. Opposition of the war war really cranking up in 1968/69. I suspect if you talked to Fonda today - and I don't know her, don't know all that much about her - I suspect she's have a diff perspective now.

the stuff she said about war criminals and POW lying... appalling BS. I suspect she'd say as much now. Maybe not. FYI... I'm a veteran, the son of a Vietnam combat veteran, and a student of US military history. Never was a fan of Fonda. I've said my fair share of nasty things about her, but I'm reforming.

What has happened in this thread? I pointed out that a story about her was an outright fabrication and a lie... and all kinds of upset results.   We've got some loose screws running around here... .

[ironglow]

Yellowtail;
    Perhaps you just don't "get it"..the guys here are calling Fonda a traitor.  It does appear that you are just trolling to be an agent provocateur...so lay off accusing others of name-calling.
   I think that anyone who falsely accuses other posters of name calling..and does it often, ought to be considered for a ban..
 
  Bugeye;
  I hesitate to do this, because he was a genuine hero, but this is from Wikipedia speaking of his later years;
***********************************************************************************
  Sailors carry Stockdale's casket during his funeral service at the U.S. Naval Academy ChapelStockdale retired to Coronado, California, as he slowly succumbed to Alzheimer's disease.^[14] He died from the illness on July 5, 2005. Stockdale's funeral service was held at the Naval Academy Chapel and he was buried at the United States Naval Academy Cemetery

[srussell]

 this is not about who started the war are who won. its about  Jane Fonda going to N. V( on her own) with out the consent of the U.S  in a time of war and preaching treason against the U.S  armed forces.  has nothing to do with what if and how come .she made her money here and yet had no respect for the military force that gave her the the right to make it

[yellowtail3]

yellow. You either do not understand the written word or just love stirring. The NVA colonel, or general, in his book clearly stated that they were beaten and ready to quit til the hate America crowd started supporting them and gave them hope. Straight from the horses mouth. POWDERMAN.

I'm literate, and I'm familiar with the argument. Tell us: what was the name of the book by the NVA colonel (or general, or plumber, or chicken farmer, whatever) that you read? Maybe you'll post an excerpt?
I'm trying to imagine you, Powderman, carefully perusing Giap's We Will Win...

I do have a picture in my mind of anyone who admires stockdale. the man was a complete buffoon

Did I read that right - James Stockdale, a buffoon?

Senior-most POW, who led Ho Lao resistance. Commander and CAG, promoted to Captain while in captivity - buffoon?

Scholar, university president, and philosopher - buffoon?

Winner of the Medal of Honor, and 26 combat awards - including two Distinguished Flying Crosses, three Distinguished Service Medals, two Purple Hearts and four Silver Stars - Buffoon?

He was a member of the Carrier Hall of Fame and the National Aviation Hall of Fame and an honorary fellow of the Society of Experimental Test Pilots. Buffoon?

Will someone ask Bugeye how he comes to that conclusion? I'd be curious to know...

[powderman]

this is not about who started the war are who won. its about  Jane Fonda going to N. V( on her own) with out the consent of the U.S  in a time of war and preaching treason against the U.S  armed forces.  has nothing to do with what if and how come she made her money here and yet had no respect for the military force that gave her the the right to make it

 
Good post Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[lakota]

I dont give a crap if she helped the enemy win or the US lose the war. I am not looking for justification for the war.
 
Her words injured US service men and her words may very well be responsible for the abuse they suffered from the hippee fringe when they returned home. The draft was in effect. When drafted a person had several choices- flee to Canada, spend time in jail, or do the unthinkable-do what the government was attempting to coerce them in to doing with the hope that they would live long enought to return to what life they knew before the war. If anyone can find fault with that then they have a serious problem. I dont give a damn about Jane Fonda and how she feels now. Her going to North Vietnam to verbally assualt P.O.W.s is inexcusable. She can now live with the lingering side effects

I am not talking about wars and governments and the weak justifications governments use to start wars. I am talking about PEOPLE..people that were muddling through doing what they had to do to get back to their lives and their families and we had a spoiled little peice of crap going over there and treating them as if they were sub humans. She can quit her whining and go pound salt.

But I give up...It seems ANYTHING anti american is very appealing to a certain sect here.

[mirage1988]

Isn't it funny?
-The same 2 guys here defending hanoi jane are the same 2 that can't stand Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman? There would be 3 but junior has been strangely absent lately(?)
- I'll stand behind the woman that knows that guns are shot from the shoulder rather than straddling them like a horse.

[rwng]

Fonda is sickening, to say the least. You can't act one way and then years later expect it to be forgotten and forgiven by everyone. She never got her "come upins" but now is starting to feel it. The only difference today is, the activists only hate the wars and not the boys that are fighting them.
 
You reap what you sow.

[ironglow]

 
 
  Quote from: SHOOTALL on Today at 07:31:37 AM

When one turns the other cheek one must protect it better than he did the first cheek *******************************
 
..So Yellow asks;

  Got a scripture reference for that?
  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
   Sure do Yellow...And an outstanding Bible student like yourself should already know it !
   
 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Luke 22:35-38 King James Version (KJV)    ³⁵And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.  ³⁶Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.  ³⁷For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.  ³⁸And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough..
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
      So Yellow, Do you have a reference for your "punching bag" ideal ?
 
   BTW:  I'd be pleased to let you know when I start a new Bible study series.  It will be soon, and will be entitled;
          " Current Events With Reference to The Bible"     ...a very well received series..which I update and teach every couple years..

[powderman]

LAKOTA, MIRAGE. All true, other good posts here too. YEP, same 2 posters. Ya gotta remember with certain folks, America==BAD. Traitors==GOOD. POWDERMAN. 

[OldSchoolRanger]

So since it was an undeclared war launched under false pretenses we should ignore her whoring around with the enemy and slandering American P.O.W.'s and service men?
 
Since most of those people were conscripts perhaps her time would have been better used in Washington D.C. bashing the government instead of insulting people that were doing what the government demanded of them so that maybe one day they could go back to their lives.

lakota - I couldn't have stated it better. 
That YT is the crux of the anger by Vietnam vets!  I still share it, and no one will ever change my mind.

[OldSchoolRanger]

Even the national media agrees:

By:  Andrea Peyser, NY Post columnist: July 21, 2011 (Thursday)

JANE REMAINS 'HANOI'-ING
  Hanoi Jane is having a senior meltdown.
  Jane Fonda, who posed gleefully atop an American-killing antiaircraft gun in North Vietnam in 1972, lashed out crazily at shopping channel QVC after it canceled the elder traitor's scheduled TV appearance to promote her new book on aging, "Prime Time."
  "I am, to say the least, deeply disappointed that QVC caved to this kind of insane pressure by some well-funded and organized political extremist groups," Fonda, 73, blasted on her Web site last weekend -- failing to name the extremists out to get her.
  "Most people don't buy into the far-right lies," wrote Fonda. "None of it is true. NONE OF IT!" And, "I have never done anything to hurt my country."
  In her 2005 memoir, Fonda apologized profusely for climbing atop the enemy gun. QVC, by the way, said Fonda was dropped as part of a routine scheduling change. See ya, Jane.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/harry_potter_scribe_casts_sexist_nuCQQCw3HVyMQXtKmmPdrM#ixzz1SnhG8NXU

[powderman]

Most people don't buy into the far-right lies," wrote Fonda. "None of it is true. NONE OF IT!" And, "I have never done anything to hurt my country."
 
 
What a liar. POWDERMAN.   

[Hodr]

Objective and researchable facts on Jane Fonda;
As late as 2005 Jane Fonda showed up on 60 minutes.  During the show she stated as I remember, "The only thing I regret is sitting in an enemy anti aircraft gun....."
In 2005 she found it necessary to maintain funding for a movie, (Monster-in-Law), that was in trouble due to Veterans objections.
There are multiple interviews since 1972 trip to Vietnam in which she has continued to call US personnell military muderers and war criminals.
The above are available on the internet.  For those on either side of the thread subject this is all documented and available.
By her own admission, in the 2005 60 minutes interview, she knew and has known that she was in an ENEMY anti-aircraft gun at a time when the US was engaged in armed conflict.  At that time she offered aid to the enemy with knowledge aforethought.  Aid to the enemy was made available in the propaganda use, freely donated by Jane Fonda, including but not limited to the pictures she posed for in North Viet Nam and the speeches she made from Radio Hanoi.  This would seem to qualify as treason defined by Orans dictionary of the law.  Punishment for treason of US citizens is laid out in US Code 18 usc-2381.  To those who wish to know rather than vent thier spleen without justification over Jane Fonda, I believe I have showed you where to look.
The only conclusion I have been able to reach is that Jane Fonda did indeed commit treason in 1972, that she has never shown remorse for her reactions, and continues in them to this day.
I cannot say that I know without qualifications that Jane Fonda has caused personal injury/damage to Us military personnell, the charge of treason though as defined by law, that she did.
I do not buy from or finacially support traitors.  I will not forgive, I will not forget.
 
Hodr
Gentlemen the toast
Absent Companions
 
 

[powderman]

HODR. Good post again, all true. When you see folks supporting a traitor it gives a pretty clear picture of the values and character, really lack of, of the persons supporting her. POWDERMAN. 

[yellowtail3]

Hey Powderman - are you gonna share with us the book you read by the Vietnamese Colonel (or general)?

Isn't it funny?
-The same 2 guys here defending hanoi jane are the same 2 that can't stand Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman?

Do you mean me, Mr Mirage? Bachman? Ive no beef with Palin - in fact, I think I've posted here that she's the hottest Prez candidate around! Bachman... ? Not much opinion on her, as I don't know much about her. Are you trying to squeeze me into one of your ideological pigeon-holes?

- I'll stand behind the woman that knows that guns are shot from the shoulder rather than straddling them like a horse.

Hey, if you're thinking Palin... stand behind her. I saw her hunt on the toob, she can't shoot worth squat.

This is my rifle, this is my gun... this is for fighting, this is for fun...

[ironglow]

  Here's some more info on Hanoi Jane   http://cartoonsbyhenry.com/?tag=hanoi-jane     For more fun, just click onto the evil faces across the top of the page..
   See picture below for an actual quote from Hanoi Jane.  It typifies what most veterans (and other sensible people) know to be the real Jane Fonda !
 

[ironglow]

  Just a memory refresher..Here's Hanoi Jane at her proudest; cavorting with the VC captors of tortured GIs.  No denying, she is enjoying giving "aid & comfort" to the enemy.  TREASON... in anybody's lexicon !
   http://crockettlives.wordpress.com/2011/07/16/hanoi-jane-rides-again/
   Below; see her with her communist "raised fist" salute..same gesture recently used by the unionistas in Wisconsin.
 
 

[yellowtail3]

Ironglow, if you're gonna go on a trip down right-wing revisionism memory lane, you probably ought to review the sort of thing Fonda an other opponents of the war were unhappy about - you're a fan of context, right?

They wanted the US out of the mis-guided, immoral, bloody war we'd launched. Quiet conversations and polite letters to legislators were apparently ineffective.

If you could have asked him, I suspect this little boy would have agreed with critics of the war. But you can't ask him; he's dead.

Hopefully, he didn't see his mother raped before the soldiers killed him:

(photo removed of child killed by US troops in Vietnam)

Where would Jesus side in this?