Author Topic: Pietta 51 Navy .36  (Read 2766 times)

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Offline greenrivers

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Pietta 51 Navy .36
« on: July 20, 2011, 11:10:42 AM »
After more than a week of owning this pretty piece, I finally got to shoot it today. About halfway through the session I was almost ready to take it back as it was not shooting accurately with the light to recommended loads I was using. And even slightly crimping the caps did not seem to keep them on. I started upping the charge and as I did accuracy seemed to improve a lot. By the end of the session, it had found a new home. A bit more tweeking and it could be a very accurate and beautiful piece.
My question is what nipples are recommended that seem to hold the caps in place?
Thanks guys.
 

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2011, 12:03:09 PM »
The Italian nipples seem to vary a lot in size and different brands of caps vary a bit as well. It is important that the caps fit the nipple, sung enough to not fall off and not so tight as to be impossible to fully seat them. If a cap falls off a nipple there is a chance for chainfire.
 Some nipples are best fit with a #10 cap and others take a #11 cap. I have had revolvers of both sizes so to simplify my life and assure that I don't arrive at the range with caps which don't fit the revolver I plan to shoot I have replaced all of the nipples with TRESCO/AMPCO brand which all take a #11 CCI cap. I'd suggest you contact "Track of the Wolf", they are helpful and knowledgeable folks and can provide the correct nipples for any revolver.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Higene

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2011, 12:05:31 PM »
I too have just picked up a 51 in .36cal. It shoots high with all loads. I am in the process of correcting that. It does seem to group well and I still have high hopes for it. It is a beautiful gun.


PS my only other ding on the gun is that I got a lot of caps being blown apart and crap fouling the action with the original nipples. I got a set of Treso nipples from Track of the Wolf. A tad spendy with shipping. They are at the least pretty (I have not shot them yet).

Offline greenrivers

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 02:01:38 AM »
This is the first gun I have had that had this problem. The second cylinder, three of the six fell off after having been seated them with a bullet starter for my rifle and I was a bit concerned about a chain fire. The blow back through the nipples is destroying the caps and threatening a lock up. I know the loads are well below what should be an issue and suspect the nipples. After polishing the barrel and cylinders and a little bit of deburring around the cylinder locking lug, it was holding four inche or less groups with off hand shooting at twenty five yards.  With that kind of accuracy, it stays. As with all open tops, mine to shot about four inches high and I expected it. Looks like Track of the Wolf will be getting a call.
Thanks guys.

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2011, 08:15:02 AM »
Stock nipples on repros are more or less a crapshoot as to size of the cone and flash hole.  Two mods to your gun will stop caps from blowing off (or being pulled off) and getting in the lockwork.  1.  Treso nipples.  the smaller diameter flash hole does not allow excessive blowback.  2.  fill the safety notch in the hammer with JB weld/epoxy/solder.  The notch allows a blown cap to deform more than a flat faced hammer which allows the hammer to either pull the cap off, or let it drop easier.  I recently shot a pair of Uberti '61 Navies in a 12 stage match with four practice stages over three days.  That's 80 rounds per pistol.  Using Treso nipples, #10 Remington caps, and filled hammer notches, only one cap fell off the nipple and that was on the next to the last stage on the third day, and it didn't jam the pistol up.
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Offline greenrivers

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2011, 01:53:12 AM »
Exactly what I was looking for, experianced sound advice. You both find the Tresco to be better, but are they specific in cap size? Number ellevens seem to be about all that is stocked around my area.

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2011, 06:54:26 AM »
Tresos are listed as being for #11s (CCI); but, #10 Remingtons is all I've ever used.
 
Here's a chart with nominal cap sizes.
 
 
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee
Man of many Colt's and alter ego of Diabolical Ken
SASS Regulator 28654-L-TG, Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire
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"Cynic:  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees thing as they are, not as they should be."  Ambrose Bierce

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2011, 07:33:59 AM »
That's interesting Fingers, the Remington #10 seems to be larger than the Remington #11 but I guess the important thing is "what fits is what works". ;D
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2011, 11:10:31 AM »
Actually the Rem#10 fits better cause the nipple is tapered & the Rem#10 is taller than the Rem#11.  The CCI 11 is closer to the Rem 10 in size.  I've actually never tried the CCI 11 on Treso Nipples so I can't really say whether it is a better fit or not.  I've steered away from CCI caps for a long time cause of troubles with them back in the 80s.  I've had good results with Rem 10s; but, maybe I'll try some CCIs and see how they work.
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee
Man of many Colt's and alter ego of Diabolical Ken
SASS Regulator 28654-L-TG, Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire
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"Cynic:  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees thing as they are, not as they should be."  Ambrose Bierce

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2011, 11:33:29 AM »
I think the Remington caps are less brittle than CCI and therefore less inclined to fly to bits when fired in a revolver, but CCI is all I can find locally and they are just fine for all but revolvers.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline deacon stone

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2011, 06:31:33 PM »
Nobody knows Cap&Balls better then Fingers. And I agree with him on Remington #10 caps on Treso nipples. I have CCI #11 caps and I only use them to clean the cylinders. They don't always go off on the first time around. But I yet to have a Remington #10 cap not go off since I installed them. Nipples aren't cheap but they are really all you have to do to make a factory gun read to shoot. Other then work on the hammer like Fingers describes in an earlier post.  :) :) :)

Offline greenrivers

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 10:52:40 AM »
Sounded like good advice and I placed an order with Track of the Wolf on Friday for the nipples and some other items. Thanks all.

Offline greenrivers

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 01:19:37 PM »
I remember watching westerns on t.v. with my grandfather when I was a young fella, and making a remark about the actor (Gabby Hayes?) bringing the revolver back over his shoulder and upside down while recocking it. I was immediatly told that that was proper form if you did not want a jammed action as he was clearing the busted cap. Guess this is not a new issue.

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 11:52:23 AM »
Very rarely will any of my Pietta's give me troubles in the cap dept. Once in a while a cap will come off and jam up the works, but I figure it's all part of the game. I'm sure a few of the incidences that happened way back when were pretty similar. I suppose that way back when they overcame the problem by using cartridge revolvers when available.  :-\

Offline Gatofeo

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2011, 07:06:24 PM »
Don't be discouraged about poor accuracy from a new gun.
Every cap and ball I've owned wasn't immediately accurate, straight from the box. The worst I experienced was a new Uberti-made Remington .44 Army. At 25 yards, from a benchrest, I was shooting at a target in the center of a 4X4 sheet of plywood.
The first shot hit the edge of the plywood on the ground. The next five shots were all over the plywood. And yes, I had scrubbed that new bore with bronze brush and cleaned it with patches dampened with lighter fluid to remove any factory preservative.
But those first six shots from it had me grumbling. The next six were closer to the target. The third cylinderful hit paper. After that, it seemed to settle down and start to group a bit.
It took me about 50 or 60 shots before that revolver began producing good groups. I was using FFFG black powder, a felt wad containing Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant and a .454 inch ball.
Today, that same revolver will put six balls into a 2" circle consistently at 25 yards, from a benchrest. It's one of my most accurate handguns, and that includes modern ones.
Yet, the first experience almost had me sending it back.
I can't explain it. I've never had a revolver do such a drastic thing before. But other cap and ball revolvers I own have also shown marked accuracy improvement as they were used. I would guess that tiny burrs in the bore were smoothed over, or perhaps the residue of a petroleum product slowly worked out of the steel.
I can't explain it. I've experienced it, though. Keep shooting that revolver and you'll likely see its accuracy improve.
"A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44."

Offline eldoradolee

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2011, 07:52:05 PM »
Stock nipples on repros are more or less a crapshoot as to size of the cone and flash hole.  Two mods to your gun will stop caps from blowing off (or being pulled off) and getting in the lockwork.  1.  Treso nipples.  the smaller diameter flash hole does not allow excessive blowback.  2.  fill the safety notch in the hammer with JB weld/epoxy/solder.  The notch allows a blown cap to deform more than a flat faced hammer which allows the hammer to either pull the cap off, or let it drop easier.  I recently shot a pair of Uberti '61 Navies in a 12 stage match with four practice stages over three days.  That's 80 rounds per pistol.  Using Treso nipples, #10 Remington caps, and filled hammer notches, only one cap fell off the nipple and that was on the next to the last stage on the third day, and it didn't jam the pistol up.
I filled in notch in hammer,works perfect.Thanks much,Lee

Offline greenrivers

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2011, 02:32:49 AM »
My order from Track of the Wolf is in and the nipples are now in the cylinder. With any luck, tommorrow will be the day to test them. I had intended to get #10 caps but neglected to. So the #11 will be a used. Will report differences.

Offline MM44

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2011, 09:39:25 AM »
Gatefeo, having experienced the exact same scenario, I just figured it was me getting used to the new revolver :o ;D
 
Don't be discouraged about poor accuracy from a new gun.
Every cap and ball I've owned wasn't immediately accurate, straight from the box. The worst I experienced was a new Uberti-made Remington .44 Army. At 25 yards, from a benchrest, I was shooting at a target in the center of a 4X4 sheet of plywood.
The first shot hit the edge of the plywood on the ground. The next five shots were all over the plywood. And yes, I had scrubbed that new bore with bronze brush and cleaned it with patches dampened with lighter fluid to remove any factory preservative.
But those first six shots from it had me grumbling. The next six were closer to the target. The third cylinderful hit paper. After that, it seemed to settle down and start to group a bit.
It took me about 50 or 60 shots before that revolver began producing good groups. I was using FFFG black powder, a felt wad containing Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant and a .454 inch ball.
Today, that same revolver will put six balls into a 2" circle consistently at 25 yards, from a benchrest. It's one of my most accurate handguns, and that includes modern ones.
Yet, the first experience almost had me sending it back.
I can't explain it. I've never had a revolver do such a drastic thing before. But other cap and ball revolvers I own have also shown marked accuracy improvement as they were used. I would guess that tiny burrs in the bore were smoothed over, or perhaps the residue of a petroleum product slowly worked out of the steel.
I can't explain it. I've experienced it, though. Keep shooting that revolver and you'll likely see its accuracy improve.

Offline howdy doody

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2011, 06:46:21 PM »
Gatefeo, having experienced the exact same scenario, I just figured it was me getting used to the new revolver :o ;D
 
Don't be discouraged about poor accuracy from a new gun.
Every cap and ball I've owned wasn't immediately accurate, straight from the box. The worst I experienced was a new Uberti-made Remington .44 Army. At 25 yards, from a benchrest, I was shooting at a target in the center of a 4X4 sheet of plywood.
The first shot hit the edge of the plywood on the ground. The next five shots were all over the plywood. And yes, I had scrubbed that new bore with bronze brush and cleaned it with patches dampened with lighter fluid to remove any factory preservative.
But those first six shots from it had me grumbling. The next six were closer to the target. The third cylinderful hit paper. After that, it seemed to settle down and start to group a bit.
It took me about 50 or 60 shots before that revolver began producing good groups. I was using FFFG black powder, a felt wad containing Gatofeo No. 1 Lubricant and a .454 inch ball.
Today, that same revolver will put six balls into a 2" circle consistently at 25 yards, from a benchrest. It's one of my most accurate handguns, and that includes modern ones.
Yet, the first experience almost had me sending it back.
I can't explain it. I've never had a revolver do such a drastic thing before. But other cap and ball revolvers I own have also shown marked accuracy improvement as they were used. I would guess that tiny burrs in the bore were smoothed over, or perhaps the residue of a petroleum product slowly worked out of the steel.
I can't explain it. I've experienced it, though. Keep shooting that revolver and you'll likely see its accuracy improve.

I bought a pair of Pietta 58s and they also shot all over the place from hand. I had also purchased 6 additional cylinders. The problem was with any of the cylinders installed. After about a hundred shots the acccuracy settled down. I am figuring it was the bore setteling in as the cylinders did not make a difference. By the time I slicked the pair up, I found they shoot just great and more accurate than my ROAs are too. All from hand and not bench rested and the 58s are 8" barrels and the Rugers 5 1/2" The ROAs shot the same from the beginning, with only some front sight filing for my loads. They are stainless however. So, just sayin' that seasoning does make a difference on some revolver for sure. :)
yer pard,
Howdy Doody
 
Darksider from Doodyville USA

Offline StrawHat

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Re: Pietta 51 Navy .36
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2011, 03:20:56 AM »
I have no experience with an 1851 but more than a bit with 1860s and 1861s.  I do not fill the gap in the hammer, it is there for a reason, but some do and it seems to work for them.  I have installed a pin in the frame to keep the cap out of the action, it works.  What really works is properly fitted caps and cones and heavy mainsprings.  Once I had it figured out, my shooting is nearly jam free.  Nearly, not totally.  I do not compete anymore but do shoot a lot.  The new cones and well fitting caps will help.
 
Good luck and enjoy!
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