Have I shot it in or shot it out???

[Barrabruce]

I have a handi 30-30 and I usually only use it for cast and Paper patched loads.
I re did the barrel fit per FAQ's and it shot good.

Long storey short I loaned it to a bloke who was thinking of getting one at the range.
I went to lunch and left it with him.
I said he could put a few through it.
When I got back he had the barrell smoking!!!! with factory loads.

Errrgh next time I took it out I found the firing pin broken..must have opened it while having the finger back on the trigger
Fixed that no toubles.


I shot some cast through her after cleaning all the copper junk out of it.
Shot good @ 1" as normal at 100yrds. "low loads"

Went back to paper patches and "fuller loads" and working up a few experiments.

They now have a tendency to string in a vertically to the right when I up the charge in small increments.

The action locks up tight still.
I could just close a 1 thou paper on it when I first done it.
Now I can close a 2.5 Thou paper on it but it won't come out of the closed breach gap.

The action seems loose when I have it open and have about a 1/8" wobble flex side to side.

I have shoot 1500 rounds through it since it was shimmed.

Is it just nicely worn in of needs tightening.

These where "highland ammo " and in our heat of summer they are pretty high end loads compared to the recoil of other factory stuff.I don't shoot hardly any of that muck.

I  found some  factory stuff left and will shoot a few off and compare it to what it was.

Is that signs of high pressure or loose action as I think I read somewhere the action tends to flex to the right during firing??

The contact across the lock up is even and no signs of engagemnt on one side.

Any advice appreciated
I've gone pretty well gone though all the other variables I can think of.
Fore-end is free floated still.

I was thinking I may have swapped over one of the pins when I put it together again but it don't explain the wobble.

Thoughts advice appreciated.
I have just cast and patched some more lead and wrapped and sorted to 1/5 grain increments and "benchrested" this batch of ammo.
Ist off will be the known factory stuff a proper clean and take it from there.

Any advice before I aimlessly blast away???


Bruce

[Slowhanddd]

I think I'd try and tighten it back up some.As you said in the heat,the bigger loads are really heavy.

[dave29]

Sounds like she needs re-shimmed.

1500 rounds on a shim sounds pretty amazing to me. 

[Goatwhiskers]

All this explains why I NEVER lend a gun for any reason whatsoever.  I might sell it to you, heck I might give it to you, but when you lend a gun, tool, whatever, the recipient doesn't care and there's no telling what you might get back.  Goatwhiskers

[petemi]

What's the old saying?  "Never a borrower or a lender be."  I'll let just about anyone shoot my guns WHILE I'M THERE.  I made one exception to that rule.  A farmer friend and neighbor had a lone coyote killing lambs.  I sat out and couldn't get it.  I loaned him my .223 and two days later he brought it back and clean and spiffy and said "Got him, thanks.  Shot him out the bedroom window."  I know the guy well, and knew he'd take good care of it.

The problem you're having is one of the reasons I always keep two or 3 spare SB2 frames.  Trying a "new" used barrel on different frames seems to always work.  One will fit correctly.  I have never had one shoot loose, but backup frames might cure the problem if it happened.  Besides, they are a great incentive to get more stocks and barrels

Pete

[gcrank1]

You think you got all the copper fouling out?
It can take quite a bunch of shooting with cast to re-season that bore, so dont give up until you have at least 50 rounds through it.

[Jimbo47]

Sounds like she needs re-shimmed.

1500 rounds on a shim sounds pretty amazing to me. 

I have to agree!
 
That is a lot of rounds fired from a shimmed barrel having to handle and expect it to hold up.
 
Re-shim and start over!

[Spanky]

Re-shim and start over!

 
And don't loan it out again.
 
 
 
Spanky

[Barrabruce]

Thanks for the advice.

I have gone through the barrell and its clean as I think I can get it.


But then again it took a bit before it shot good with cast first up.
The paper patching has polished her beutifully.
Still I'll do me best to make sure its clean.

Iv'e even had to resort to brushes and copper solvent stuff besides a lick with eds-red.

Those condom bullets are real dirty.

I may have a bit of fore-end work to do. I wrapped paper around the barrell fore-end screw and it seems to have tightened it up some. That is one area I might play with before re-shimming.

If after stuffing around and a paper shim fixes all I'll re- shim it.

Sounds like I need a new set of feeler guages then.

Yeah ....I know... I know.... never lend you car or wife to any-one ...they will only come back.....f'd

Thanks
Bruce

[Goatwhiskers]

The way I heard it was:  my truck, sure; my wife, maybe; my gun, never.  Goatwhiskers

[geezerbiker]

The way I remember it is "don't ask to borrow my gun and I won't ask to borrow your wife."   

Tony

[gcrank1]

Sometimes a 'guy' is just too nice........

[Barrabruce]

  Well took it to the range on the week-end.
IT shot horizontal about 4" at 100 yrds with factory.
Hmm shot 5 low casties ..not good.
played around with some .410 loads been playing with in the other barrell.

Had a real hard look when I got 'er home.
Stuck me thumb nail into the shim I had put on and it sprung out

Taken me a few days to figure this out.(takes that sometimes).

I believe my issues started a while after I had decided to put some "acetone" in me ed's red.

I 've had scope base issues to.

Well live and learn I suppose.
As the plastic steel devcon or what ever I used come un stuck the force was taking up the gap and hammering it out. Springing away there.

When at normal lock up with a bit of grease on the hinge pin it seemed real tight.
Leading me to believe it was all and good.
After exposing it to X times K force

SO I think you all are right...and yes I'll have to break 'er back in for cast too when I'm done.


Question
How good is aluminium coke can for a shim???

I could when needed replace it easily with a keying the devcon etc and apply another layer of shim.

I read in the FAQ's about just using the plastic steel but wondered how it held up after time.

I'd try the soft low temp silver solder maybe but unsure of how the barrell and block are attached to each other.....meaning I don't wanna have issue of that come unstuck on me.

Thanks
and cheers
Barra.

[gcrank1]

Alum. is a soft metal (you know that) and will peen thinner with each blow (shot). The annealed 'feeler ga.) spring steel will hold up much better and be worth the trouble in the long run. The alum. is 'quick & dirty' and you can replace it almost anywhere.
You would have had these accuracy issues anyway, he just got you there a little quicker.

[Barrabruce]

Well I went and bought some plastic steel ..couldn't find any super good stuff.

Had trouble with the feeler guages as the side gap is not the same as the inner gap.

I ened up not annealing the steel but just bending it in when the goo started to set a bit and closed the action and let it sit to I thought it was set up but not permanent.

Gently opened the action and cleaned up any squeezed out goo. Re assembled and let sit for a day or so.

It lock up flush with the face of the breach if I close it hard now.

Fired a few low power cast  loads out of it to find POI.

At 100 yrds I got 3 touching and Paper patched loads went 4 1/2 " at 200yds.

Pretty good for me.

I got a bit of pop open if I don't close the breach firmly. I'm suspecting it could "break in" set back a bit yet.

Apart from the plastic steel stuff.

What is the way to really do it??

Mig a few spots of steel on it and then fit it then use that as a guide and fill the rest up or just put a decent layer and file away!!!

Silver solder low temp sounds good.
Or am I dealing with the block dropping off half way through the job if i don't do it right.

Well are they afixed with normal temp braze or something else.
I'd hate to do it wrong.

See how long it lasts.

At least I'm shooting again.

Thanks for all the help.
Much appreciated.
Bruce

[gcrank1]

Sounds like you are doing it 'right enough'! Dont try to make this job into more work than it has to be, or worse that it starts out to be.
As they used to say in the medical world,"Do no harm"; not a bad reflection going into gun work.
Now, if you keep those hotrod load shooters away from it you are set for a good long time.

[Barrabruce]

Thanks gcrank I don't think I'll let anyone contaminate my bore with those copper wrapped stuff in it again.

I will work up a medium -3/4 PP load for hunting and playing to around starter jacketed stuff and leave it be.

I would like to go long range sometime maybe out to 500 yrds which is my ultimate goal.

Iv'e played around the 300 yrd mark for quite a while.

Its getting something that don't go to pieces coming back through the transonic stage that has me beat at the moment.

Still working on it.
Its a modern SB1 action

Mines got a 302 bore and 3089 groove
It also has a bit of weatherby freebore in it or they must of made super long necked 30-30 cases at one stage.
So I doubt that I could get woopdeedoo velocities out of it anyway with jacketed stuff.

Chers
Barra

[gcrank1]

One of the schuetzen shooters and gunsmith (maybe Wayne Schwartz?) found the standard 30-30 reamers tended to make 'long' chambers. IIRC he  made brass from 38-55 and trimmed to a few thou' shy of a full chamber length and improved his accuracy with lead bullets.