Author Topic: OK, I don't get it. Please explain. (Read 4800 times)

mannyrock · « **on:** July 21, 2011, 05:54:43 AM »

Dear Guys,

For the past 5 years or so, I have been seeing on the news, and reading in articles, that the feral hog population is booming in the U.S., and considered a major problem in about 35 states, particularly in the south and the west. Over and over you see the interviews with farmers, complaining that the hogs are destroying their crops and that they just can't seem to get rid of them.

So if this is the case, then why are people paying big money to go to hog ranches and game reserves, to hunt hogs in a fenced in area, whether free range or not? Why aren't people going out just as they would in deer hunting, and hunt the farms, national forests and leased lands?

Hog hunting at these reserves and game farms isn't cheap. It appears that the fees generally range from $500 to $1,000 for a one or two day hunt and one hog.

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. Something just doesn't add up here. If wild hogs are so prolific, then states like Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas and Missouri should be overrun with them, and finding a place to hunt for cheap should be easy.

Regards, Mannyrock

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2011, 06:10:58 AM »

I think if you travel some want a place that will house , feed ya , clean the pig and process the meat. Also they can pick the hog and many times arrange to get it mounted there. Most places have a way to ride around and not walk so much .

BUGEYE · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2011, 06:29:26 AM »

A lot of the complaining farmers won't let hunters on their property, they want government to eliminate them. those that do allow hunters, in most cases, charge for it. those like myself just can't afford a pig hunt. supermarket pork is cheaper.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2011, 06:40:15 AM »

I have been once to Wilderness Lodge in Tn. Why ? because a good friend wanted to go. He had cancer , we hunted in feb he died in july. It was nice for him and to be honest it was a fun trip. Got to meet hunters from all over. Some had wives along .One was taking his son for a goat and a pig. One was trying a revolver. One guy was a bear hunting guide from Mn. and said he came down every year to get a couple hogs for the freezer.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2011, 06:45:59 AM »

being disabled, If I had the loot, I would go to game farms because I would have someone to do the heavy work and I could still hunt.

no guns here · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2011, 06:53:29 AM »

two million hogs in texas alone... farmers/ranchers whine to high heaven about the damage they are doing. Eating crops, damaging fence, killing other animals etc. Then they want you to PAY to kill of the the hogs. I can see deer as a cash crop. Normally they don't do too much extra damage. I can't see folks being forced to PAY to kill nuisance animals that are killing off your profits. Seems like you'd almost pay them to come out and kill them... I say tough crap... they must not be that bad or you wouldn't be treating them like a cash crop. Who knows maybe there is enough money in people paying to hunt hogs that they can afford to raise crops just to support them. Probably they get to write off the damage and loss on taxes and then get some subsidy back from Uncle Sam.

NGH

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2011, 07:05:12 AM »

Farmers realize they can make more leasing land to hunters , Membership in the dove club I hunted with had gone up to $300.00 per season . They hunt 2 fields 2 days a week. Duck blinds are $2000.00 up and deer is $6.50 to $14.00 per acre here.

His lordship. · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2011, 07:47:41 AM »

I know what you mean, eventually I will make an effort to go out and contact landowners about removing some pigs, keeping a small one for eating. If I run into a wall and they want money, then I will know it is an advertising ploy to charge people for a recreational activity.

When I lived in the upper midwest, I had read of the damage caused by prairie dogs, yet it is primarily a cash activity from what I have heard. They want people to pay to remove their supposed pests. I no longer want to shoot prairie dogs, they are part of the eco-system and they are not bothering me.
Perhaps the pigs are too?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2011, 07:53:40 AM »

Paying to hunt is still less than paying taxes on large tracks of land. I see little difference than me charging to use my tools to do work for someone. If they had the tools they would not call me.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2011, 07:56:40 AM »

the pig crisis

or any crisis....is promoted to spend tax dollars

that is why you can't just go shoot them
same with the python crisis is south florida

in florida all you need is permision from the land owner
no lisence, no limit/size or number,no residency

compare this to the broke stae of californias approach
and the fact you cant use lead
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/keepmewild/pig.html

mannyrock · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2011, 09:11:04 AM »

Until just 4 years ago, I had a 40 acre farm in West Tennessee, in Fayette County. This is one of the most rural counties in all of Tennessee, and the number one activity was planting soybeans, corn and cotton. Hundred acre fields are not uncommon. Swamps and large tracts of hardwood timber abound. Deer and wild turkey are everywhere.

On the back of my place was a 300 acre farm, on the left an 80 acre place, on the right a 120 acre place, and across the street (little country road) was 1,200 acres in one huge wooded tract.

It was not hard to kill 5 to 10 deer a year on my 40 acres, and we didn't even hunt that hard.

And do you want to know how many wild or feral hogs there were out there? ZERO. In 14 years of living there, I never saw a print and never saw a hog, and neither did any of my neighbors. Now my place was perfect hog terrain, and most of the Mid-South states are as well. So, where are all of these wild hogs? Nowhere.

I honestly believe that there is only a true problem in some isolated pockets in central California, Florida, and Texas. Everywhere else you hear this story, on the local news especially, I believe that it is hugely overblown, and probably farmers or towns trying to get people to come out and pay to hunt.

I remember seeing a report one night on CNN, about a "farmer" in Georgia who claimed he had a huge hog problem and that his place was overrun with them. As proof, he had the reporter come out and film them. There they were, a big group of all black hogs, out in the middle of a big grass field, eating underneath a large game feeder! He also talked about routinely seeing 600 to 800 pound hogs.

Clearly, he was raising these hogs, on very high grade feed, and letting them run around his property, so he could charge hunters to shoot them. (I noticed that he didn't have any crops planted in the fields, only pigs.)

Just my thoughts.

Mannyrock

BUGEYE · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:52:10 AM »

I've roamed the woods for many years and only seen 1 pig. he was skinny as a rail and his snout was as long as his body. I almost shot him because he was so ugly.

chevy · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2011, 03:27:35 PM »

You basing that whole theory off 40 acres in Tennessee or the fact people aren't lining up to let you hunt their property?

Here is my opinion on it! Between my grandfather and my uncles, we own and farm a lot of land in Mississippi. There is a HUGE problem with hogs down here IN CERTAIN AREAS!!! We actually had to replant about 60 acres of corn this year as the hogs went down the rows and rooted up the freshly planted seed! I haven't talked to my uncles about what they had to replant but they are generally more affected by hogs than we are. We don't have near the problem some around us do with them though albeit it's still a problem! I know a few farmers who are paying 1,000.00 an hour for helicopters to shoot pigs on their places. I know guys who have bought dozens of traps, night vision equipment etc to combat the hog problem you are insinuating we don't have. I also know a few who are offering commercial hog hunts to offset costs of managing the hogs but most of them already had lodges and deer/duck hunts for sale.

When the water came up and flushed the hogs from their normal places, I know of about 400 being killed as the water was rising by just a few people! There were notices put out that if you could safely shoot them on private property, to take advantage of the rising water! I know of a few levee board folks who shot 20-30 on a 16 mile stretch of levee during the high water. Thats all we needed during a record setting flood is hogs rooting up softened levees haha!

The reason people don't offer strangers free reign of their property is simple. Too much liability! At least that is how it is for us! My family has worked way too hard for some jackwagon to shoot someone else out there hunting and then try to sue us for their negligence. I do think the problems are localized to an extent but I assure you they are spreading! With that I mean, you can have one property ate up with hogs and the next farm isn't but two farms over is type thing! If you are interested in shooting hogs, there are several WMA's (wildlife management areas) down here that have plenty of them and will cost you the cost of your permit or any application fees for draws.

I realize this post may come off as kind of harsh but I disagree 100% that there is not a hog problem in the south. In my job I have met with a ton of farmers for other projects and seen land affected by hogs all through out the Mississippi Delta. It is most certainly a problem and to be quite honest it irks me to see people thinking that it isn't.

Just my thoughts!

45-70.gov · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:24:22 PM »

Quote from: chevy on July 21, 2011, 03:27:35 PM

The reason people don't offer strangers free reign of their property is simple. Too much liability! At least that is how it is for us! My family has worked way too hard for some jackwagon to shoot someone else out there hunting and then try to sue us for their negligence.

If you are interested in shooting hogs, there are several WMA's (wildlife management areas) down here that have plenty of them and will cost you the cost of your permit or any application fees for draws.

Just my thoughts!

well you just pointed out more of what i have said
more government involment adding to the problem

chevy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2011, 08:17:23 PM »

I can't say I am following you 45-70? Care to elaborate a little?

mechanic · « **Reply #15 on:** July 22, 2011, 02:09:33 AM »

Georgia has passed a law limiting landowner's liability for hunter's that use their land. In essence, a landowner would almost have to shoot you himself to be held liable. This has not changed the availability of land at all. Most people with large tracts of land also have very large tax bills nowadays. I suspect this has more locally to do with the situation than anything else.

As far as hogs go, they are spreading rapidly. I've even spotted a few in the industrial park here in LaGrange, but I have yet to see one in the woods locally.

Go south 40 miles and they are a major issue.

Ft. Benning has been paying a bounty for pig's tails, and they still are overrunning the place.

Ben

mannyrock · « **Reply #16 on:** July 22, 2011, 05:32:51 AM »

Chevy,

Good to hear from you. I was speaking from my own experience, hunting for 30 years in West Tennessee and Mississippi . I hunted extensively throughout north Mississippi, as well as a few locations in central Mississippi (in and around Vaiden). Again, I never saw any hogs there.

But, I certainly don't doubt your word in any respect. If there are hogs in and around your farming area, I hope you can get the problem handled.

One factor I thought about is the density of coyotes. West Tennessee and northern Mississippi have lots of coyotes. Their numbers are so large that they travel in packs, and run around all night with their yipping calls, on the trail of game. (Three coyotes were found living in downtown Memphis, underneath old wooden houses. Not coy-dogs, but real coyotes.)

It could be that large numbers of coyotes result in lots of piglets getting eaten, which prevents any wild pig population from really taking off.

Regards, Mannyrock

45-70.gov · « **Reply #17 on:** July 22, 2011, 06:13:16 AM »

Quote from: chevy on July 21, 2011, 08:17:23 PM

I can't say I am following you 45-70? Care to elaborate a little?

just pointing out the MANY

direct and indirect obstacles the government imposes

night hunting is seriously restricted
tho pigs are nocturnal

markc · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2011, 11:19:18 AM »

Coyotes are not much match for a few large feral sows. They don't do much to decrease the number of feral hogs around my part of Texas. For those who hunt during legal "daylight" deer hunting hours, you may see few, if any feral hogs, since they are more active after sunset.

On my local lease, we rarely see hogs during the day, yet I have trapped as many as 60 in just a few months using a large round trap with a corn feeder inside. My biggest single catch was 22 hogs including 3 fair size sows and their little ones.

The problem with hogs is very real here in Texas. As for other states I can not say, but hope that you do not experience the hog problem that we have here. Not too long ago on the news was an overturned, burning pickup truck. The driver had hit a feral hog, estimated at 300#. Many of the newer high dollar neighborhoods south of Houston are experiencing feral hog damage to their lawns and flowerbeds.

Hunting regulations on hogs is pretty liberal in Tx, hunt at night, use lights, feeders, dogs, traps etc.. just kill as many as possible is the preferred behavior.

I can't see folks being forced to PAY to kill nuisance animals that are killing off your profits.

Hey no guns here, no one forces anyone to pay to hunt. They provide a hunt for those who pay, but no one is forced to do anything. Anyway, where are you located in the country? Send me a PM. If you are close enouge, maybe we can arrange for you to come out and look for pigs on my place. No charge, but no guarantee that there will be any pigs ether. The drought has moved them away to wetter acres for a while now.

chevy · « **Reply #19 on:** July 22, 2011, 04:20:12 PM »

Quote from: mannyrock on July 22, 2011, 05:32:51 AM

Chevy,

Good to hear from you. I was speaking from my own experience, hunting for 30 years in West Tennessee and Mississippi . I hunted extensively throughout north Mississippi, as well as a few locations in central Mississippi (in and around Vaiden). Again, I never saw any hogs there.

But, I certainly don't doubt your word in any respect. If there are hogs in and around your farming area, I hope you can get the problem handled.

One factor I thought about is the density of coyotes. West Tennessee and northern Mississippi have lots of coyotes. Their numbers are so large that they travel in packs, and run around all night with their yipping calls, on the trail of game. (Three coyotes were found living in downtown Memphis, underneath old wooden houses. Not coy-dogs, but real coyotes.)

It could be that large numbers of coyotes result in lots of piglets getting eaten, which prevents any wild pig population from really taking off.

Regards, Mannyrock

I am going to contact MSU's extension service and see about getting some information from them. I know they have done a bunch of feral hog research! We had them coming down to my uncles shooting them at night, trapping them, etc. They trapped and radio collared a few on a friend of mines farm too. I know there are certain counties much more affected than others! Most of those counties are in the Central to Southern Delta and along the MS River. I have not heard of much land being torn up in North Mississippi but that is mostly pine thickets and pasture land as opposed to the row crop land in the Delta haha! I lived in North MS (Oxford) for three years in college and then moved back to the Delta when I graduated. I never saw any hogs in my tenure up north! I hunted my Uncle's farm at Water Valley a good bit and to this day, I don't think he has seen or killed any up there. I saw some hogs in Grenada county last December, actually in the City Limits! My point is, they are definitely localized but definitely a problem in the places that have them! They are an oversized armadillo for the most part!

I consider them terrorist and have a kill on sight policy! Always have a rifle in my truck and I will not lie, i've swerved to hit them before!

I re-read my post and it sounded a bit more "gung-ho" than I intended and I apologize for that. I wasn't trying to come off as rude.

myronman3 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 23, 2011, 08:01:14 AM »

it is all a promotional ploy to get people revved up to go pig hunting....like everything else, it is all about the money. and a joke. if it were really as bad as they make it out to be, they would be begging for folks to come and kill them.

BBF · « **Reply #21 on:** July 23, 2011, 11:35:06 AM »

I've been saying and thinking that for several years.

mannyrock · « **Reply #22 on:** July 24, 2011, 04:48:07 AM »

Chevy,

No problem regarding your prior posts. I tend to state things in black and white (to get people interested and talking), whereas most things are actually gray.

You are right about north Mississippi. Once you get 15 miles east of the River, it is largely pastures and pine thicket. I think the area was logged out and highly eroded in the 1920s, so those lob-lolly pines were planted throughout the region during the WPA years. Pine thicket is probably not good hog country at all, compared to row crops and hardwood forests.

The very northern border of Mississippi, in and around Mt. Pleasant, lines up with the Wolf River drainage (swamp) that runs all of the way from LaGrange, Tennessee, to Memphis, and is very very heavy with hardwoods, with lots of acorns. So this may be much better hog land.

One problem with hogs is that there is probably no way that the State could offer a bounty on them. Too many people would be poaching domestic pigs, just to get a small cash payment.

Regards, Mannyrock

BUGEYE · « **Reply #23 on:** July 24, 2011, 05:06:33 AM »

mannyrock, off topic, one of the most beautiful farms I ever saw was a few miles north of New Albany. small hills of pasture and oaks and hickory that looked 200 years old. abundant wild game.

swordfish · « **Reply #24 on:** July 25, 2011, 09:49:52 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on July 21, 2011, 05:54:43 AM

Dear Guys,

For the past 5 years or so, I have been seeing on the news, and reading in articles, that the feral hog population is booming in the U.S., and considered a major problem in about 35 states, particularly in the south and the west. Over and over you see the interviews with farmers, complaining that the hogs are destroying their crops and that they just can't seem to get rid of them.

So if this is the case............ Why aren't people going out just as they would in deer hunting, national forests?

Regards, Mannyrock

We do here in FL. All the Management areas that I go to have plenty of hogs. Just have to put in your time to find where they are, but they are there for the taking.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #25 on:** July 25, 2011, 01:40:22 PM »

As a FL Land Owner of a small parcel (20 acres) that has historically been over run with hogs from the 50,000-plus acres of State owned river bottom and uplands surrounding me, I have invited several GBO Members to hunt my land for free. It is not by any means an Open Door Policy and is By Invitation Only.

As I have personally experienced (enough now to know better), the Privilege to hunt my land has been taken for granted (by Others, by locals, not by GBO Members, and to be clear, not by everyone) and my good nature abused by those I would have otherwise and gladly called "Friend" and now call "Poacher". If you don't call me in advance to coordinate (every time) even though you have been given the gate key, and you "inadvertently" walk up on me unannounced while I am guiding another on their free hunt, you are going to see a side of me that I don't like to unleash and you will certainly muddy the water for everyone that comes after you to ask for permission. I get the key back and you get the boot - not to return. Common courtesy says you know the rules. You get the rules from me when you get the key. You best abide by the Land Owner's rules or forget the privilege. Otherwise, you get the key and unfettered use so long as I have not already scheduled something for myself. Know what I mean? I am not going to be there 24/7/365. Somebody ought to be in there hunting those pigs and I do my fair share.

I bought the land (big $$'s), paid the mortgage (bigger $$'s), own it outright now, fight off the Tax Man every year by paying the Trolls, maintain and establish the hunting stands, establish and maintain the corn feeder(s), maintain the land for wildlife by food plots specifically for deer, which the hogs love to uproot, attempt to keep Poachers from stealing the Trail Cameras and infesting the adjacent woods, and enjoy your company as my Guest.

For 15-consecutive months the hogs have been eerily silent on my land and the adjoining State land (partly due to 550 hogs professionally trapped on the State side over 12 months in 2009-2010). I have an extended list of Guests from GBO when the hogs return. And, as we already know, they will return. There is no End of Line when it come to hogs.

mechanic · « **Reply #26 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:44:04 PM »

Land Owner, you bring up a pet peeve of mine. For 15 years, I had exclusive right to hunt a 1000 acre farm. Much of it was planted each year, and the crop was the farmer's livelihood. Some of it was pasture, where he kept cows...more of his livelihood. Only about 250 acres was wooded. The deal was, I could hunt, and if I wanted, bring someone else. In return, I used HIS tractor to bushhog the lake which I got to fish, helped watch the fences, which I sometimes repaired, and because I'm a mechanic, I kept his tractors serviced. A small price to pay for so large a tract.

I made one mistake, I allowed someone to go with me, and in their mind, that was a permanent invitation. They drove a pickup truck right through the middle of a wheat field the day before the combine showed up. End result, I lost my hunting priviledge.

I now have a small 34 acre tract a friend has asked me to hunt, and to help him keep the road cleared.

I will tell no one where it is, and if I see anyone on it, he better have written permission or he gets escorted off by the sheriff.

People have no scruples nowadays. It ruins it for everyone.

Ben

45-70.gov · « **Reply #27 on:** July 25, 2011, 05:48:44 PM »

Land_Owner

sounds like reasonable rules to me
some times people take advantage of some ones good nature

you are now the FIRST and few to be invited to hunt my new land
[if i haven't chased every thing off already]

many of the locals have told me there is some of the best fishing around
if i can get a trail cut to the river

i don't tink i would need to tell you the rules
i don't think you would consider going there with out letting me know

BTW is that where the deer went??

Land_Owner · « **Reply #28 on:** July 26, 2011, 02:21:02 AM »

45-70.gov

If it isn't "solid trees" in there, I have no problem bringing the tractor and bush hog with me to cut a trail. Let the Big Dog eat. It has to be reasonably dry though. For some reason, two-wheeled drive and 4,000 pounds of cast iron and steel over wet mud and it will get stuck. And, yes I think the deer went west to the river, went north to the new growth after the fire, went south to the lake, and went east to the creek. They sure exited my land - and have stayed away for months and months.

mechanic

That is a tough situation for you. How long has it been since your guest caused the problem? Maybe a visit to the land owner, after a "reasonable time has past" would foster a renewed trust. He never had a concern about you, just your one guest. When someone ruins it for everyone, it is a tough pill to swallow. A "good thing" is difficult enough to come by. Then some thoughtless individual screws it up because they don't have the same underlying care and attention as you. How do you know that before they screw it up? You don't. I can attest to the land owner's concern, but maybe he can forgive you for the act of the other and give you a Do Over. Couldn't hurt (too much more) to try. [LATE NOTE: "Sell it" on the fact that he got A LOT from you for the privilege and that you were and always are glad to do it. I know I would appreciate all that you do for the small price of the privilege to hunt.]

BUGEYE · « **Reply #29 on:** July 26, 2011, 02:55:41 AM »

Ben, sadly that's the case everywhere.