Oslo shootings

[yellowtail3]

All I know is what I read online & in the papers. I read somewhere that the Amish as a group were responsible, but I don't believe it, any more than I'd believe it was the responsibility of the Sufis or Jesuits.

[Casull]

you don't have to post....your cyber presence is acknowledged and preceeds your posts

 
tm, I did not realize that I was that impressive.  Still, I do not like to take credit, or blame, for what I have NOT written.
 
 

You're pretty free about calling people liers...aren't you..?

 
When it fits, most certainly. 

[BUGEYE]

Everytime I see a mass shooting like this I wonder,"how many lives could have been saved if just one competent adult had been armed and fought back?"

there could be lives saved every day if people would carry and not be afraid to use it.

[Casull]

Yes, for certain you're a legend in your own mind....

 
And, apparently yours, since you wrote it.   

[us920669]

Muslims are probably starting to turn up there too, and I've read many times that those Scandinavian countries aren't very welcoming to people who look different.  Some far-left black guy wrote once that he encountered more discrimination in left-wing Sweden than in the US.

[yellowtail3]

It isn't true that all terrorism is Muslim, nor is it true that anything Israel does is beyond reproach.  Still Muslim terrorist are real threat to the world and not some innocent victim of a giant global conspiracy.  Republicans aren't always right, and true Christians can still be Democrats.  But yet not all Democrats are honest, hard working, god fearing, everymen (and women).  The simplicity of grand brush strokes is obviously appealing, especially to those who lack the intellectual capacity to make critical judgements, but it also leads to being wrong.  My point was, if you want to be right more than you want to be consistent, you have to evaluate every person, stituation, and argument based on it's own merit, and not through the prism of your pre-concieved ideology.

 All true. How many here agree with this?
 

[Casull]

Well, ok, I agree.   

[Lost Farmboy]

  This will be used by those negotiating the UN small arms treaty to disarm people world wide including Americans. The people setting up the world government had an intelligence agency recruit the stupid patsy. The stupid patsy does not understand what happened to him or he would not have been allowed to live. Look for more of these attacks as the treaty moves forward. This looks a lot like Timothy McVeigh.

[Matt]

IG brought up that those responsible in 1993 for the WTC bombings are the same responsible for the 2001 attacks as well.
I am curious as to how many others feel the same way?


Matt

[crustylicious]

In support of his claim that Saudi Arabia supported terrorism, Khilewi spoke of an episode relevant to the first, 1993, attempt to bring down the World Trade Center’s Twin Towers. “A Saudi citizen carrying a Saudi diplomatic passport,” he said, “gave money to Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind behind the World Trade Center bombing,” when the al-Qaeda terrorist was in the Philippines. The Saudi relationship with Yousef, the defector claimed, “is secret and goes through Saudi intelligence.”
The reference to a Saudi citizen having funded Yousef closely fit the part played by Osama bin Laden’s brother-in-law Jamal Khalifa. He was active in the Philippines, fronted as a charity organizer at the relevant time, and founded a charity that gave money to Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the chief al-Qaeda planner of 9/11, during the initial plotting to destroy U.S. airliners.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/08/9-11-2011-201108

[powderman]

MATT. Not sure exactly what you mean but if you mean were muslims responsible for both attacks, my answer would be YES. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

Matt, we have no friends in the middle east except Israel.  when we send oil money to the saudis we are indirectly funding terrorism against ourselves.  yes they're tied together.

[ironglow]

   From Dukkillr;
  "It isn't true that all terrorism is Muslim, nor is it true that anything Israel does is beyond reproach.  Still Muslim terrorist are real threat to the world and not some innocent victim of a giant global conspiracy.  Republicans aren't always right, and true Christians can still be Democrats.  But yet not all Democrats are honest, hard working, god fearing, everymen (and women).  The simplicity of grand brush strokes is obviously appealing, especially to those who lack the intellectual capacity to make critical judgements, but it also leads to being wrong.  My point was, if you want to be right more than you want to be consistent, you have to evaluate every person, stituation, and argument based on it's own merit, and not through the prism of your pre-concieved ideology"
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Dukkilr said it well...and concisely..
oooooooooo
  The real tragedy here is that Norway, indeed all Scandanavian countries are notoriously soft on criminals.  In an earlier post I facetiously suggested that he be "given the noose"...knowing full well he won't even face capital punishment.  If he gets 30 years, I'd be surprised..
  All of western Europe has bought themselves a similar problem..

[Pot-Bellied Stallion]

According to all the news that I've heard and read, he could get up to 21 years.  There is a court hearing Monday to determine if the police have the right to hold him over for trial.  That's a pretty sweet deal for a person who has just, admittedly, killed 92 people.  Even if he gets those 21 years in prison, he'll still be a relatively young person when he gets out.  Those young people he killed will still be dead.

[yellowtail3]

IG brought up that those responsible in 1993 for the WTC bombings are the same responsible for the 2001 attacks as well.
I am curious as to how many others feel the same way?

That the FBI played the 1993 muzzies and supplied real explosives and real detonators is undeniable and a matter of record; and in connection with key provacateur mentioned by Crusty..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Farmboy.....Agreed .... plus alot more.....TM7

WOW - I did not know that. Our FBI supplied the tools to those who bomb the WTC? Are you serious, TM7?

[ironglow]

In support of his claim that Saudi Arabia supported terrorism, Khilewi spoke of an episode relevant to the first, 1993, attempt to bring down the World Trade Center’s Twin Towers. “A Saudi citizen carrying a Saudi diplomatic passport,” he said, “gave money to Ramzi Yousef, the mastermind behind the World Trade Center bombing,” when the al-Qaeda terrorist was in the Philippines. The Saudi relationship with Yousef, the defector claimed, “is secret and goes through Saudi intelligence.”
The reference to a Saudi citizen having funded Yousef closely fit the part played by Osama bin Laden’s brother-in-law Jamal Khalifa. He was active in the Philippines, fronted as a charity organizer at the relevant time, and founded a charity that gave money to Yousef and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the chief al-Qaeda planner of 9/11, during the initial plotting to destroy U.S. airliners.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2011/08/9-11-2011-201108
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
   Crusty;
   Just in case you are puzzled; I never inferred that that the murderers of 9/11 weren't assisted by a foreign government.  In fact, they had to be facilitated by at least 2 or 3..such as Iraq, Iran, Syria and likely Saudi Arabia.  Surely, those 19 killers were not acting alone.  That has become painfully clear over the last year.
   That is also not to say our own leadership has not done some very stupid, PC moves..such as not identifying the true enemy.
 
   We can accept (with reservations), the historically responsible and proven information sources.. or be left somewhere in nebula-land.
  If we are to decide somewhere in our own mind, such things as:
 
  A)  Pearl Harbor was not attacked by the Japanese Navy.
 
  B)  American astronaughts did not land on the moon. 
 
  C) The CIA introduced AIDS into the blaxck population
 
 D) The US actually destroyed it's own trade center, and attempted to destroy the Pentagon and the capitol building.
 
     ...Then where do we go for information ?  We as individuals were not witnesses to to these events, we were not in the smoky backrooms while the planning was going on, we do not have access to top or crypto secret papers.  Thus, if we want information we have to go to other sources..which are
 
 A) Traditional sources (with reservations)
 
 B) Opinion driven blogs, conspiracy theorists..or the various screeds of our actual enemies.
 
   Although all of us are at one time or another, inclined to seek out those sources with which we are most comfortable...we must be cautious that we do not sink into a mire where we are completely enmesched in an "anti-establishment" mode..
  That in itself can cause delusion (IMO).

[yellowtail3]

From what I'm reading the news this morning, it sounds like the Norway killer - who was not Amish, or a Muslim - was a Christian, a right-winger, and that he hated Muslims.
http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-norway-suspect-wanted-anti-muslim-crusade-115344430.html
From the above linked AP article, the writings of the killer:

"We, the free indigenous peoples of Europe, hereby declare a pre-emptive war on all cultural Marxist/multiculturalist elites of Western Europe. ... We know who you are, where you live and we are coming for you," the document said. "We are in the process of flagging every single multculturalist traitor in Western Europe. You will be punished for your treasonous acts against Europe and Europeans."

Wow. I wonder if he considered them godless, too, and therefore unworthy of any kind of Christian consideration. Hatred is a corrosive and evil thing, even when thought justified.

I hope it doesn't come back that this guy was a Christian; I like to think that Christians don't think like that, but I know some do. Terrible witness, that will be exploited by enemies of the cross.

[gypsyman]

I heard on the news that Norway has no death penalty. And, prison time is usually limited to 20 to 31 years in extreme crimes. Wonder how their going to handle this in liberal land?? gypsyman

[Conan The Librarian]

Chalk up another one for the Islamic terrorists. This is indirectly related because it was backlash against Islmisation.

It seems that muslims are demographically small in number, and I'll use Sweden as an example because I'm more familiar with it. But there are a lot of publicized problems. There are many news items to the effect of "gang of muslims rapes Swedish girl" and "you endanger yourself to attack by muslims if you enter a particular neighborhood". The kook in Norway may be part of a backlash against that.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/938

http://www.euro-islam.info/2010/02/24/islam-in-sweden/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1PM6YB8wg

[BUGEYE]

but why did he choose children.  why not a muslim neighborhood?  those kids were leftists but they certainly didn't deserve to die.
saw on the news last night that this guy is gaining a following.  that's sick.

[yellowtail3]

Any news on the motivations of the perp in Norway?

From what I'm reading the news this morning, it sounds like the Norway killer is a Christian, a right-winger, and that he hates Muslims.
http://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-norway-suspect-wanted-anti-muslim-crusade-115344430.html
From the above linked AP article, the writings of the killer:

"We, the free indigenous peoples of Europe, hereby declare a pre-emptive war on all cultural Marxist/multiculturalist elites of Western Europe. ... We know who you are, where you live and we are coming for you," the document said. "We are in the process of flagging every single multculturalist traitor in Western Europe. You will be punished for your treasonous acts against Europe and Europeans."

I hope it doesn't come back that this guy really is a Christian; I like to think that fellow believers don't think like that, and certainly won't act on it, but I know some do. Terrible witness, that will be exploited by enemies of the cross.

[Casull]

 

I would NOT be surprised if some of the super-Christian, far-right wing members here were stockpiling fertilizer.

     That's ok, since the far-left wing members are spreading a lot of fertilizer here.

[mauser98us]

When something like this happens and the perp is white ,the first thing media does is try to link to right wing,christian,militia etc. They did this in Tucson at the shootings. Come to find out, Laughner tended to lean to the left. After this was found out and it did not fit the media agenda, it was dropped like a hot potato. Find it funny,the media always links Nazism to the right wing.In fact the Nazi movemment was socialist,which is always left of center or far left.

[Junior1942]

When something like this happens and the perp is white ,the first thing media does is try to link to right wing,christian,militia etc. They did this in Tucson at the shootings. Come to find out, Laughner tended to lean to the left. After this was found out and it did not fit the media agenda, it was dropped like a hot potato. Find it funny,the media always links Nazism to the right wing.In fact the Nazi movemment was socialist,which is always left of center or far left.

No need to "try" and link this guy to Christian right fanatics.  He's certified.

[BUGEYE]

junior, why do you hate Christians so much?  tell the truth.

[nomosendero]

When something like this happens and the perp is white ,the first thing media does is try to link to right wing,christian,militia etc. They did this in Tucson at the shootings. Come to find out, Laughner tended to lean to the left. After this was found out and it did not fit the media agenda, it was dropped like a hot potato. Find it funny,the media always links Nazism to the right wing.In fact the Nazi movemment was socialist,which is always left of center or far left.

Yes, that is correct, the Nazi called themselves Socialists.
 
It appears some on the forum want to make that Christian link, as Duk mentioned before
& a no-brainer that this would happen here.

[Junior1942]

junior, why do you hate Christians so much?  tell the truth.

I don't hate or even dislike Christians at all.  I hate people who want a theocracy for the USA.

[jlwilliams]

  This had more to do with mental illness than it had to do with ideology. 
 
  If the most he can get is 21 years, there will be plenty of grown adults around then who were there or lost a brother/sister/ friend.  I'm sure he'll find no open arms welcoming him when he steps out of the penetentiary.  Maybe a few tight fists, but no open arms.

[BBF]

Everytime I see a mass shooting like this I wonder,"how many lives could have been saved if just one competent adult had been armed and fought back?"

Even an Archer keeping his cool could have plugged this guy.

[BBF]

Everytime I see a mass shooting like this I wonder,"how many lives could have been saved if just one competent adult had been armed and fought back?"

there could be lives saved every day if people would carry and not be afraid to use it.

That concept is so alien to Europeans it might as well have come from a different planet.