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Author Topic: Brass SNAFU  (Read 974 times)

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Offline GH1

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Brass SNAFU
« on: July 24, 2011, 12:56:19 PM »
  Today I went to a gun show where I picked up 50 pieces of primed Hornady brass for $18.00. Great deal, or so I thought. When I got home I discovered I'd bought LeverEvolution brass and it's about .070" shorter than standard max length.
  So I sent an e-mail off to Accurate to get load info, and I have no douBt I'll be able to use it with the proper charge adjustments.  I just thought I'd pass my story along so maybe someone else won't make the same mistake.
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Offline gr8ful

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 02:00:19 PM »
if you are loading for a single shot rifle you can just use regular 45-70 dies and data, you just cant crimp. 
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Offline Bullseye

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 03:12:51 PM »
Where was 45-70 ever mentioned in the original post?
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2011, 03:34:58 PM »
It wasn't but it would be a good guess that is what he is talking about because the lever evolution for 45-70 is shoprter than normal brass.
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2011, 03:39:04 PM »
Good guess Billy, I was talking about the .45-70.  I figured I'd be able to use the same dies, how come I can't crimp? I'm loading for a Handi.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 03:44:06 PM »
Shooting them out of a handi there should be no need to crimp.
 
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 04:03:12 PM »
That may be, but I'd still like to know why I can't crimp. Can you offer a little insight, please?
GH1 :)
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 04:05:06 PM »
It can't be crimped because the brass being shorter never reaches the crimping part of the die.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 04:08:11 PM »
Load them to normal OAL and don't worry about the crimp.
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 04:09:10 PM »
CRAP! So it looks like I bought a bunch of useless brass. What about the guys that reload LE using FTX bullets for their leverguns, do they buy a factory crimp die or something?
GH1 :)
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2011, 04:12:00 PM »
I'm not sure about that GH1.
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 04:15:28 PM »
Hmmm, I think this calls for a little investigative work. I know anything used in a tube magazine needs a pretty hearty crimp. I'll be sure to report what I find in the next couple of days. Thanks for the info.
GH1 :)
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Offline gr8ful

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 05:46:41 PM »
I made the same mistake with the 45-70 brass that is why I guessed 45-70.  You can buy a special crimping die or have .100 turned off the  end of a crimping die to allow the brass to reach the crimp ring of a regular die, but since you are loading for a single shot rifle a crimp is not needed.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2011, 06:34:18 PM »
Quote
I'm loading for a Handi

Again, in a single shot, you don't need to crimp.
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2011, 03:02:47 PM »
I talked to a tech rep from Hornady today and was told their dies will work on the shortened cases. However, my dies are from RCBS and they don't work. I tried to load a dummy round and put a crimp on it to no avail.
So now I need to decide if I want to run without a crimp or buy another die. Decisions, decisions.
GH1 :) 
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 05:48:26 AM »
 I decided to go with a Lee factory crimp die. According to their website trim length isn't a factor in it's operation and after having seen the illustrations on their website I understand why.
 I know many people don't crimp with a single shot but I'm just not comfortable with that. I like a good crimp.
 I also eard back from staff ballistician Johan Loubser at Acurate powders. Acording to him, .070" shorter isn't enough to affect the recommended powder charges using 5744. Probably because the case is so massive and it's a relatively low pressure powder.
So I'll be good to go as soon as I get my gun back.
Thanks for all the replies everyone.
GH1 :)
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2011, 01:25:19 PM »
I don't think a LEE FCD will work. It is a simple collet which crimps the end of the case. I think what they mean about the length Is as long as it is within min/max tolerance it will handle it.
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Offline gr8ful

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 01:45:29 PM »
Lee FCD won't work unless you turn .070 off the mouth of the collett, or the brass will not reach the crimp ring, the hornady dies are .070 shorter than normal dies and are adjusted differently.
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Offline fastchicken

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2011, 02:35:23 PM »
I think the Lee factory crimp will work, I think there is enough adjustment to still get a good crimp in your short cases. If not, the die isn't all that much and now you have one for regular cases. I like crimping my 30-30 in a separate step and don't use the seating die.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2011, 03:14:34 PM »
There reeally is no ajustment of the LEE FCD. You can bring it down slightly farther to give a firmer crimp, but I just looked at mine and there is NO WAY it will crimp that short of cases unless you shorted the die  .070.
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 03:30:17 PM »
Well, it looks like I'll be shortening the die then.
GH1 :)
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Offline gr8ful

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2011, 06:58:09 PM »
Any machine shop can do it for you for a few bucks, if he is a shooter maybe even free.  I would shorten my seating die though, then you can use it with hornady brass and normal brass.  Good shooting!
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2011, 08:45:05 AM »
The problem with that is the seating die doesn't belong to me, it belongs to a buddy that I load for. Not a big deal because the factory crimp die was cheap. I shouldn't have a problem shortening it.
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2011, 02:23:02 PM »
My factory crimp die arrived today and it wouldn't crimp the short cases, so it looks like I'll be doing a little bit of machine work tomorrow. It shouldn't be too big of a deal.
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Offline GH1

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2011, 04:58:07 PM »
 I shortened my Lee Factory Crimp die about .150" and it seened to work OK on the 150 gr Collar button bullet I tried it with. Unfortunately those bullets don't have a crimp groove so it's a little hard to tell. I'll have to try it when my 405's from Missouri Bullet come in. I think it's going to work, I'll be sure to post my results.
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Brass SNAFU
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2011, 05:50:05 AM »
THe LEE FCD does not care if there is a crimp groove, It will push the case into the bullet if you ajust it to.
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