Author Topic: Tax cuts vs the economy  (Read 7197 times)

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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 05:01:22 AM »
Wow. Sobering article by a Republican.

Sometimes I think the Bush tax cuts were meant to preserver wealth for The Right People before it all comes tumbling down.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline us920669

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2011, 05:40:09 AM »
Sorry, I don't buy it.  My favorite economist, Murray Rothbard, calls all taxes government depredations, meaning they take money out of the economy so politicians can spend it on whatever they want.  Right now the O Team is trying to rig a network of high-speed "bullet" trains all over the country.  They make no economic sense and will require government subsidies for ever.


"Closing loopholes" is the same as a tax hike, and a tax on anyone is a tax on everyone, through higher costs and less opportunities.  If ending the "Bush tax cuts" was really so important, why didn't the democrats do it after '08, when they had the necessary majorities, or in '10, when all they had to do was nothing and the dreaded "tax cuts for the wealthy" would have ended naturally.



The heat is really on right now to pass some kind of budget deal, mainly to preserve our AAA credit rating, so that the government can borrow even more.  Many moderate republicans, the only kind the NYT will print, are so desperate about this that they will say almost anything.  I think they know that what we need right now is a big tax cut - for everyone. 

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2011, 06:07:55 AM »
Reagan= democrat congress
first Bush = democrats
clinton = Republican congress
next Bush = democrats
imam obama = started with democrats, Republicans now in house, senate still crippled with democrats
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 06:26:11 AM »
"Closing loopholes" is the same as a tax hike, and a tax on anyone is a tax on everyone, through higher costs and less opportunities.  If ending the "Bush tax cuts" was really so important, why didn't the democrats do it after '08, when they had the necessary majorities, or in '10, when all they had to do was nothing and the dreaded "tax cuts for the wealthy" would have ended naturally.


Everyone.  A loop hole is any exemption.  All part of the social engineering that congress does.  Do this and we will not steal as much money from you.  The private plane loophole the President is yelling about was passed by the Democrats with out a single Republican vote. 
If we can go to a flat tax rate, basically what the Democrats want by closing the Loopholes it will end the need for most CPA's Tax companies like H&R Block (ect) and Tax Lawyers.  All major contributors to the Democrat party.  I mean after all if you amde X and you owe 12% of it it is not hard to do your taxes.  It will also help the economy by people doing what makes financial sence rather than doing it because it makes tax sence.

Offline lakota

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2011, 06:36:38 AM »
Some people just down right HATE the idea of others being able to keep more of what they earn. If higher taxes are the answer then lets start by asking for voluteers. Anyone here want to volunteer to pay higher taxes?
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2011, 07:38:18 AM »
Some people just down right HATE the idea of others being able to keep more of what they earn. If higher taxes are the answer then lets start by asking for voluteers. Anyone here want to volunteer to pay higher taxes?

not me... it's all going to rent, gas, food, and soon a divorce lawyer (I hate lawyers)

Okay, I admit: I'm going to spring for some new arrows & broadheads today at Dick's.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline us920669

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 08:49:49 AM »
Bow-hunting lawyers, are ya?

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 10:32:07 AM »
No, prep for deer season opening mid-Sept.

I'll not discuss killing lawyers - though if there was ever a class that deserved it, they might be it - as what I write is likely to be mined to things to use against me.

Rev Wright was right, in some regards.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Junior1942

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 11:00:52 AM »
Some people just down right HATE the idea of others being able to keep more of what they earn. If higher taxes are the answer then lets start by asking for voluteers. Anyone here want to volunteer to pay higher taxes?
No need to volunteer.  They'll either finally collect some income taxes from trillionaire oil producers or collect more income taxes from the middle class.  Since you don't want oil producers to pay any income tax, you must be one of those who like giving money to the government.  There's lots of them lately, all with an (R) behind their name.

Offline Casull

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2011, 11:15:08 AM »
Quote
Bingo...Ten Ring.  The real Wall St governmnet controls the 'ceremonial' governmet in DC...Ever look up 'banana republic' in wikipedia....its another heist of treasure, blood, and country.

 
tm, that gets a loud and emphatic BS!   Explain to me how letting someone keep MORE of their own money is a "heist".  Sheesh.
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline us920669

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 11:16:17 AM »
I wish I could help people understand that oil producers, and I don't think any are trillionaires, make their living by sucking dead dinosaurs out of the ground and turning them into a smelly juice we all desperately need.  When the dead dinosaurs give out, they have to pack up and go find more.  That's why it was called a depletion allowance.  If they can't get it, they will just charge us more for the smelly juice.  Kind of like being a middle aged guy trying to make a living as a sperm donor - nice work if you can get it, but you know you will be going out of business soon.

Offline Casull

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 11:17:45 AM »
Quote
you must be one of those who like giving money to the government.  There's lots of them lately, all with an (R) behind their name

 
junior, your above line doesn't make sense.  Ooops, that's redundant.  Please list those Republicans who want to give more money to the government, and those democraps who do not.  Oh, wait, you said they were "all" Republicans.   ::)
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 11:22:45 AM »
Kind of like being a middle aged guy trying to make a living as a sperm donor - nice work if you can get it, but you know you will be going out of business soon.

Speak for yourself, brother - I'm an optimist!
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2011, 11:23:00 AM »
They are all collectively responsible. One more so than the other? I'm sure the difference is quite small.  demican/republicrat, different trains, same destination. BOHICA America.

Offline lakota

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 11:31:19 AM »
Some people just down right HATE the idea of others being able to keep more of what they earn. If higher taxes are the answer then lets start by asking for voluteers. Anyone here want to volunteer to pay higher taxes?
No need to volunteer.  They'll either finally collect some income taxes from trillionaire oil producers or collect more income taxes from the middle class.  Since you don't want oil producers to pay any income tax, you must be one of those who like giving money to the government.  There's lots of them lately, all with an (R) behind their name.

More baloney. Do you own a deli?
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Offline Casull

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2011, 11:31:42 AM »
Quote
They are all collectively responsible. One more so than the other? I'm sure the difference is quite small.

 
Yeah, quite small.   ::)    But, you might want to take a look at which ones are proposing tax increases and which ones aren't.
Aim small, miss small!!!

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 11:32:07 AM »
Lets get rid of ALL income taxes, and have a national sales tax on ALL goods and services except groceries and medical expenses.  Then big corporations can pay their tax in everthing they buy as well as individuals.  If that is not enough, have a tarriff on ALL imported goods that we can make or produce here. 
 
Then cut out ALL government programs not needed except military, social security, medicare, NASA, and some welfare for the truely needy. 
Have drug testing done on ALL recipiants of ANY government welfare aid.  To get welfare, have to pass drug test.  Have manditory sterilization on ALL welfare mothers after the second child. 
 
Cut out ALL foreign aid except for earthquake victims, hurricane victims or tsunamis. 
 
Get rid of Obamacare.  Make it manditory for all to have at least emergency hospitalization insurance instead.  That way if a young person doesn't want copays for dr. visits, or copays for dental, or copays for medicines, so be it, but if they are in an accident or get snake bit or something, they would at least have emergency hospitilization. 
 
I did some calculations, and if a person with a full time minimum wage job saved 10% of their income for about 35 years, they would be a millionaire with a simple passbook savings account with an average of 3% interest.  I think for young people, we should get rid of social security and make manditory that people save 10% of their income for a new policy system combination of life insurance/retirement/disability to replace social security.  Then if they live to retirement age, they will have a nest egg.  It could be insured like FDIC. 
 
Government is a big bureaucratic waste of time. 
 
 

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2011, 02:03:55 PM »
chili privatised their social security a long time ago and it's worked well.
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Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2011, 02:11:03 PM »
chili privatised their social security a long time ago and it's worked well.
Over your life time if you still had the same deductions and 75% of the money was put into a private account you would not need Social Security and you would be able to pass it on to loved ones.  The 25% would be as an insurance policy and cover those that did not invest well and to pay for the current system.
Right now if you work for 45 years and contribute and die the day you are to collect you can not pass that money on to your family or friends.  The system destroys wealth.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2011, 02:19:54 PM »
woodduck,  that's right, it's theft, pure and simple.  I'll have to live a long time to recoup all I've paid in.
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Offline 45-70.gov

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2011, 02:31:15 PM »
this  all  makes perfect sense  and is quite logical


you  have some very  good  points  to justify


TAKING FROM ONE PERSON TO GIVE TO ANOTHER


with  enough rationalization  any theft   is acceptable
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline Gary G

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2011, 02:43:19 PM »
Some people just down right HATE the idea of others being able to keep more of what they earn. If higher taxes are the answer then lets start by asking for voluteers. Anyone here want to volunteer to pay higher taxes?
No need to volunteer.  They'll either finally collect some income taxes from trillionaire oil producers or collect more income taxes from the middle class.  Since you don't want oil producers to pay any income tax, you must be one of those who like giving money to the government.  There's lots of them lately, all with an (R) behind their name.
Economics lesson for Junior:
There are no trillionaire oil producers. They are all corporations (meaning owned by investors). In fact, if you have a retirement fund, you are probably one of the owners. These oil companies plow about 70% of their profits, when they have them, back into exploration and development. Now Junior, if you want them taxed more that means less money available for exploration and so less oil is found which means you want to pay more for gas at the pump.
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Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2011, 02:52:55 AM »
  The tax cut that killed the economy was the Bill Clinton tax cut. The one nobody talks about. It was one of the stealth tax cuts. It killed manufacturing in America. It was NAFTA. NAFTA cut the tariffs that protected American workers from having to compete with foreign penny labor.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2011, 03:09:26 AM »
If they'd cut spending, we wouldn't be worrying if tax cuts would help now would we.  ;) gypsyman
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2011, 03:19:04 AM »
chili privatised their social security a long time ago and it's worked well.
Over your life time if you still had the same deductions and 75% of the money was put into a private account you would not need Social Security and you would be able to pass it on to loved ones.  The 25% would be as an insurance policy and cover those that did not invest well and to pay for the current system.
Right now if you work for 45 years and contribute and die the day you are to collect you can not pass that money on to your family or friends.  The system destroys wealth.

yes it does ! and taking from the rich dosen't work well either or Russia would not be where it is.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Gary G

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2011, 04:42:46 AM »
  The tax cut that killed the economy was the Bill Clinton tax cut. The one nobody talks about. It was one of the stealth tax cuts. It killed manufacturing in America. It was NAFTA. NAFTA cut the tariffs that protected American workers from having to compete with foreign penny labor.
Americans compete with cheap labor in other countries with capital investment. For example, a man on a bulldozer paid $50 per hour can move more dirt than 25 chinese having wheelbarrows and shovels paid $2 per hour and at the same cost. Taxes remove much of the available capital from the economy as do low interest rates that discourage savings. Savings, when deposited in banks, becomes capital for business through loans. Tariffs only mean that consumers will pay higher prices for the things covered by the tariff. This leaves less money with which to buy other things which hurts the economy and leads to unemployment. The protected companies profit, but everyone else losses and unemployment increases. The boom of the protected companies is short lived as other companies will move into that space to take advantage. of the government created monopoly.

American companies can no longer compete because regulations, taxes, inflation and low interest rates have destroyed the capital base.
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Offline Junior1942

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2011, 04:48:38 AM »
Some people just down right HATE the idea of others being able to keep more of what they earn. If higher taxes are the answer then lets start by asking for voluteers. Anyone here want to volunteer to pay higher taxes?
No need to volunteer.  They'll either finally collect some income taxes from trillionaire oil producers or collect more income taxes from the middle class.  Since you don't want oil producers to pay any income tax, you must be one of those who like giving money to the government.  There's lots of them lately, all with an (R) behind their name.
Economics lesson for Junior:
There are no trillionaire oil producers. They are all corporations (meaning owned by investors). In fact, if you have a retirement fund, you are probably one of the owners. These oil companies plow about 70% of their profits, when they have them, back into exploration and development. Now Junior, if you want them taxed more that means less money available for exploration and so less oil is found which means you want to pay more for gas at the pump.
So if it's good that big oil doesn't have to pay income taxes why should plumbers pay income taxes?  It couldn't be because plumbers don't give millions to Republicans to keep their 15% loophole, huh?  So you'd cut or eliminate grandpa's Social Security and Medicare so big oil can keep their 15% loophole?  Do you realize that you just said if a corporation's stock is included in someone's retirement fund, then the corporation shouldn't pay income taxes?  Who should pay income taxes?  The middle class?  Maybe that circa 50% of Americans, you right wingers like to mention, who pay no income taxes should pay, huh?  That's children, students, and people living in poverty, by the way.  How do you get income taxes out of a man who makes barely enough money to survive?  Squeeze it out like you'd squeeze blood from a turnip?  Put him in jail?  Establish poverty prisons?  We could build them beside the prisons we already have and maybe save a little money. 

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2011, 05:23:25 AM »
Ross Perot was right.  The giant sucking sound.  The free trade agreements implemented by both Dems and Rep in the 1990's caused our manufacturing to move overseas.  Free trade is fine between between like countries already industrialised, like Canada or some European countries, but with former 3rd world countries like China, Mexico, Central American Countries, or Asian countries, no.  Not without some type of parity, like child labor, minimum workweeks, EPA regulations, etc. 
 
If we got our industry back, people would have jobs providing at worse a lower middle class wage, with health care for themselves and their families. 
 
Dems and Reps allowed the Banking Industry to create substitute jobs for manufacturing in home building, thus the housing bubble.  Without any manufacturing to fall back on, we are in a mess. 
 
1) Abolish the free trade laws, bring our industry back.
2) All governments from Feds to local should switch to natural gas vehicles to cut 40% of imported oil, thus creating jobs here.
3) Switch other vehicles to diesel to increase mileage per gallon to further cut imported oil.
4) The 1% national sales tax would include ANY purchase by individuals, corporations, or investments, only groceries and medical expenses would not be taxed. 
 
Simple, it would take some guts by anyone to make these changes.
 
In the meantime, Feds should cut out EVERYTHING in the budget not absolute necessary.  Only social security, military pay, veterans benefits, and the bottom 10% of total population on welfare.  Anything else, vote on a tax specifically for funding it and it alone, can't borrow from it.  Feds have borrowed from social security for years, and have spent about 50% of gasoline tax money on other things than what they were set aside for. 

Offline mcwoodduck

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Re: Tax cuts vs the economy
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2011, 05:57:22 AM »
DD quote: 
Quote
I did some calculations, and if a person with a full time minimum wage job saved 10% of their income for about 35 years, they would be a millionaire with a simple passbook savings account with an average of 3% interest.  I think for young people, we should get rid of social security and make manditory that people save 10% of their income for a new policy system combination of life insurance/retirement/disability to replace social security.  Then if they live to retirement age, they will have a nest egg.  It could be insured like FDIC. 
.
 
Excuse me please....But Isn't that what SS already is....??  Sales taxes are said to be flat taxes, right. Would investments and financial product purchases be sales taxed in your system...?
 
I'll tell you what a 'flat tax' really is....if an income group earns 40% of the revenue, gains and income...they pay 40% of the tax bill.
If the next income group earns 20% of the income, gains,revenue they pay 20% of the tax bill...
....and so on....That's a flat tax.
 
..TM7
No Social Security was set up to steal wealth.  Why invest if the Government is going to do it for you.
The idea of social security was started in a time whne the average american lived for 67 years.  So the plan was never to pay you anything.   You contribute for 30 years or more and you get payments on average of 2 years. With life span now 85 we have huge problems payig for a system that was made to go for 2 years that now goes for 20.  And that was before they expanded the system, to cover more and more people, survivors, disabled and on.  Clearly this Ponzi scheem has come to an end and the ones that have paind in the most are getting the least out of it.  I don ot understand why we do not keep the current pay roll deduction system in effect but shift percentages over time from Public to private and have the money go into a personal account like your 401K plan where you get to pick from three or four levels of risk and three or four sectors of the economy.
First of all minimum wage was never supose to feed a family of four. It is a bench mark.  Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs, not careers.  FDR and the rest of the Big Government morons must be smiling at how our citizens have been dumbed down to think the government is the answer to all of our problems rather than the cause of most of them.  The housing collapse was not the evil banks, it was the rules and gegulations that congress put in effect that made the banks offer the loans that no one could pay pack.
The excessive tax, fee and fines we have now to feed the massive government beast is what is causing more and more people to turn to that beast looking for something.  We have a "company store" with 350 Million people paying higher than normal prices for less than quality goods and the company is making it so we have no other alternatives.  The same people that grip about private industry in through  20's and 30's are blindly willing to give those same powers to the government now.  The old adtage of Power corupts....