Author Topic: .204 ultra rifle problem (Read 1627 times)

bezay4 · « **on:** July 27, 2011, 06:14:10 PM »

i bought a .204 ultra rifle from a guy a while back that wouldnt eject shells.it had some burrs in the chamber so i cleaned them up and mounted a scope.i torqued all the screws and loctited them.i tried to sight it in and couldnt get it close.so i tried a different scope and the same thing.got to lookin at holes in target and it looks like the bullet is tumbling end over end.so does anybody have any idea what is goin on?i only paid 60 bucks for it so i can always get a new barrel but would like to get this one working.any help would be greatly appreciated.thanks

quickdtoo · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:36:02 PM »

Welcome! What weight bullet? The 204 Ruger has a 1:12" twist, works best with the lighter bullets, mine will shoot 40gr Vmaxes under an inch with max loads of BL-C2, but many won't shoot 39-40gr bullets. There have been some bad 204 Ruger bores reported, one member had one that was only rifled in half the bore, so you may need to send it to H&R for replacement.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/support/repairs.asp

Spanky · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:48:54 PM »

Check it out and make sure it isn't a .224 bore.
Don't laugh... it's happened.

Spanky

bezay4 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:56:47 PM »

im using winchester 34 grain jacketed hollow points.just looking down the barrel it looks fine.but i dont know that much about it.how would i be able to tell if its a .224 caliber?i dont really have anything to measure with.can u tell by looking?could it be caused by a damaged crown or chamber?sorry bout all the questions

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2011, 07:01:11 PM »

Stick a 204 Ruger round in the muzzle, if the bullet goes all the way in to the case neck, it's oversize. You can clean up the muzzle crown, there's a home method in the FAQs for crown touch up that anyone can do, lots of other tips on anything H&R also, you should spend lots of time reading there, lots of things you aren't aware of concerning H&Rs.

Tim

bezay4 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2011, 07:06:23 PM »

ok ill give that a try.ill have to buy some more bullets.i shot them all up tryin to sight those scopes in.yeah im gonna do a lot of reading.thanks again.

Uncle Harry · « **Reply #6 on:** July 28, 2011, 08:23:39 AM »

My 204 Ultra likes 40gr. Bergers over Varget for some reason but hates 32gr. V-Max's. Go figger.......

hilbily · « **Reply #7 on:** July 28, 2011, 08:57:03 AM »

Two of my friends have 204 Handi's and neither one will shoot the 34 Winchesters worth a darn. Give them both Hornady 32 factory loads and they will do under an inch all day. The Winchesters were all over up to 6 inches.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** July 28, 2011, 09:04:59 AM »

Here's a reply by LT that should give some incite as to what to shoot in the 204 Ruger H&R.

FWIW, mine never shot any factory ammo real well, 1¼-1½" at 100yds with all of the lighter stuff, the 40gr Vmax handload was the sweet spot thanks to Mitchell. http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,59248.msg355457.html#msg355457

Tim

Quote from: LONGTOM on June 18, 2011, 05:21:46 AM

I will not dispute the master (quickdtoo) as he has far more experience with the ins & outs of the Handi than I do.
I will give an account of my experience with these two calibers in the Handi.
At the present time I own 4 223 Handi rifles, (both in 22" and 24" ultra) along with 3 204s, (again both barrel lengths).
I have owned a total of 8 204s and can say that not a single one of them ever shot over 1/2" with factory 32gr V-Max ammo.
Two of the ones I own now will do just as good with 45gr V-Max also and keep 5 32s under a dime if I do my part.
I have 1 223 that will shot a strong 1/2" or a tad bigger with the cheap ULTRA MAX 52gr hp ammo but hates the Winchester white box 45s.
The other 3 hate the Ultra Max ammo and 2 of them hate the Winchester white box 45s.
In fact, I have not found a factory load that will shoot under 1" with any of these 3 guns.
One 24" ultra will do 1.25" with Remington's varmint load.
All of my 223s are 1 in 12 twist.
I like to try factory ammo first in a gun before I start messing with and loading.
I have found that if it won't shoot a factory load, (and there are many to try) then most of the time you won't get much better with reloading for it.
There are exceptions of course but generally factory ammo will give a good hint as to the accuracy of a given barrel.
I once owned a TC Contender carbine in 223 that would match the 5 under a dime with the ULTRA MAX ammo but sold it back to the person I got it from.
I do miss that little gun but I love my 204s!!!
I have seen 223 Handis that can do the 5 under a dime or at least stay under 1/2" but so far I have never owned one.
Just shows that every gun has a mind of it's own as to what it likes and will shoot.

LONGTOM

bezay4 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 28, 2011, 04:56:58 PM »

thank yall for the help.im gonna pick up some hornadys and see what happens.does anybody know why the bullet is tumbling instead of spinning?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:00:52 PM »

Not stabilized, due to either a defective bore issue, or too long for the twist. You don't have something between you and the target do you? I've had unseen twigs/limbs near the target do that, real frustrating, the bullets is upset by the obstacle and keyholes.

Tim

bezay4 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:20:03 PM »

no.nothing between me and target.and i was only shooting like 25 yards and 2 consecutive shots were sometimes almost 2 feet apart without adjusting the scope at all.i used 2 different scopes and torqued all base and ring screws.i found a hornady 32 grain vmax bullet and stuck it in muzzle.it gets to within like maybe a hundreth of the barrel before it stops and if i tilt it to one side a little the neck of the case will touch.is that right or is it too big?

Spanky · « **Reply #12 on:** July 28, 2011, 06:10:19 PM »

You shouldn't be able to come anywhere near the neck. Pound a lead sinker down through the bore and measure it.

Spanky

LONGTOM · « **Reply #13 on:** July 29, 2011, 05:02:58 AM »

Quote from: bezay4 on July 28, 2011, 05:20:03 PM

no.nothing between me and target.and i was only shooting like 25 yards and 2 consecutive shots were sometimes almost 2 feet apart without adjusting the scope at all.i used 2 different scopes and torqued all base and ring screws.i found a hornady 32 grain vmax bullet and stuck it in muzzle.it gets to within like maybe a hundreth of the barrel before it stops and if i tilt it to one side a little the neck of the case will touch.is that right or is it too big?

I just checked my two top shooting 204s the same as you describe and mine are the same as yours.
Almost touch the case mouth to the barrel and will touch with a slight tilt with 32gr factory VMax so I doubt that yours is a over bore problem.

You stated that this was at 25yds.
Might just be a tad close.
The bullet may not have had time to stabilize yet at such close range.
I would try the same ammo at a longer distance and see how it does.
Yours might just hate Winchester 34gr bullets!

LONGTOM

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** July 29, 2011, 06:34:03 AM »

I would have thought the same thing as Spanky, but after checking mine, it's the same as yours and LTs with Hornady 32gr!

Maybe you're cleaning it too often, don't and see how it works, most Handis shoot best fouled. Be sure to touch up the crown too if you haven't.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,137636.msg1098534621.html#msg1098534621

bezay4 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 29, 2011, 10:23:12 AM »

thank yall for checking that out for me.im gonna touch up the crown as soon as i get a chance.now im not trying to argue with yall at all because i guarantee that you guys know a ton more than i do but it just seems that even at 25 yards it should should group consecutive shots closer than 1-2 feet.i mean they are way apart.i cleaned it before i shot it the first time and shot about 20 times and decided that maybe my scope was broke so i changed scopes and retorqued everything.i shot about 7 or 8 more times and they were all over the place.i had a target on a piece of cardboard that was about 4' wide by 6' tall and had shots all over it.one shot didnt even hit it.it didnt have any pattern to it.one would be high the next low then right.i dont know if i mentioned it or not but i bought it used.do yall think that there is anything somebody couldve done to mess it up like that?thanks again for all the help

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** July 29, 2011, 10:43:15 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on July 27, 2011, 06:36:02 PM

Welcome! What weight bullet? The 204 Ruger has a 1:12" twist, works best with the lighter bullets, mine will shoot 40gr Vmaxes under an inch with max loads of BL-C2, but many won't shoot 39-40gr bullets. There have been some bad 204 Ruger bores reported, one member had one that was only rifled in half the bore, so you may need to send it to H&R for replacement.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/support/repairs.asp

bezay4 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 29, 2011, 11:07:19 AM »

yeah thats lookin like the best bet.im not the biggest fan of the .204 and am thinkin bout maybe just getting a different caliber.im pretty interested in the .223 or .243.so anyway thanks for all the help

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 29, 2011, 11:13:12 AM »

Call H&R and ask for a return shipping label to send it in and have it fixed, they use factory ammo just like you, if it won't shoot good for them, they'll either fix it, or replace the barrel, it shouldn't keyhole at any range, and you shouldn't have to fix it yourself either. Although the easy crown touch up can make a big difference particularly with boat tail bullets which are more susceptible to crown issues, but you're not the first to report keyholes for their 204. $:-\$

Tim

bezay4 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 29, 2011, 11:17:18 AM »

ok im gonna do that.does it matter that i didnt buy it new?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 29, 2011, 11:18:35 AM »

Never has before.

Tim

bezay4 · « **Reply #21 on:** July 29, 2011, 11:38:36 AM »

ok.thanks

ill let yall know how it goes

gcrank1 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2011, 04:44:42 AM »

Yeah, if it cant group any better than 1-2 feet at 25 yrd. it aint gonna get better farther out!
Bullet fit at the muzzle only counts once you are past the ojive and down to the parallel sides of the shank.
Sounds like a good candidate barrel for a custom rebore

.
BTW, do you REALLY KNOW that both those scopes are good?

LONGTOM · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2011, 06:13:23 PM »

" do REALLY KNOW that both those scopes are good?"

I was thinking the same thing.
Has happened before.
I would try another scope just to be sure.
One you know is good!

LONGTOM

quickdtoo · « **Reply #24 on:** August 01, 2011, 07:02:56 PM »

A bad scope wouldn't/couldn't cause keyholes, that's on the barrel/bullet.

Tim

Quote

...got to lookin at holes in target and it looks like the bullet is tumbling end over end.so does anybody have any idea what is goin on?i

LONGTOM · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2011, 06:12:40 AM »

True.
Forgot about that part in the OP.
Was just thinking about the spread!
Just shows, always good to go back and re-read before offering advice!

LONGTOM

gcrank1 · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2011, 08:50:50 AM »

Ive had smoothbores shoot better groups than 2' at 25yd., and a .303B that would throw them sideways at 50, but still be under 2'; these with no scopes.
Maybe the rifling up at the muzzle is messed up, even if the crown looks good. Didnt somebody have one with rifling but the bore was tight in the middle and wide at breech and muzzle?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2011, 09:14:25 AM »

Yup, 95 Roadking was one of em, H&R replaced it.

Quote from: quickdtoo on July 27, 2011, 06:36:02 PM

Welcome! What weight bullet? The 204 Ruger has a 1:12" twist, works best with the lighter bullets, mine will shoot 40gr Vmaxes under an inch with max loads of BL-C2, but many won't shoot 39-40gr bullets. There have been some bad 204 Ruger bores reported, one member had one that was only rifled in half the bore, so you may need to send it to H&R for replacement.

Tim

http://www.hr1871.com/support/repairs.asp

jim46ok · « **Reply #28 on:** August 04, 2011, 04:28:52 AM »

I just got my gun back from Remington (read, NEF, then Marlin, then Remington)

My Ultra Varmint Fluted .204 barrel was BAD. Oversize, no accuracy, etc. Remington confirmed this, replaced the .204 (with a NON Fluted barrel) and I paid for a .223 barrel to be fitted.

I can now shoot MOA with both barrels. Mike Scherz (developer of the 550 Magnum) inspected the barrel and showed me how bad it was...

Problem: No fluted barrel, and it took them 3 months.....good luck

abolt-fan · « **Reply #29 on:** August 11, 2011, 10:53:37 PM »

When I worked at H&R Brian56 often came down to the range with a .204 that wouldn't shoot worth squat. He would shoot the gun and bullets would tumble to the target at 40 yds. Sometimes changing brands of ammo would solve the problem, sometimes not. Usually he just ended up replacing the barrel. Same problem often occurred with the 38-55 barrels. The problem is caused by barrels on the max side of SAAMI specs and bullets on the minimum side. My advice is any time you have this problem don't bother fighting with it. Just send it back for warranty work.