Author Topic: .54 Great Plains? (Read 805 times)

Propdoc03 · « **on:** January 03, 2004, 05:18:12 PM »

I have a slow twist GP rifle that I am going to be breaking out in the morning. This will ony be the second time I have had it out and besides that shoot, I am a total green horn. fact the last time I had it out was just after I purchased it probably four years ago. My Uncle was into them when I was a Wee Lad and I always wanted one of my own. I purcheased this one in hopes to shoot at our local matches but it just never happend, (Newly Wed) just over four years ago. Anyway, all my research has pretty much been lost other than whats not in my head. I have some .53 Hornady balls with both .010 and .015 patches that I lubed with Bore melted bore butter earlier today. I have the Lyman Peep Sites on it and cant wait till morning to play! When I first purchased it I was planning on running Pyrodex but have moved to Black Powder for my 45/70. I will most likely be running BP in the Plains rife as soon as I can burn the Pyrodex up. I was just curious as to which ball and patch combo has worked best for you in a .54? Also, can you give me a rough idea of what the drop might at 100 yards if I am sighted in at 50?

Thanks PD

Propdoc03 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2004, 05:37:14 PM »

I just thought of a couple of other questions. I have some TC Bore Cleaner and Bore Butter that I use in my Falling Block. The last time I used my Plains rifle I did the warm soapy bucket full of water thing and plunged it back and forth with the nipple submerged. Is it necessary to clean this aggressively each time of is a few patches of the bore cleaner enough? Also, on my falling block I just run a couple of patches with the bore butter through it before putting it up, is that good enough for the Plains rifle? The reason I ask is, isnt a petroleum based oil such as Butches' gun oil a bad thing to use in the bore?

Thanks PD

simonkenton · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2004, 04:27:33 AM »

Yes aggressive cleaning is necessary. Put that barrel in the hot water and clean away.
I am surprised you can get away with just a few patches of bore butter on that .45-70. Are you sure you are not getting rust in the bore?

Super Rat · « **Reply #3 on:** January 05, 2004, 08:21:22 AM »

The gun does have to be cleaned "agressively" but that does not mean you have to do the rubber-duck soap and water thing.

You can clean a black powder firearm completely with a solvent such as Hoppe's #9+. I start out with #9+, then switch to regular Hoppes #9. I use patches and a bore brush, and it does not take very long. I do not dismantle the gun, except to remove the nipple on a cap-lock, or the lock on my flinter. When she's clean lube the bore with whatever your choice of lube is. I have never found petroleum products to have any ill effects. Some people like to have kind of a "seasoning" on the bore, much like an iron fry-pan, and I guess pertoleum products will remove that. I'd just rather have my bore nice and clean. Before shooting, I always clean all oil out of the bore.

I know I am in the minority, but I've been shooting BP for about 30 years and have never used soap and water. (I think I did try it once, and then asked myself: "what the heck am I doing all this for??") The only water that gets on my guns is snow or rain. (and sometimes ice) I sure don't want any down my bore and in the breech plug threads, and anywhere else inside the gun. Which ever method you believe in, you do have to completely clean a BP firearm, it's important from both a corrosion standpoint, and getting a buildup of fouling over time, which will "season" the bore in a bad way, fill up the rifling grooves, etc. If rust starts UNDER the fouling, you may not know it until there's some real substantial damage to the bore.

Propdoc03 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 05, 2004, 01:55:02 PM »

Thanks for the info guys. I meant on my BPCR I use only use a couple of patches of the TC cleane then a couple of dry ones and two more with Bore Butter. My rifle really let me down at the range yesterday. It was shooting what would be okay groups at 100 yards but I was at 50 and was only getting 3-5" groups. I started out at 60grains and worked up to 80 grains and they all looked pretty much the same. It was towards the end of the day and I was kind of shot out and not taking time swab between shots. This is pretty much the same results I had last time at the range with it when I was patching between shots. My combo is Pyrodex .530 ball and .015 patch lubed with bore butter. I seat the ball and give it three taps with the rod and am doing it consistently. I have some Goex and Swiss that I was planning on trying out but the day ran short. So what is considered a good group at 50 yards? I was hoping for at least 1.5-2". Is there anything else to try?

Thanks PD

Super Rat · « **Reply #5 on:** January 05, 2004, 06:03:37 PM »

Well, definately try the black powder next time. Don't get discouraged, sometimes it takes a while.

At 50 yards much less than 3-5" would be desireable. My Brown Bess will do 3" at 50, but will spread out to 8-9" at 85 yards, whereas a rifle shooting 3" at 50 should still be doing 6" at 100. However, just about any rifle should be able to group into 3" at 100.

How hard is it to ram the ball down the barrel? Does it feel real tight, loose, or just right? Are you loading the balls sprue-up? Do you have a bore-brush? You might try brushing after every meal, er, I mean between shots. :roll:

And, are you using FFFg, FFg, or Fg? Bess shoots very differently depending on granulation, and she's not even rifled.

What do your fired patches look like?

Have you tried a wonder wad under the ball?

Super Rat · « **Reply #6 on:** January 05, 2004, 06:05:59 PM »

Oh yeah, when you try the black, I'd try going all the way up to 90-100 grains just to see what happens.

simonkenton · « **Reply #7 on:** January 06, 2004, 01:17:33 AM »

Propdoc, let me clarify something since you say you are a greenhorn.
Super rats Brown Bess gets 3 inch groups at 50. This weapon is a smoothbore, so what is accurate with a Brown Bess is not at all accurate with a rifle like yours.

The Shrink · « **Reply #8 on:** January 06, 2004, 03:28:58 AM »

Propdoc

Did you find any of your patches? Are they cut or burned? This is the way to adjust patch fit, the condition of the patch after firing.

Black Jaque Janaviac · « **Reply #9 on:** January 06, 2004, 12:18:24 PM »

Propdoc,

Just FYI, this is the Cap'n'Ball Pistol section. I originally thought you had questions on a Lyman Plains Pistol which would be appropriate here. However, there is a section for TRADITIONAL muzzle loading rifles and shotguns. I think you could post there and get an even better response.

Anyway, I used to shoot a .54 Lyman GPR (and the pistol version too BTW). Nothing against it, just went with a flintlock semi-custom gun.

Whether you're using Pyrodex P or RS is important. P or FFFg equivalents are pretty fast for .54s. What used to happen in my GPR with FFFg is the patches would get chewed to heck. Switching to FFg (or RS) resolved this, also using a buffer or grease cookie worked.

Shoot after a fresh snow and collect the patches. They should be in good condition, tattered on the edges but not ripped or torn or burnt. You should be able to see the ring where the patch was between the ball and the bore, even be able to see the pattern of lands and grooves.

If your patches are shabby, it's probably not even worth walking on to check your target. Fix the patch problem.

One thing before you pull all your hair out. I've seen several Italian made guns that had a poor muzzle crown. That little bevel they put to help start the ball was not concentric with the bore. You could see this as you slowly turned the barrel the bevel would get wider then narrower.

I would return such a gun if possible. Since I owned a couple of these that I couldn't return I clamped 'em up in a vise and took a file to 'em. I filed the muzzle until that bevel was completely gone. Amazing what it did for accuracy.

Super Rat · « **Reply #10 on:** January 06, 2004, 04:34:01 PM »

OOOPs, yes I guess I wasn't very clear. I was trying to say that indeed if a smoothbore will shoot into 3" at 50 you will want your rifle shooting much better.

But I find it interesting that even if you get a smoothie shooting into 3" at 50, it won't shoot a 6" group at 100, it will be more like 12".

A rifle on the other hand, (usually) even if it only shoots a 3" 50 yard group, will still stay around 6" at 100, which is still "hunting" accuracy at that range.

But with either one, you can't shoot a 25, or 50 yard group and be sure what it's doing at 100. :roll: In fact at 25 yards a rifle might not show any accuracy advantage over a smoothbore, if the smoothie has sights.

What's this got to do with the GPR? I'm not sure anymore. :-D