Guns for felons?

[Redhawk1]

I'll throw in my 2 cents, based on 30 years of state / federal law enforcement.  You can find examples of the punishment not fitting the crime if you dig hard enough.  You can find examples of anything to support your claim on anything, if you dig hard enough...Yea, there are some felonies, like the angry stewardess example noted in an earlier post, unfounded domestic violence accusations, etc. that are wrong, and should be changed.
 
But, the vast majority of felonies are committed by people who have no regard for the integrity or welfare of their fellow citizen.  They are crimes committed with the knowledge of the possible consequences, both to the actor, and to the victim, and committed with total disregard of these considerations.
 
Knowing how most of these folks think, there are very few I would ever want to see carry a gun.  Sure, maybe they would never commit another crime, but don't count on it.  At some point the safety of honest citizens has to take priority over those who have already proven their lack of consideration of their fellow citizen.  Yep, illegal guns are easy enough to get, but if anything else, just on principal, do you really want these guys to obtain weapons "legally", same as you, who has never committed an act to hurt your family and neighbors?
 
R/E the "black" issue.  There are more blacks, and certian other minorities in prison, because they commit more violent crimes, percentage wise.  Now, you can cite social or economic reasons why this is so, and you may be right, to an extent, but the fact remains minorities commit a higher percentage of felony crimes.  Period.  The argument that minorities don't get the breaks from LE that whites do, is garbage.  In almost 30 years, I have NEVER seen an officer or an agent say, "yea, we are going to let this felon go because he is white, but lets nail the black guy".   I guess the point of my post is be a man, and accept the consequences of your actions, and work thru the system to get those non-violent, marginal felonies changed if that's how you feel.
 
Larry

Great post Larry!
 

[Redhawk1]

hmmmm,  68 years on this earth and all I've wracked up is 2 traffic tickets.
it's not very hard to obey the law.
as for the guy that stole the chickens, that's understandable.  his family was hungry.
domestic violence? no excuse for it.
crime with a weapon? no excuse for it.

Got to agree with you. I am 50 and speeding tickets is all I ever had. Why, because I don't commit crimes, nor do I intend to commit a felony!

[BUGEYE]

if you resort to violence in any situation not involving self defense, then you are a naturally violent person.  I don't want you toting a gun.

[SHOOTALL]

So one can't show his emoition ?

[rickyp]

My brother was charged with d.v. several years ago when he was going trough his divorce.  His wife got him in a cornered. And started beating him with a desk phone. He pushed her to get away and left the house. She called the police and said he put his hands on her. The police came and saw the marks on him and. Oohing on her, however the arrested my brother for d.v. now he can not have a gun because of this, do you think this is right?

I was talking to a police officer about cleaning my guns outside, he told m that it is 100% legal but if an anti gun person sees it and calls the police for a guy with a gun and pointing it aroud, I would be arrested and charged even though I am not doing anything wrong. Is that right?

If you have an issue with a neighbor and they know you have guns, the neighbor could call the police and say you pointed a gun at them even. Though you didn't do it or even have contact with them, you have guns and you are guilty in the eyes of the police and will be arrested and charged with a felony.  This. Stuff has happened more then not you think this is right?

[BUGEYE]

So one can't show his emoition ?

sure, but emotion and violence are different.  my first wife tried to make our divorce ugly but I kept a civil tongue and she calmed down....     most situations can be handled that way and if not, that's why you carry a gun.

[SHOOTALL]

Some people won't listen until you get loud. I don't see taking a right for that.
Guess some just want a PC world .

[rickyp]

You are right violence and emotions are two different thing. But not to police and the courts anymore

How would you like being charged with d.v. or child endangerment for giving your child a sack on the butt it can and does happen

[BUGEYE]

shootall,  nobody forces me to get violent, I learned long ago to walk away and let them think they won.

rickyp, I can bring a hundred witnesses to court that will swear that I DON'T brandish my guns.
keeping a level head usually prevails.

[rickyp]

Bugeyed, keep thinking that, unfortunaly that isn't always the case and when you are talking guns in a anti gun area that will not work. People are now believe  gunowners and hunters are evil killers no matter what and if someone accused you of something you did it end of story.

[rickyp]

Member we are now in times when kids get expelled from school for having a tee shirt with just the name of a gun maker on it, young kids get in trouble for drawing a picture of a gun. Times have changed and the laws are being g writer so braud. That anyone can become a fellin. For really not doing anything wrong. And end up loosing g everything.

[Casull]

 

My brother was charged with d.v. several years ago when he was going trough his divorce.  His wife got him in a cornered. And started beating him with a desk phone. He pushed her to get away and left the house. She called the police and said he put his hands on her. The police came and saw the marks on him and. Oohing on her, however the arrested my brother for d.v. now he can not have a gun because of this, do you think this is right?

I was talking to a police officer about cleaning my guns outside, he told m that it is 100% legal but if an anti gun person sees it and calls the police for a guy with a gun and pointing it aroud, I would be arrested and charged even though I am not doing anything wrong. Is that right?

If you have an issue with a neighbor and they know you have guns, the neighbor could call the police and say you pointed a gun at them even. Though you didn't do it or even have contact with them, you have guns and you are guilty in the eyes of the police and will be arrested and charged with a felony.  This. Stuff has happened more then not you think this is right?

     Where do you guys come up with this stuff.  I deal with these sorts of things every day.  The LEO's I see do NOT arrest the victim of domestic violence (as evidenced by the visible wounds) based JUST on the say so of the other party.  They are in fact, required by law to arrest the primary aggressor (whether male or female).  Seriously, do you really think they are going to arrest the person who's obviously been beat based only on the word of the person standing there with NO indication of any injury?  Regarding the neighbor saying you pointed a gun at them, I can tell you that without something more, the vast majority of LEO's are NOT going to make an arrest when you are on your own property and state that you did not do so (the majority of LEO's are NOT idiots).  Does this stuff happen on rare occasions?  Sure, but so what.  Mistakes happen in every aspect of life, deal with it.  Should we NOT arrest and prosecute people for murder because occasionally the wrong person gets arrested?  Of course not.   

[Casull]

 

Member we are now in times when kids get expelled from school for having a tee shirt with just the name of a gun maker on it, young kids get in trouble for drawing a picture of a gun. Times have changed and the laws are being g writer so braud. That anyone can become a fellin. For really not doing anything wrong. And end up loosing g everything.

     What does a kid getting expelled from school have to do with adults committing FELONIES?  As far as "anyone can become a fellin" for "not doing anything wrong", I say BS.  Are some laws overbroad or should they not be felonies?  I think so.  But, that doesn't mean that the offenders didn't do anything wrong.

[BUGEYE]

Bugeyed, keep thinking that, unfortunaly that isn't always the case and when you are talking guns in a anti gun area that will not work. People are now believe  gunowners and hunters are evil killers no matter what and if someone accused you of something you did it end of story.

I'll have to respectfully disagree.  most people are non-violent.  I know a couple of violent folks and they are repeat offenders.
I carry my gun concealed, I clean my guns in the house, I have an anti-gun lesbian neighbor but I don't try to force my beliefs on her, I try to be as unobtrusive as possible.  most of my neighbors are black or asian and none of them see me as a threat.   some people like to throw down the gauntlet and say I'm a gun owner, now whatcha gonna do about it.
being civil and mannerly counts.
now here on the web is where I can act ugly.

[rickyp]

Cas. I am talking first hand experance. My brother was arrested as I described. He was not on scene when. The police interviewed his wife, they went to his house. He took him self from a dangerous place and they arrested him. His word against hers. In Maryland the court system is tailored for criminals and not honest hard working people.
Just because you haven't seen thins around you doesn't mean it isn't happening all the time

[Casull]

 

Cas. I am talking first hand experance. My brother was arrested as I described. He was not on scene when. The police interviewed his wife, they went to his house. He took him self from a dangerous place and they arrested him. His word against hers. In Maryland the court system is tailored for criminals and not honest hard working people.
Just because you haven't seen thins around you doesn't mean it isn't happening all the time

   Rickyp, with all due respect, just because your brother told you that is how it happened, doesn't mean it really did.  And, even if it did, that doesn't mean it's happening "all the time".  If if happens one time in a thousand, the "one timer" will claim it happens all the time.  Remember too, being arrested is NOT being convicted. 

[rickyp]

It is amazing how people can live in a bubble and not see the real world.
the reference with the kid and tee shirt is an example of how overblown things have gotten.

You are right people are arrested for doing something wrong. Let me rephrase. It to say someone does something unintentional or by accident or fault of his own

Taking away someone rights should be on a case by case basis and there should be a way to get reinstated if the person can show that he is now a upstanding citizen. And earned them back

[BUGEYE]

just went to google and it seems that most domestic violence is a misdemeanor unless some serious injury occurred.

[Casull]

It is amazing how people can live in a bubble and not see the real world.

 
Rickyp, I live and work in the real world and deal with it every day.  I'll guarantee you that I see more of this in a month than you'll see in a lifetime.
 
 

It to say someone does something unintentional or by accident

 
Do you have any examples of these felonies committed unintentionally or by accident?
 
 

Taking away someone rights should be on a case by case basis and there should be a way to get reinstated if the person can show that he is now a upstanding citizen. And earned them back

 
On that we can agree.  I never said that the law doesn't need work.

[guzzijohn]

R/E the "black" issue.  There are more blacks, and certian other minorities in prison, because they commit more violent crimes, percentage wise.  Now, you can cite social or economic reasons why this is so, and you may be right, to an extent, but the fact remains minorities commit a higher percentage of felony crimes.  Period.  The argument that minorities don't get the breaks from LE that whites do, is garbage.  In almost 30 years, I have NEVER seen an officer or an agent say, "yea, we are going to let this felon go because he is white, but lets nail the black guy".   I guess the point of my post is be a man, and accept the consequences of your actions, and work thru the system to get those non-violent, marginal felonies changed if that's how you feel.
 
Larry

Larry may be correct that minorities commit more crimes (one can debate the reasons for this but that is not my point at this time) but the real gap is in sentencing. Study after study shows that especially black and to some extent hispanics receive harsher sentences for the same crime.
Some officers do target minorities as compared to whites, but at this point I will sayI hope they are by far the exception. I directly witnessed this in Wichita one evening. Several of us were leaving were leaving a bar. There was a patrol car parked just beside the exit to the street. The lead car was a white female with a totally spiderwebbed cracked windshield, no problem. The next car was my black female friend who was the software expert for the DAs office at the time and she had not had any alcohol. Her car was perfect and she broke no laws but was stopped, supposably for not using a turn signal (she did signal, I was directly behind her when she signaled). They detained her for 20 minutes insisting that she give permission to search. She firmly but politely held her ground and they finally released her with no ticket or search. I those two cops were also aware that I had parked and was watching the whole thing.
GuzziJohn
GuzziJohn

[shooter69]

A FELONY IS A FELONY! Bye and large most people who commit FELONIES are not nice people. I rest my case.

[rickyp]

The point to all this is that not all felonies are the same and not everyone that is charged with them are true harden crinmals

[BUGEYE]

The point to all this is that not all felonies are the same and not everyone that is charged with them are true harden crinmals

of those that try to get their rights restored, how many succeed?
as you said earlier, it should be a case by case basis, but I haven't heard how many get one or both restored.
Dyer county Tenn. actually elected a convicted felon for sheriff.  he was a real lowlife.

[us920669]

Some of the excesses mentioned above are another unintended outcome of the War On Drugs.  Judges have lost a lot of the discretionary power they used to have, many prosecutors are on the make for higher political office, and some behavior which was always considered bad has been criminalized to the fare-the-well.  Wife beating is a serious matter, but the DV laws were often written by extreme feminists.  A lot also depends on where you live.  Someone mentioned Maryland.  That place is full of ultra-liberal lunatics in high office.  Not all, of course, but plenty. 

[BUGEYE]

us92, you're right about some prosecutors that want to be a state attorney general.
they have a conviction count to keep up and can get aggressive.

[yellowtail3]

just went to google and it seems that most domestic violence is a misdemeanor unless some serious injury occurred.

Bingo, sort of - time for everyone to understand that YOU CAN LOSE YOUR CIVIL RIGHTS DUE TO A MISDEMENOR - read up on the Lautenburg Amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_Violence_Offender_Gun_Ban
Note that the bar for being convicted of misdemeanor 'DV' is very, very low.

Are some laws overbroad or should they not be felonies?  I think so.

Share with us what laws are overbroad, resulting in felonies, where they should not be felonies?

Remember too, being arrested is NOT being convicted.

True, so far as you go - but if you're even tangentially connected to the LE/legal business, you know that for some crimes you're pretty well screwed just  by being arrested.
For DV, you don't even have to be arrested to lose your firearms. There is the ex-parte order, which means, issued without hearing the side of the accused (almost always a man). Here is how it works: Woman wants out of marriage. Perhaps she gets a little counseling from INTERACT or one of the other feminazi DV groups out there, who really do need to burn in hell. Anyhow... she goes to judge, sometimes accompanied by DV 'advocate' (or at least coached). Says she's scared of hubby. They had this or that fight... "has he ever called you bad names?" - and SHAZAMMMMM! order is issued, unbeknownst to Husband Sap. Cops show up at his house, take his firearms, give him five minutes to get clothes and 'tools of your trade' and kick him out. 10 days later you get to go to court and - get this, the burden of proof is on you - show why the order should not be extended for a year. If it is dismissed/you win, you'll get your guns back in.... oh, a month or two, maybe, depending upon how quickly sheriff wants to get them back (there'll be a hearing). If you lose... you've lost your firearms/property as long as the order is in place. A GET THIS - you're an instant felon if you're caught at the range or hunting. Understand that the bar for keeping DV orders in place is very, very low.
Casull:

Rickyp, I live and work in the real world and deal with it every day.  I'll guarantee you that I see more of this in a month than you'll see in a lifetime.

In what capacity do you see this?
BUGEYE:

us92, you're right about some prosecutors that want to be a state attorney general.they have a conviction count to keep up and can get aggressive.

Absolutely true. It ain't about the truth, or what just/unjust... it's about winning.

[rickyp]

Cas. For an example of inintensonal commuting a fellowly. On the md/de border is a ocean town with limited major road ways. And the state line is not real clear. In de you can have a c.c.w but not in md. Now if there is an accident on one of the roads and you are forced into md to turn around and you have your weapon on you, you just commuted a felony in md. But due to the conditions you had no choice.

As for you seeing thing in a month then I see in a life time, don't bet the farm on it. My entire family my self and wife included are life long public seventh. My wife was an emt and I my self as a fire.fighter. my sister is the click of the court for the county we live in, my dad, uncles where county sheriffs. My nephew is currantlu a l.e.o. my niece and her husband to be are in corrections. My brother is a batailon fire chief. So I can feel safe to say I see as much as you or more per month.

[BUGEYE]

in Ga. it's only a misdemeanor to carry without a permit or carry in the wrong place.

[yellowtail3]

Some of the excesses mentioned above are another unintended outcome of the War On Drugs.

Yep.

Judges have lost a lot of the discretionary power they used to have, many prosecutors are on the make for higher political office, and some behavior which was always considered bad has been criminalized to the fare-the-well.

Yep.

Wife beating is a serious matter, but the DV laws were often written by extreme feminists

You do not have to beat your wife to be labeled an abuser, or lose your 2nd Amendment rights. The DV bar is very, very low. 'Domestic Violence' has been defined so far downward, it bears little resemblance to it's name/label. That's because it has come to have much more to do with power and control and gender politics, than ab out keeping people from beating their wives.

[Casull]

Cas. For an example of inintensonal commuting a fellowly. On the md/de border is
a ocean town with limited major road ways. And the state line is not real clear.
In de you can have a c.c.w but not in md. Now if there is an accident on one of
the roads and you are forced into md to turn around and you have your weapon on
you, you just commuted a felony in md. But due to the conditions you had no
choice.

Well, as far as could I see, a first offense for carrying concealed without a permit in MD carrys a penalty of a fine from $250 to $2500.  That's not even close to a felony.  You might want to look for another example.
 

As for you seeing thing in a month then I see in a life time, don't bet the
farm on it. My entire family my self and wife included are life long public
seventh. My wife was an emt and I my self as a fire.fighter. my sister is the
click of the court for the county we live in, my dad, uncles where county
sheriffs. My nephew is currantlu a l.e.o. my niece and her husband to be are in
corrections. My brother is a batailon fire chief. So I can feel safe to say I
see as much as you or more per month.

Well, I wasn't really talking about what your entire family sees, just you.  Now, if you are a fire fighter, I really don't see how that puts you into a position to see what LE and the courts do on a day to day basis as regards the processing of felons.  If you would like to provide examples of what you see on a daily basis, I'll certainly listen.