Anyone here making a career of the military ?

[ironglow]

  Perhaps Temnelson or nogunshere can chip in..
  Talked to my grandson today (Marine staff Sgt). He said they recieved a memo today saying the military retirement as we have known it..is finished.  From what I understand, the military retirement plan will be changed to some kind of a 401K policy which will be available @ age 65..unless they raise the age of retirement.  Benefits will not be the same either..starting now !
 
   How many of the NCOs with 6-8-12 years will stay with it ? If they go, the heart of our fighting troops will be severely compromised..    Perhaps that's what Obama and his team of leftists want !
 
  There are no veterans in the white house inner circle, no veterans among the 'czars'..no veterans on staff..
  What can we expect when there are none on staff who ever wore a military uniform  ?
 
     ...At least not an American uniform..

[briarpatch]

The word I have seen thrown around was (proposal). This I guess by the DOD and no doubt straight from the clown and company.
Could be a bad deal for those who chose to serve. Of course if enough dont like it, there is always the draft.

[yellowtail3]

I see the Military Worship is thick here.

The old 50% at 20, 75% at 30 is extremely expensive. We've used it to keep a wartime military in place since 1942, more or less, with a few dips. That realization has been around a long time; first guy I heard it from was my Dad, who happens to be a retired military officer.

times is tight

[ironglow]

The word I have seen thrown around was (proposal). This I guess by the DOD and no doubt straight from the clown and company.
Could be a bad deal for those who chose to serve. Of course if enough dont like it, there is always the draft.

***************************************************************************
  Briarpatch;
     ..The obamanation has put it in effect..starting today..if you were to retire tomorrow morning you're given a new/old medal...  It's called "the purple shaft"..
   To compare combat troops with any civilian job is STUPID !  31 spec ops troops died last night, mostly SEAL team 6... likely shot down by armed Taliban they had not yet received permission (from CENTCOM) to fire upon..  Name a civilian job that compares..
   Troops shopuld not lose a dime before the ACLU, ACORN. Planned Parenthood, National endowment for the Arts, EPA, WIC, and a hundred thousand other wasteful programs are fully cancelled.

[briarpatch]

What more than anything gripes my a&& is the idea that a lot of men and women sighed up under the old plan and are now made to change in the middle of the stream. When the planning they and their families have done for the future was under another structure and they will lose a ton.
Start this new system under the next man hired and continue from there.
Not one s--t eating monkey putting this together or endorsing it will be touched in bonus,retirement or anything.
 

[Empty Quiver]

Patriotism is all well and good. When you have been busted up in service, and I don't even mean battle wounds, you do not get a special discount at the grocery store. Retired vets need more than our respect, they need some dang money.
 
If the entire compensation package is on the line fine. Pay these good men for the job they are currently doing. Peace time billet washing skivies is one thing. Living in some third world dump changing hearts and minds oughta pay pretty dang good though.
 
We are paying men to gamble with their lives. What sort of money is your future worth? Is theirs worth any less?   

[yellowtail3]

Patriotism is all well and good. When you have been busted up in service, and I don't even mean battle wounds, you do not get a special discount at the grocery store. Retired vets need more than our respect, they need some dang money.

Probably should get the same kind of disability most folks get... ?
 
Mil retirement is something to consider; it's expensive. And it's a deal, if you're in and have the foresight to see it as such. A guy who started in say, 1990, got a commission.... and punches out this year as an O-5. He's making around 100K a year, will get 50K annually for life. He's doing just fine. Lots of folks don't make that much working full time right now.

Like I said, it's expensive.

[briarpatch]

My company had the old defined benefit plan much like the Military. Bean counters decided it would be better to go 401. They decided to force the switch on everyone much like a lot of companies did during this time frame.
I and most workers would have started over.

Of course the bean counters and wigs would be exempt.
Someone pulled the company charter out that had been established at the turn of the century and found out the way it was written-- what was good for the goose was good for the gander.
Without a charter change with employees involved they had to change also. After trying to change the charter with little success they implemented the change on the next man hired or to those that voluntarily would want to make the change.
I am not argueing Military retirement is expensive. It is.   I do say honor the contracts as given before the change.

[briarpatch]

if an assessment were made on the value of a man in a position such as a Navy nuclear specialist with a top secret clearance in the Sub fleet. What would he be worth over 30 years?
Another thing to remember is all men are paid the same with the same rank. Some positions are worth more than others.

How will this play out? Is it more profitable to keep training men for the positions or try and keep them.
Across the board there are a lot of specialized positions. Fighter pilots are hard to find just anywhere.
My guess is it will cost more in the long run what they are doing with military retirement. Generally the ones making the change is incompetent.

[briarpatch]

Just a thought.
If Military retirement is such a good thing, why dont more people take advantage of it?

[powderman]

We are paying men to gamble with their lives. What sort of money is your future worth? Is theirs worth any less?   
 
 
EMPTY QUIVER. Thats something the hate America crowd refuses to understand. Good post. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  Here is what was being discussed in June...and just put in effect in the last couple days:
   http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2740909/posts
 
         Let's look at the practical aspects alone...
 
 A)   Faced with a reduced retirement...delayed for decades..why should an NCO not seek to employ his skills elsewhere, where he can probably build up an even greater 401K by regular retirement age ?
 B) If there is no special reward for risking one's life and limb..and no appreciation by elected leaders for the sacrifice, why bother ?  Would you do the same for reduced retirement and no appreciation ?
 C) My grandson will be seeking employment elsewhere as his present enlistment ends, somewhere between Oct and Nov.  He can take his present skills elsewhere and make more money..and not face such risks he has as a Spec Ops Marine.  I really don't care what kind of retirement "comparable" civilian jobs offer..because for combat troops (esp Spec Ops) there IS NO "comparable" civilian job.
 D) Many benefits military were previously given after service will also be curtailed..not yet clear.
 
     THe administration have decided to reduce pay and benefits for our fighting men & women... last I heard, congress was still keeping their golden retirements after only serving 2 years....and congress was getting a raise !
   http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-09-Raise-me_N.htm
   
  The white house staff gets huge raises..while the troops get slashed, some sense of justice by Obama;
  http://gawker.com/5687778/white-house-staffers-got-a-bigger-raise-than-you-did-last-year
 
  DINNY.. and other active duty personnel..have you been hit with this ?

[yellowtail3]

EMPTY QUIVER. Thats something the hate America crowd refuses to understand. Good post. POWDERMAN.

Who hates America, Powderman?


Could be that a lot of the people you call the hate America crowd are simply your fellow citizens, who have a diff opinion. Maybe you're just smarter & a better patriot than everyone who doesn't agree with you?

[andy1300]

We all wouldn,t see retirement at 65, if we don,t stop giving the rich income tax breaks ! they are paying at smaller
percent rate then you and me I checked by using last years tax books, give it a try.
The GOP will be willing to have us work till we are 68 years to retirement, then taxing them the same as me.
and I don,t mine paying my fair share for the things we all need to have a good life.

[Empty Quiver]

So where are you folks?
Pay them up front for that service?
Take a chance they get themselves killed for lousy pay and a life insurance policy, or if they survive a military career pay up on the backside?


Patriotism won't keep a person in the service forever. Your lifetime compensation will probably look about like it is now, or conscription will soon follow. This is a volunteer force and as such free market principles are going to come into play.


When the politicians decide to go out and play war it costs money. Bombs, bullets, fuel, hardware, software, mens lives, it all costs money. Hell, maybe they will throw a war and nobody will show up.

[Empty Quiver]

EQ....doesn't look like the private sector can beat the mil package, or offer such job security, or early retirement and a med system right now....not even in union jobs. If it was all about patriotism, etc. then there would be a whole lot more truth talking in and around the military establishment...which there is not...exactly the opposite in fact; until retirement......which means its mostly about the 'package' and the leg up despite alot of talk....
 
..TM7

If the private sector were unable to compete how do you explain the private contractors providing security? Furthermore how many careers offer the opportunity to be shot blown up or incinerated on a daily basis? Cops, firefighters, and demolition experts are fairly well compensated I believe.


What sort of compensation would you accept to be career military? I'll tell you it was not enough for me to choose it as a career.

[andy1300]

Private sector could work, we got the best arms.

[ironglow]

  Most civil service jobs that require even minimal risk (compared to active combat troops)..police, firemen etc, already have a similar retirement package as the military enjoyed until yesterday.  In fact, in most cases civil service covered firemen and police usually make more money than an NCO with the same years of service.  That is exactly what got many states in trouble..     That's what the governor of Wisconsin was getting straightened out a few weeks ago..and the Obamanites were all against what he was doing.

[Mohawk]

My brother joined the Air Force in 1989. He retires in October as an E9. With allowances he makes about 90K a year. His retirement will be around 26K a year. Needless to say he is looking for a new career.

[Double D]

Post containing and replying to personal attacks deleted withut regards to total content of post....

Stick to the debate and leave the cheap shots out.

[Empty Quiver]

EQ....doesn't look like the private sector can beat the mil package, or offer such job security, or early retirement and a med system right now....not even in union jobs. If it was all about patriotism, etc. then there would be a whole lot more truth talking in and around the military establishment...which there is not...exactly the opposite in fact; until retirement......which means its mostly about the 'package' and the leg up despite alot of talk....
 
..TM7

If the private sector were unable to compete how do you explain the private contractors providing security? Furthermore how many careers offer the opportunity to be shot blown up or incinerated on a daily basis? Cops, firefighters, and demolition experts are fairly well compensated I believe.


What sort of compensation would you accept to be career military? I'll tell you it was not enough for me to choose it as a career.

.
No bid contracts and the fact the TPTB needs operatives that function beyond ROE, UMCJ, and media,,,hence mercs etc. Basically wars are about making alot of money, IMO...see Gen Smedley's assessment.
 
I really don't know what is proper recompense for a mil carrer...example for E-5 to E-7 chopper mechanic, I don't know...that's why I asked what people think. I know my young former employee thinks the package offered to him is terrific. I do know a mil career was too regimented for me, way to confining and hierarchical...not for me for any amount of package and $s....not my cup of tea.....that's why we have a civilian form of gov and a free enterprize system....
 
..TM7

Then you understand the job is lousy, and for the pay offered, it was not for you. At some price point you would have joined up though don't kid yourself, lets say a hundred thousand $ a week, that ought to sway your thoughts certainly some number would.


 I'm of the opinion that given a free market ie., no draft, this has already sorted itself out. Now that compensation has been reduced rest assured recruitment will fall.  This ain't lost on those making this decision. The wars are soon going to end why else would you drive off all the help?

[briarpatch]

Quite honestly I dont understand Military pay or retirement. Cant speak as to what they get or will get.
It seems there are some questions that would have to be fairly concidered.
What about overtime pay? combat pay? foreign duty pay?
Like everything else, we shall see

[Shu]

I think that paying for life after 20 years of service is expensive, very expensive. Yet how many civilian jobs engage in actual combat operations. There really is no comparisson to military and any civiliian job. As a LEO you can go home at the end of shift, try doing that in a war zone.
You risk your life as career military, I don't see career politicians giving anything up for retirement. In fact a 1 term congressman gets better retirement.
 
What I see happening is the loss of career proffesionals. This in my opinion will wipe out the senior NCOs and senior officers. Next war the draft will probably be instituted becuase there won't be any career professionals to shoulder the load. Then we can hear all about how there is no leadership etc.
What price do we put on a proffessional military person? 400K life insuarance and a thank you for your service but we don't want you around anymore? 
 
Could save more money by not sending it over seas to people who hate us.

[ironglow]

  Maybe the "gays" cn do the job from now on...    ...Do you suppose they will appreciate the "new rules of engagement" ?
 
  Some of you guys might recall.. I said about 1.5 years ago, when Obammy instituted his new rules of engagement..that our casualties would climb, and unlike Iraq, where deaths were 1-3 at a time..rarely even three, we would be facing multiple casualties as a direct result of the new ROE.
  31 Spec Op American troops killed, is the biggest single action casualty figure of the entire 10 years of war..
 
          I don't like to be an "I told you so" !....but ..I did !

[yellowtail3]

  Maybe the "gays" cn do the job from now on...

They've been doing it since this country was founded.