Author Topic: 38-55 (Read 4509 times)

Bingo · « **on:** August 07, 2011, 05:28:20 PM »

My father-in-law just gave my son his old Marlin model1893 lever action rifle. It is chambered in 38-55. The boy wants to take it for black bear and whitetail this year. So far, the ammo I've seen on line is 255 gr.
What kind of feet per second are we talking and how far could you take a black bear or whitetail. What are the ballistics?

BTW I'm no fool, this gun is going to the gunsmith for a good cleaning and looking over before it is fired again.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #1 on:** August 07, 2011, 05:34:44 PM »

The 255's run 1800 FPS, plenty to take deer or bear. Good handloading will make this into a nice short range rifle. While it's at the gunsmith have him slug the bore and shoot cast out of it as this was made for cast bullets.

jlchucker · « **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2011, 01:56:12 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on August 07, 2011, 05:34:44 PM

The 255's run 1800 FPS, plenty to take deer or bear. Good handloading will make this into a nice short range rifle. While it's at the gunsmith have him slug the bore and shoot cast out of it as this was made for cast bullets.

Cast bullets in a gun like this can be very accurate, and a lubed lead bullet pushed by today's powder and primers add up to minimal barrel wear. As a kid growing up in Vermont back in the 1950's 38-55 leverguns were fairly common. Some of the old timers using them used to bring in some pretty big deer. As Billy says, 1800 fps is plenty to take out deer or bear, and cast bullets certainly will not bounce off. Back when the 38-55 came into being (initially as a target round) cast bullets at about 1500 black-powder FPS were all that was available, and no hunters worried about being undergunned with it. Enjoy, and good luck hunting.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2011, 06:42:06 PM »

The Winchester 38-55's are loaded pretty light. I haven't run mine over a chrono, but I would be very suprised if they break 1300 fps. I bought a bunch of boxes when they put em on close-out here, dropped the price to 19.99 and then down to 14.99 a box. I may pull the bullets and load em with new powder to bring them up to 1600-1700 fps as some of em have a fair amount of powder coming out of the case after firing. Others are burning much cleaner with no powder left after firing. I haven't taken any game with the Winchester bullet, but I'm betting it's fairly soft and shouldn't be run much faster than 17-1800 fps. That would be plenty for any deer or med. sized blackie. DP

Bingo · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:05:17 PM »

From what I am reading the factory ammo is at 12-1300 fps At 100 yrds with a 225 gr bulet it is carrieing 906 foot pounds of energy @100 yrds and 675 at 200 yrds.
The way I've been taught, it takes 1100 ft.lbs to drop a deer but I have never shot a 255 gr bullet.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:23:28 PM »

If you punch a 38 caliber hole thru a deers lungs, heart or shoulder, yer gonna have meat on the ground. Round ball muzzle loaders put deer down with out a problem at 75-100 yd yards with less bullet weight and FT LBs of energy than the 38-55 has at 200 yd. Years ago somebody pulled "ya gotta have XXXXX ft lb's of energy to kill a deer or and elk" right outta where the sun don't shine. One of the bigger myths in the hunting world.

DP

hillbill · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2011, 04:14:12 PM »

dont be afraid to try jacketed bullets as well.when i inherited my gpas 32-40 hi-wall from him complete with mold and tong tool, i went to reloading for it and could not get cast to shoot well at all.lucky to keep them on a paper plate at 50 yrds.the bore was pretty bad as it had been shot with black powder since 1910 or so.i switched to speer jacketed bullets and it would easily keep them on a playing card at 50 yrds, which i considered pretty good considering the bore looked like it had been cleaned with barbed wire its whole life.i plan to work more with it in the future as i think gpa was casting with pure lead, id like to try some wheel weight lead and see what happens.

jlchucker · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2011, 04:20:49 AM »

Quote from: hillbill on August 10, 2011, 04:14:12 PM

dont be afraid to try jacketed bullets as well.when i inherited my gpas 32-40 hi-wall from him complete with mold and tong tool, i went to reloading for it and could not get cast to shoot well at all.lucky to keep them on a paper plate at 50 yrds.the bore was pretty bad as it had been shot with black powder since 1910 or so.i switched to speer jacketed bullets and it would easily keep them on a playing card at 50 yrds, which i considered pretty good considering the bore looked like it had been cleaned with barbed wire its whole life.i plan to work more with it in the future as i think gpa was casting with pure lead, id like to try some wheel weight lead and see what happens.

Hillbill, my standard mix for all of my rifles (mostly leverguns but including a bolt 30-06) is wheelweights mixed with about 10 percent pure lead. The biggest thing with cast bullets isn't the hardness, as some would have you believe. For best results and minimal leading, you need to make sure your cast bullet is sized correctly for the bore diameter you have, and that you are using a good lube. Every rifle (even new ones) is different. If you start with an undersized bullet for certain you'll get lousy accuracy and some leading. Once you cast and size some bullets for your rifle, then try different loads until you get one that's the most accurate, and H**l with what the chrony reads and what gun magazine writers say. Write down your best load for future reference. I even write down my not-so-accurate loads for a particular gun so I won't go back to them.
Good luck.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #8 on:** August 12, 2011, 07:22:34 PM »

Are you going to use factory ammo?

Cheese

Bingo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2011, 02:41:19 PM »

OK guys I have heard a lot of opinions about cast and jacketed bullets, I'm a novice reloader. Factory ammo is 1300 fps and some of you are saying they can get 16-1800fps. Is 1800 fps safe from an old lever like this or is the action to weak? Is this a good gun for Black bear or not and what is the effective range? How far can the boy shoot without tracking the thing for 3 miles. ( The boy is a good shot!)

billy_56081 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2011, 03:50:00 PM »

Bingo the loads at that velocity are still in the very low pressure range.

jlchucker · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2011, 04:48:58 AM »

Bingo, if you are a novice reloader (or even a veteran one for that matter), the Lyman Reloading Handbook is an excellent work to have in your library. This book will provide you lots of info on reloading both jacketed as well as cast bullets. It has data for both, in almost all calibers including 38-55. Lyman manufactures molds, but not jacketed bullets or powder, so when it comes to jacketed bullets, that company offers neutral information. My own book is the 48th edition (#49 is the current one) and mine shows 38-55 data and comments on page 270. If your rifle is in good condition you should easily be able to get between 16-1800 fps with a cast bullet weighing a nominal 249 grains. That's some pretty good thump, but then again, 1300 fps is pretty solid, too. There have been thousands (millions?) of black bear taken with 38-55 Winchester rounds since the introduction of that caliber in 1884, with black powder as well as smokeless cartridges, and jacketed bullets as well as cast. Maybe you need to get your rifle checked out by a gunsmith to confirm that it's safe before trying to work up a load for it. Then, worry about accuracy first. If you (or your boy) places a shot well, you won't find it necessary to "track the thing for three miles". If you make a bad shot, you'll track wounded game all over the place regardless of velocity and bullet weight. Again, good luck. I suspect you've got a fine rifle there for what you want to do.

Bingo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 11, 2011, 03:28:58 AM »

Ok guys here's the report.
At the chamber side of the barrel of this old gun had so much lead build up that you could barely see the rifleing. It took four days and a bottle of good lead solvent to get her cleaned up. However, after four days of cleaning the barrel looked brand new. the rifleing was sharp from top to bottom.
The front sight was broken off so I sent out for a new one and got it put on. I was expecting a 10 puund shot gun trigger but much to my suprise, once the gun and action were cleaned and lubed the trigger was amazingly crisp and light.
I went to the gun shop and found some old ammo that had been on the shelf for a few years and got a reasonable deal on it. Winchester super X 255 gr bullet.
Saturday was the last day for deer and the boy really wanted to drop one with great grand dads gun. We finally had every thing together Thursday afternoon and while I was working, Brian took is new old toy to the gun range.
He was amazed that the old gun did not kick and was very accurate at 100 yrds. Off to the field!
Saturday morning a doe came accross the field at about 175yrds. Brian missed. Later that afternoon, another doe came out at about 200 yrds. he missed twice. He said " I saw where the bullet hit the ground. I guess I'm just to used to my modern high power rifles. I need to shoot this thing some more and learn it's and my limitations."
" Smart Kid!"
A week ago Brian dropped a doe at 280 yrds with his Grand-fathers Savage 99 chambered in 300 Sav.
The deer ran about 20 feet before it piled up. I guess Brian just found that 38-55 is a lot different than 300 Sav.
We can still hunt deer in one of the counties where we live until the end of Jan. Now that I have some brass, I'm going to look up some loads for this nice old rifle and see if I can't get a little more speed and range out of her.
I could use some feed back and opinions. Thanks

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 02, 2012, 07:09:15 AM »

The rainbow arc of the old BP calibers takes some getting uses to. It's more like archery than modern rifle shooting. My BC has the ladder sight from an old Krag on it, not a scope.

argie1891 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 02, 2012, 09:55:46 PM »

a few years ago i killed a little white tail deer with the lyman 270 gr. bullet and 25 gr. of rl7 it goes over the crono at 1650 fps. a long ways from the 1800 fps quoted above. factory ammo hits right at the 1350 fps mark. i have a modern marlin cowboy lever action. i wouldnt push a nice marlin 93 to hard. i can tell you there have been truck loads of deer killed with the factory load. that bullet is 3/8 of an inch in diameter and packs a heck of a wallop. go shoot it and keep the range no farther than about 100 to 125 yards and it will drop any deer that isnt armor plated. argie1891

eastbank · « **Reply #15 on:** January 02, 2012, 11:53:37 PM »

i own three 38-55,s, a winchester high wall,a marlin cowboy 336 and a old 1896 winchester 1894. the load i shoot is 31grs RL-7 with the hornady 220 fp and is safe in all three. i shoot the marlin cowboy alot,the other two after sighting in only to carry hunting once in a while. i tried black powder and cast bullets,but non shot as good as the RL-7 load, out of the marlin cowboy with a scope to check the load it shot 3/4 inch groups at 75 yds. i dont do that good with open sights any more. eastbank

mannyrock · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2012, 04:49:06 AM »

Bingo,

I think your son got a great rifle. The absolute simplest thing for him to do, is to practice judging the distance of 125 yards. Once he can judge that distance, he should just never shoot at a deer that is further out. Sight the rifle in about 2 inches high at 100 yards and it will be fine out to that distance, even with factory loads. Makes everything a whole lot easier.

Regards, Mannyrock

gcrank1 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 25, 2012, 01:30:27 PM »

I +1 that, you can load it up and get into high pressure and still not flatten the trajectory all that much. It is the hole that lets out the wind and vital fluids, learn how to put that hole in a critter and it is tenderloin time. Save the 'newer' smallbores for those across the field shots.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #18 on:** May 25, 2012, 06:07:09 PM »

Billy, what rifle do you chamber this round in?

Cheese

gcrank1 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 12, 2013, 02:40:54 PM »

Keep in mind that a bunch of those old rifles are softish barrel steel and once the 'new' HV loads with jacketed bullets came out guys shot 'em, sometimes quite a bit, and washed the rifling out. Sometimes you can get those poor bores to shoot lead 'just OK' at low velo for funnin' around. For instance, I once had a WIn HW in 32-40 that would keyhole bullets unless I kept them under about 1000fps and only used 8mm Nambu lead (.323 dia) at about 98gr(?).; basically a 32-20 load.
So iffn I had a nice old gun with a good bore you bet I'd shoot lead in it and no jacketed. As said, out to 100-125yd it will do the job and for an open sights gun that front bead/blade will cover up a lot of critter. I'd limit myself to probably under 75yd. just because of that.