Author Topic: Beretta 85/Cheetah or Walther PPK (Read 3900 times)

Stuart C. · « **on:** August 08, 2011, 08:52:32 AM »

Hi,

Not to get into the .380 debate, but....

Which do you like better and why?

Or if not, what would you take over both of them.

Thanks.

Bigeasy · « **Reply #1 on:** August 08, 2011, 09:36:14 AM »

Have owned both(my Beretta was the 84 with a higher cap. magazine). Both are all metal guns, large these days for their caliber. Both are very well made, and easier to handle and hit with compared to the newer micro sized 380's, like the Ruger LCP or Keltec. In my opinion, the Beretta has a better trigger, and is more accurate, as well as more reliable with hollowpoints, compared to the Walther. Also liked the feel of the grip on the 84 better, though being the high cap version of the 85, it was a slightly wider double stack frame.. Also, the Walther was a pre-S&W gun, so feeding with hollow points may have improved. I used to get hammer bite with the Walther, something to consider if you have large hands.

How a gun fits in your hand is important, as is trigger and controllability, and both these guns are a step above the newer micros in that regard, making fast and accurate hits easier. My personal choice would be the Beretta, though frankly, for the size of either, I would probably be looking at a 9mm at that point, like the Glock 26 or the S&W M&Pc.

Larry

rockbilly · « **Reply #2 on:** August 08, 2011, 09:39:44 AM »

I am a fan of the PPK, however since you asked..........For a .380 I prefer either the SIG 230 or 232 over the PPK. While the PPK is a proven weapon I am hooked on the reliability of the Sig. Keep in mind, for comfortable carry non of them are as light as the Kel-Tec PF-9,and you have the additional power of a true 9mm.

Mikey · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2011, 10:30:35 AM »

Stuart: for my money, if I were to purchase another 380, I would probably just go for a Walther PP, not the PPK - longer barrel, easier control, additional round in the mag, more a long term shootin' and carryin' piece than the PPK - sort of like the difference between a S&W Model 10 and one of their lightweight snubbies. I don't think S&W is licensed for the PP line. I would also check out the Beretta single action line to see if they still produce the M70 or something else in 380 that is not a da/sa pistol. jmtcw.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #4 on:** August 08, 2011, 11:08:03 AM »

I had a PPKs my buddy had the Bretta 85 in the form of a Browning . Both shot well the PPK was more of a pocket gun. The browning was easier to shoot well but both were good enough at SD range. The PPKs would collect dirt and dust if carried in a pocket and not stripped and cleaned often. Several times the lint/dirt stopped the action and it jammed. I went to a revolver because of the PPKs .

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #5 on:** August 08, 2011, 03:20:40 PM »

I wish I still had the Sig 232 I sold. For me, no .380 shoots better than the 232.

1marty · « **Reply #6 on:** August 08, 2011, 05:04:35 PM »

I have the walther ppks (S&W) 380. The gun still has a bad bite in the web of the hand. Accuracy is great but had to send it back twice for repairs. The gun now is very reliable however, I'd go with the Beretta.

williamlayton · « **Reply #7 on:** August 09, 2011, 06:06:47 AM »

I have both the PP and PPK. James preferred the Baretta, his boss (AKA-the agency) preferred the PPK.
Hummm--I like the PP but the PPK has been with me for 45 years. It is stainless and that is the reason. The PP is so blue it hurts the eyes---I just would hate to scratch it up.
Stir mine.
Blessings

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** August 09, 2011, 06:45:32 AM »

In one movie he toted a HSc but called it a PPK . Showed up better on film.

rockbilly · « **Reply #9 on:** August 09, 2011, 08:17:17 AM »

Don't throw the Mauser HSc in the mix, in can't compare to the PP, PPK, Beretta or the Sig.

My wife's first gun was a Mauser HSc, she bought it while we were in Germany, it had a habit of jamming, she carried it anyway. I later bought one, it has the same problem. Today they are safe queens. When she "Wants/Needs" a gun today she goes for my model 60 Smith, she knows it will work.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** August 09, 2011, 08:40:13 AM »

Quote from: rockbilly on August 09, 2011, 08:17:17 AM

Don't throw the Mauser HSc in the mix, in can't compare to the PP, PPK, Beretta or the Sig.

My wife's first gun was a Mauser HSc, she bought it while we were in Germany, it had a habit of jamming, she carried it anyway. I later bought one, it has the same problem. Today they are safe queens. When she "Wants/Needs" a gun today she goes for my model 60 Smith, she knows it will work.

Mine did also but Bond used one

S.S. · « **Reply #11 on:** August 09, 2011, 04:15:50 PM »

Beretta.... But find yourself a Model 70s,
.380 perfection. on any of the steel pocket type
pistols, polish the feed ramp, chamber throat and
chamber. this will alleviate most of the jamming.
many will say change the magazine but try the
above mentioned things first.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2011, 02:10:12 AM »

Quote from: S.S. on August 09, 2011, 04:15:50 PM

Beretta.... But find yourself a Model 70s,
.380 perfection. on any of the steel pocket type
pistols, polish the feed ramp, chamber throat and
chamber. this will alleviate most of the jamming.
many will say change the magazine but try the
above mentioned things first.

Now that sounds like a great self defense gun ! " will allevate MOST of the jamming"
For those not in the know # 1 on the list of qualities a self defense gun MUST have is 100% reliable .

jlwilliams · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2011, 03:06:56 AM »

You really need to shoot them all. It doesn't matter what any of us say, the one that fits your hand is the one you need.

My father in law can't shoot three rounds through a PPK without cutting the web of his hand. The gun just doesn't fit his hand. I throw that out as a case in point where a good gun is a bad fit for one person.

williamlayton · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2011, 06:33:25 AM »

I hate hammer bite--and--knuckle busting.
Blessings

S.S. · « **Reply #15 on:** August 18, 2011, 01:38:06 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 10, 2011, 02:10:12 AM

Quote from: S.S. on August 09, 2011, 04:15:50 PM
Beretta.... But find yourself a Model 70s,
.380 perfection. on any of the steel pocket type
pistols, polish the feed ramp, chamber throat and
chamber. this will alleviate most of the jamming.
many will say change the magazine but try the
above mentioned things first.

Now that sounds like a great self defense gun ! " will allevate MOST of the jamming"
For those not in the know # 1 on the list of qualities a self defense gun MUST have is 100% reliable .

No such thing as 100% reliable in these small guns. even a weak grip of the fingers
can cause jams. not a bad gun, just a weak grip. the things I mentioned are a good idea on any
semi-auto

jlwilliams · « **Reply #16 on:** August 19, 2011, 04:04:02 AM »

Good point. All guns are man made machines. "100%" is like "perfect". Nice in theory but not real. Fool yourself into believing that anything is "100% reliable" and it may prove you wrong. Maybe this is nit-picking the use of words. Just bear in mind Murphy's law.

Finding a gun/ammo combo that never jams in practice hopefully translates to that combo not jamming in the moment of truth. Is a gun that has never jammed somehow malfunction-proof? Probably not.

Believe that anything made by the hands of man can be perfect and you are fooling yourself. You do your best, you cover your angles as best you can, you hope for some luck because you have done your best to create your good luck. Buying quality tools greatly increases your chances of success in any endevor. Good gear is not a guarantee, but it's a good start.

"100% reliable"? Sounds like hyperbole.

drdougrx · « **Reply #17 on:** August 20, 2011, 04:20:10 AM »

Actually....one of the best .380s that was ever produced was the Colt Pocket Model of 1908. Wish I had one! I have a PPK/s, an interarms gun and one of the 1st they made...4 dig serial # that I bought in 1982 I think...anyway...nice tight groups...4" high and 4" to the right. I haven't done anything to it as I was concerned that it would get ruined. I've also had an ULM PPK in 380 and at least 2 PPs in 32. All gone except the PPK/s. They were all reliable with ball ammo. I currently use a Colt Mustang Pocketlite in 380 as a "deep cover" gun....it's reliable but tiny. I've never looked at the Beretta as they are almost as large as a 9mm and today there are too many good, small 9mms on the market to consider (my all time favorite in the SW 3913/14).
IF you get a PPK, SW or Walther...I'd shoot the requisite 200 rounds of ball through it...send it to a smith for a ramp, throat and polish as well as a trigger job...and then shoot it again with 200 rounds of Gold Dots or whatever you like...and then carry it.

Brett · « **Reply #18 on:** August 20, 2011, 04:44:59 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 10, 2011, 02:10:12 AM

Quote from: S.S. on August 09, 2011, 04:15:50 PM
Beretta.... But find yourself a Model 70s,
.380 perfection. on any of the steel pocket type
pistols, polish the feed ramp, chamber throat and
chamber. this will alleviate most of the jamming.
many will say change the magazine but try the
above mentioned things first.

Now that sounds like a great self defense gun ! " will allevate MOST of the jamming"
For those not in the know # 1 on the list of qualities a self defense gun MUST have is 100% reliable .

I'm with Shootall on this one. If a gun jambs even occasionally during range time I would not trust it as a carry gun. True nothing mechanical is fool proof but if a gun shows signs of problems at the range it's almost a definite that it will fail you at the worst possible time a la Murphy's law).

LocnLod · « **Reply #19 on:** August 20, 2011, 10:18:43 AM »

I'd also add, if your gun doesn't malfunction at the range (and it shouldn't) you should MAKE IT malfunction yourself and practice clearing it. Set up stovepipes, failure to fire and doublefeeds. Clear them on the clock while moving to cover if it's available.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #20 on:** August 20, 2011, 10:31:06 AM »

Quote from: rockbilly on August 08, 2011, 09:39:44 AM

I am a fan of the PPK, however since you asked..........For a .380 I prefer either the SIG 230 or 232 over the PPK. While the PPK is a proven weapon I am hooked on the reliability of the Sig. ...."

Plus one on the Sig. I really like my 230. When I was looking for a personal gun in he early 90's I really wanted the PP, PPK/S or a true PPK if I could find one. I was going to be on a pedel bike and was going to wear a fanny pack as the easiest way to conceal while wearing the Polo shirt and shorts of my work uniform. So I bought the holster and tried different guns in it. The Sig jumped out and into my hand. I had a problem with the PPK/S and the J frames. Well the Sig is a happy medium between the the Beretta and the PPK/S ( the Sig and the PP are the same size) The Beretta has a full grip and is as wide as a double stack 9mm. If that is your choice a compact 9 may be a better choice (sig P229, Sig P2002, glock 19, ect.) more power in the same size package. But that can be said about a lot of other small 9's like the Khar that is the size of a PPK. But some guns are too small and fall into the novelty relm rather than compact. And the size of your hand will determine what is novelty and what is a viable defense gun.