Author Topic: abortion (Read 21305 times)

ironglow · « **Reply #330 on:** September 01, 2011, 03:37:16 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 01, 2011, 02:48:17 PM

A lot of people think abortion is murder....but it isn't. None of the scriptures posted have anything to do with a fetus. They address predestination.

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Cabin4 · « **Reply #331 on:** September 01, 2011, 03:48:53 PM »

I guess the point of that would be: Since the abortion happened and all that happens is predetermined by God, per the predestination scriptures and therefore it should have happened. So no sin, no murder, no actual taking of a life, none of our "business" as mortals and actually it is the carrying out of God’s will.

So these abortions are essentially " on order" and in the delivery pipeline just waiting for fulfillment into the future.

I..yh yh....yhh yhh...

Swampman · « **Reply #332 on:** September 01, 2011, 04:19:33 PM »

The point being is that the elect cannot be aborted.

ironglow · « **Reply #333 on:** September 02, 2011, 12:44:10 AM »

Oh yes..a genuinely "Christian" view

.. or rather, as Swampy would have us believe is the predestinationist view at least..

"So, 50 million babies have been snuffed in the US alone, during the last 38 years..Don't mean a thing ! they were scheduled to be scalded, torn limb from limb or have their brains sucked out into a vacuum jar.. so what"!

"So millions starve, millions have died in concentration camps and 3,000 Americans were butchered or baked on 9/11..that was just some kind of twisted 'fate'. It was planned that way, you won't hear a complaint from me" !

" Don't come to me with that stuff in (1 Corinthians 13)"
And now these three remain, faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. (1 cor 13:13)
"You can just save your breath, I don't want to hear it...so just "zip it" !

Do we have the predestinationist view correct, swampy ?

Swampman · « **Reply #334 on:** September 02, 2011, 12:53:26 AM »

You have the Biblical view correct.
Romans 9 ²⁰Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? ²¹Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? ²²What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: ²³And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

ironglow · « **Reply #335 on:** September 02, 2011, 02:02:25 AM »

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #336 on:** September 02, 2011, 04:59:18 AM »

So swampman sin does not exist ?
Why was the devil cast out ? wasn't he doing as pre programed ?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #337 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:00:02 AM »

Why did Jesus forgive those on the crosses next to him ?

powderman · « **Reply #338 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:03:40 AM »

The only reason Christians are responding here is because there may be somebody on the fence and unsure of Goods words or path. NOBODY is born simply for the purpose of going to hell, that is a choice each of us make. Heaven is our reward for confessing our sins, repenting of them, and accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Salvation is available to all, not just a few predetermined souls. Doctrine like swampy teaches and professes is false and dangerous. Were it true there would be no reason to believe in Jesus, his crucifixion or resurrection, Or that he lives today. There would be no reason to lead a Godly, moral life, what would be the point?? A murderer or serial killer and rapist, or child molester would have the same chance for Heaven as your dear old Grandmother who has led a stellar life. Why go to Church?? Why give to the needy or help your neighbor if God is going to send you to hell anyway?? Don't believe this false doctrine because there is a Heaven and most assuredly is a hell, the choice is OURS. There has been no rude behaviour or name calling here but it's been made pretty clear that the mods want this thread gone for reasons known only to them so I'll try real hard not to post again. POWDERMAN.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #339 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:23:03 AM »

I posted the earlier powderman. It is the truth . I as him ?'s that he won't ansewer. Guess it dosen't suit his agenda . Much like the OP ask is it hurting America , yep . A lie told enough gets believed , add to it that some can falsely justify their sins and it picks up speed all the faster.
We as humans are made in the image of God . God said Jesus was alive in the womb so then all are if we are in his image.

ironglow · « **Reply #340 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:23:23 AM »

Right Powderman;
It is only because there may be someone who needs the truth that could conceiveably be misled. God Himself, promised a redeemer, a savior...peter reminded the infant churches of this:

" The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9)

¹¹ For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, ¹² instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, ¹³ looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, ¹⁴ who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds. (Titus 2:11-14 ) (I added color for emphasis)

BUGEYE · « **Reply #341 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:58:05 AM »

I think it was me that got it locked because one of my posts was deleted. I get overzealous on this subject because of my daughter. her birth mother could have chosen abortion but since she didn't, my wife and I have been blessed beyond imagination. I'm not sure where this thread changed to predestination but that's just one persons problem and we should pray for him.

ADOPTION, NOT ABORTION!!!!!

ironglow · « **Reply #342 on:** September 02, 2011, 06:01:37 AM »

Bugeye;
Doesn't look like it is locked yet...and give that little sweetheart a big bear hug,.. for me.. Ironglow

BUGEYE · « **Reply #343 on:** September 02, 2011, 06:17:59 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on September 02, 2011, 06:01:37 AM

Bugeye;
Doesn't look like it is locked yet...and give that little sweetheart a big bear hug,.. for me.. Ironglow

IG, will do. it was locked for a little while but myself and others requested it be unlocked and nw_hunter complied.

ironglow · « **Reply #344 on:** September 02, 2011, 06:21:56 AM »

Thanks NW;
You could have been stubborn ..but were not. I can understand the frustration, because the subject seems about worn out.
I think it only continues for the reasons powderman stated in his post #339.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #345 on:** September 02, 2011, 06:59:35 AM »

At some point the christians will have to stand up for what we believe and not be shut up or out. We were to quiet for to long and it showes .

BUGEYE · « **Reply #346 on:** September 02, 2011, 07:23:17 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on September 02, 2011, 06:59:35 AM

At some point the christians will have to stand up for what we believe and not be shut up or out. We were to quiet for to long and it showes .

yeah, and that's a shame.
a lot of people must think they're going to live forever by the way they run down Christianity and uphold islam. in a few short years we'll stand before God and be reminded of our stand on every issue including ABORTION.

Swampman · « **Reply #347 on:** September 02, 2011, 10:42:15 AM »

Most people are predestined to hell according to the Bible and nearly all of the church fathers. You can make stuff up if you like but there is no scripture to support your doctrine. Martin Luther stated that most are predestined to hell.
Only the elect can or will be saved. The non-elect cannot be saved because the are "the children of the wicked one" according to Jesus Christ.

DDZ · « **Reply #348 on:** September 02, 2011, 11:35:40 AM »

So all the aborted children are destined for hell anyway, so it don't matter if they are murdered before they are born, because God has meant it to happen that way. ( they are not God's elect)
I have never in my life, known a professed Christian to believe anything close to that, but I guess I've finally run into one here.
Is it possible that some take Scripture out of context, and end up just believing what they want to?

ironglow · « **Reply #349 on:** September 02, 2011, 01:11:10 PM »

Predestination;
Guess Jesus' sacrifice on the cross was unnecessary..being it was all decided long before he was born in the flesh.

No reason to study the Bible either..it was all decided before the Bible was written....

BUGEYE · « **Reply #350 on:** September 02, 2011, 01:28:57 PM »

non-Christians use predestination to justify living a sinful life. that's easier than staying on the straight and narrow.

Swampman · « **Reply #351 on:** September 02, 2011, 03:39:38 PM »

Chances are you've never met a Christian.
There is no such thing as aborted children. They don't go anywhere because they never lived.
Hell will be full of people who lived holy lives according to the Bible.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

ironglow · « **Reply #352 on:** September 02, 2011, 03:54:56 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 02, 2011, 03:39:38 PM

Chances are you've never met a Christian.
There is no such thing as aborted children. They don't go anywhere because they never lived.
Hell will be full of people who lived holy lives according to the Bible.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

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King James Version (KJV) ⁸Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction. ⁹Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

Swampman · « **Reply #353 on:** September 02, 2011, 03:58:02 PM »

Nice scripture but it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
We have nothing to do with our final destiny. The elect cannot be aborted they must fulfill their destiny..

Cabin4 · « **Reply #354 on:** September 02, 2011, 05:00:06 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 02, 2011, 03:58:02 PM

Nice scripture but it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."
We have nothing to do with our final destiny. The elect cannot be aborted they must fulfill their destiny..

Who provided you with this guidance?

ironglow · « **Reply #355 on:** September 03, 2011, 01:24:13 AM »

I'm guessing..David Koresh..or Jim Jones....

Here is an interesting finding;

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=340785

Notice the #1 point the court found out ..after scientific examination

" That the abortion will terminate the life of a whole, separate, unique, living human being".

BUGEYE · « **Reply #356 on:** September 03, 2011, 02:49:59 AM »

I'm glad to see an appeals court finally doing something right. they are usually leftest.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #357 on:** September 03, 2011, 03:48:57 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 02, 2011, 03:39:38 PM

Chances are you've never met a Christian.
There is no such thing as aborted children. They don't go anywhere because they never lived.
Hell will be full of people who lived holy lives according to the Bible.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I really don't get what you are trying to say Swampman. Are you trying to tell us that a loving merciful God would create 1 million souls and say these are destine to go to heaven with me for eternity? Then create 100 million more and say these poor souls I destine to go to a fiery hell for eternity and there is nothing they can do about it. Even if they prophesied in my name and cast out demons, they will go to hell, because I predestined them for it.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #358 on:** September 03, 2011, 04:00:00 AM »

Lost, I was gonna ask something similiar, now awaiting his response.

Swampman · « **Reply #359 on:** September 03, 2011, 04:12:14 AM »

I very much doubt there are a million elect souls.

I don't think God is concerned with the children that aren't his.

³⁶Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. ³⁷He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; ³⁸The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; ³⁹The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. ⁴⁰As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.