Author Topic: abortion  (Read 22513 times)

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Offline powderman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #420 on: September 07, 2011, 07:18:52 AM »
None are innocent.  We are born in sin and shapen in iniquity.  Murder isn't sin, it's a symptom of sin which is unbelief.

 
Which brings us right back to abortion, those who don't have God in their lives, unbelievers. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: abortion
« Reply #421 on: September 07, 2011, 07:27:42 AM »
I think you are not only all alone on GBO with these beliefs, I think you are pretty much isolated in the world with these views. The "anything goes" syndrome based on a biblical foundation is about as far from this earth as I've ever seen anyone proclaim. So while you say Martin Luther was a believer in predestination, I am Lutheran and have never run across any Lutheran who studied the Lutheran concepts who would agree with you to this far, far reaching extent. I think this is something you listened to at some point in your life and it helps bridge some "gap" for you so you can feel comfortable saying you’re a Christian. It’s far from any church teaching and its far from any other man believing in it, which is something you offer over and over again on this forum. You stay in your house and never congregate. Maybe that is the foundation for a belief system first and this predestination theology just happens to fit the “stay at home/non congregate” requirement. Unfortunately this theology is also a good excuse for some very serious sinning like abortion and murder.   
Please let us know where you live. I’d hate to accidently walk on your property.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #422 on: September 07, 2011, 08:04:53 AM »
Nobody said anything about anything goes.....unbelievers always jump to this conclusion...I presume it's because they struggle to control sin in their lives because they want to or enjoy sinning.
 
"All things whatever arise from, and depend on, the divine appointment; whereby it was foreordained who should receive the word of life, and who should disbelieve it; who should be delivered from their sins, and who should be hardened in them; and who should be justified and who should be condemned." - Martin Luther
 
It's a shame that the Lutherans have abandoned sound doctrine.  Their church was founded on it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: abortion
« Reply #423 on: September 07, 2011, 08:30:23 AM »
You need to make up your mind Swampman. You implied abortion and murder are not a sin and that if these acts are committed they are not in the persons control due to predestination. Now you are saying they are sins in our control.
 
Just because I don’t believe in you should not be mistaken that I'm a non-believer.
 
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Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #424 on: September 07, 2011, 08:47:16 AM »
Abortion and murder are symptoms of Adams (actualy Eve's) sin in the garden.  It matters not wheather they are in a persons control or not.  We are condemned because of the original sin, not because of our sins.
 
"the will of man is bound in sin, and therefore __completely unable to cooperate__ with God. Therefore, the sovereign grace of God must be __the sole determining factor__ in the salvation of men." Martin Luther
 
Being good or bad has nothing to do with eternal life.  Martin Luther believed in double predestination.
 
If we are elect, we will desire to please God.  It's in our genetics.
 
An elect child of God cannot be aborted.  They have a destiny to fulfil.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: abortion
« Reply #425 on: September 07, 2011, 09:01:16 AM »
I get your point. I do not believe in that point. I believe God gave us a brain and he expects us to use it. The bible teaches us right from wrong. He wants us to follow the right path.
 
Still all seems like predestination is just a good excuse for poor actions. You can always claim God’s will and or destiny.
 
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #426 on: September 07, 2011, 09:07:57 AM »
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: abortion
« Reply #427 on: September 07, 2011, 09:16:31 AM »
For what it's worth, I neither know nor care if I'm elect.  I simply trust in Jesus Christ to do whatever he wishes with me or to me.
 
I do the best I can and expect nothing in return for it.
So in reality like all of us we go to heaven by accepting Jesus and the grace of God , you just don't like church ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: abortion
« Reply #428 on: September 07, 2011, 09:21:44 AM »
Rev 3:16.  being lukewarm, old swamp will get spewed out of Gods mouth.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #429 on: September 07, 2011, 09:47:57 AM »
In reality we don't have to do (or not do) anything.  It's completely up to God.
 
Romans 11:6 "But if it is in His grace that He has selected them, then His choice is no longer determined by human actions. Otherwise grace would be grace no longer."
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #430 on: September 07, 2011, 10:36:10 AM »
Sounds like the old " THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT defense. I don't follow that way of thinking, but if want to, Ill respect your right to do so.

Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #431 on: September 07, 2011, 10:38:21 AM »
In fact, God lets the devil make you do it.
 
If you don't believe me, read Job chapter 1 where God allows satan to tempt Job.
 
Another interesting scripture....
 
“I form the light, and create darkness.  I make peace and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”  Isaiah 45:5-7
 
I believe what the scripture says.  Others may do as they wish.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #432 on: September 07, 2011, 11:21:50 AM »
I guess Hitler, Stalin and Sadam weren't so bad after all.They were just following orders.
 

Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #433 on: September 07, 2011, 12:42:15 PM »
Sodom and Gomorah contained 2 million people.  Moses led 2 million out of Egypt and all of them died without seeing the promise land.  In Noah's day all but 8 were wiped out.  God is soverign.  We cannot question what he does.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #434 on: September 07, 2011, 01:02:49 PM »
Why were the 2 million people of Sodom and Gamorah killed?
 

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #435 on: September 07, 2011, 01:05:42 PM »
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, yet they did. If God forbid them ;yet caused them to eat the fruit- what is the lesson?

Offline ironglow

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Re: abortion
« Reply #436 on: September 07, 2011, 01:14:40 PM »
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, yet they did. If God forbid them ;yet caused them to eat the fruit- what is the lesson?
*************************************************************
XD; ....Excellent !
 
   ...And when Noah left the ark..why did God cause him to get drunk...and then be displeased with his drunkeness ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #437 on: September 07, 2011, 01:32:23 PM »
Why were the 2 million people of Sodom and Gamorah killed?

Because God wanted them dead.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #438 on: September 07, 2011, 01:34:34 PM »
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, yet they did. If God forbid them ;yet caused them to eat the fruit- what is the lesson?

So God could see what it was like to be a man and a saviour.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #439 on: September 07, 2011, 01:35:56 PM »
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, yet they did. If God forbid them ;yet caused them to eat the fruit- what is the lesson?
*************************************************************
XD; ....Excellent !
 
   ...And when Noah left the ark..why did God cause him to get drunk...and then be displeased with his drunkeness ?
Was God displeased with his drunkeness?
 
 
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline ironglow

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Re: abortion
« Reply #440 on: September 07, 2011, 02:04:21 PM »
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, yet they did. If God forbid them ;yet caused them to eat the fruit- what is the lesson?
*************************************************************
XD; ....Excellent !
 
   ...And when Noah left the ark..why did God cause him to get drunk...and then be displeased with his drunkeness ?
Was God displeased with his drunkeness?
*****************************************************************************
  Swampy;
  While the Bible doesn't strictly forbid the use of alcohol, especially for medical use... God does not like drunkeness by ANYBODY..Noah or any other..
 
   If you missed that, you better get reading..Here are 75 reasons God hates drunkeness, just for starters to bring you up to date with the Bible:
 
       condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.

 
1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.

2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality

3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.

4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.

5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.

6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.

7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.

8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.

9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.

10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.

11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.

12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.

13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated

14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.

16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.

17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.

19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.

20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.

21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.

22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.

23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.

25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable

26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.

27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.

28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.

29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)

30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.

31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.

32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.

33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.

34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.

35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.

36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.

37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.

38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.

39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.

40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.

41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.

42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.

43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.

45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.

46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.

47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.

48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.

49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.

50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.

51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.

52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.

53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.

54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.

55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.

56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.

57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.

58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.

59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.

60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.

61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.

62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.

63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.

64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.

65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.

66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God

67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.

68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.

69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.

70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.

71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.

73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.

74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.


 
 
 
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #441 on: September 07, 2011, 02:31:57 PM »
Why were the 2 million people of Sodom and Gamorah killed?

Because God wanted them dead.
Why did he want them dead?

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #442 on: September 07, 2011, 02:34:02 PM »
God told Adam and Eve not to eat the forbidden fruit, yet they did. If God forbid them ;yet caused them to eat the fruit- what is the lesson?

So God could see what it was like to be a man and a saviour.
If he is God , he should know what it was like. Are you implying God isn't all knowing?

Offline Swampman

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Re: abortion
« Reply #443 on: September 07, 2011, 02:50:29 PM »
The fall and everything about it was all in God's plan from before the foundation of the world.  It had to happen so God could manifest his Old Testament names.  I believe there are seven of them.  God would not be God without someone to worship him and that's why he created us.  He wanted fellowship and that's why he created us.  He was lonely and so he created us.  He wanted to be a man and so on several occasions he created a body and indwelt it.  He is soverign and does as he wishes.  Our thoughts on these matters are moot.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #444 on: September 07, 2011, 04:03:49 PM »
I don't think you answered the question. You said "God wanted to see what is was like to be a saviour and a man." Why didn't he know what it felt like?

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #445 on: September 07, 2011, 04:06:30 PM »
 'God would not be God without someone to worship'
What was he before he created man?
 
 
 

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Re: abortion
« Reply #446 on: September 07, 2011, 04:35:15 PM »
Rather than waste my time with someone who isn't really interested in the truth, I'd suggest you read the Bible.  I've been at it 50 years and I don't have all the answers.  In fact I don't even care.  God doesn't need a reason...he is sovergin.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline XD40SC

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Re: abortion
« Reply #447 on: September 07, 2011, 04:55:15 PM »
How is my asking you questions about your believes a waste of your time?? I said earlier I respected your opinion. I was just trying to see your view. If you feel asking someones questions is a sign that someone isn't seeking the truth- tell me - how does one seek the truth without asking questions?

Offline ironglow

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Re: abortion
« Reply #448 on: September 07, 2011, 05:18:49 PM »
  Swampy says;
   " So God could see what it was like to be a man and a saviour"
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   Really ...Swampy...?
   Why would the "elect" who are already predestined to be in heaven..ever need a savior ?.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline billy_56081

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Re: abortion
« Reply #449 on: September 07, 2011, 05:38:27 PM »
  Swampy says;
   " So God could see what it was like to be a man and a saviour"
*************************************************************************
   Really ...Swampy...?
   Why would the "elect" who are already predestined to be in heaven..ever need a savior ?.


Now that's a good question.
 
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.