Author Topic: abortion (Read 22532 times)

ironglow · « **Reply #210 on:** August 24, 2011, 12:45:54 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 24, 2011, 07:10:23 AM

I didn't write the Bible, I just reported it's position. It's pretty clear your positions are based on opinions and not facts. Free will is a very very modern American concept, that just isn't Biblical.

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So here's a question for "the sage from the swamp".... How about a brief commentary on Proverbs 31:8,9 ?

Open your mouth for the speechless,
In the cause of all who are appointed to die
Open your mouth, judge righteously,
And plead the cause of the poor and needy.
Proverbs 31:8-9

Swampman · « **Reply #211 on:** August 24, 2011, 12:52:15 PM »

Has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I'm all for it though.

powderman · « **Reply #212 on:** August 24, 2011, 02:17:55 PM »

Free will is a very very modern American concept, that just isn't Biblical.

Definitely not true. Why repent if we don't have free will?? POWDERMAN.

Swampman · « **Reply #213 on:** August 24, 2011, 03:29:03 PM »

You will only repent if you're elect and predestined to eternal life. The non-elect cannot repent.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #214 on:** August 24, 2011, 03:36:57 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 24, 2011, 03:29:03 PM

You will only repent if you're elect and predestined to eternal life. The non-elect cannot repent.

So no matter what we do in life, we are either predestind to go to heaven or hell? Cool!

But I aint taking your word for it.

Swampman · « **Reply #215 on:** August 24, 2011, 03:55:36 PM »

You don't have to. Read the Bible.

Shu · « **Reply #216 on:** August 24, 2011, 04:27:20 PM »

I can see that the evade the simple question and make a ridiculous statement mode has been turned back on. Nothing more than a stumbling block for those who truly seek God.
Blind you are and blind is what you will be.

powderman · « **Reply #217 on:** August 24, 2011, 05:00:48 PM »

Quote from: Shu on August 24, 2011, 04:27:20 PM

I can see that the evade the simple question and make a ridiculous statement mode has been turned back on. Nothing more than a stumbling block for those who truly seek God.
Blind you are and blind is what you will be.

YEP, no sense in trying to talk sense. POWDERMAN.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #218 on:** August 24, 2011, 06:04:39 PM »

I think there is a bridge out there missing its unfriendly resident.

Swampman · « **Reply #219 on:** August 25, 2011, 12:46:01 AM »

No need to seek God. If you're his, he seeks you....according to the Bible.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #220 on:** August 25, 2011, 12:59:51 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 25, 2011, 12:46:01 AM

No need to seek God. If you're his, he seeks you....according to the Bible.

Well Swampman did He ever find you and if He did how do you know?

ironglow · « **Reply #221 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:50:33 AM »

If I just sit here and marvel how I am one of the "chosen", I'm all set..no mental process required..
A couple millennia ago, some folks thought gazing upon Baal did the trick !

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #222 on:** August 25, 2011, 02:32:57 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 24, 2011, 07:10:23 AM

I didn't write the Bible, I just reported it's position. It's pretty clear your positions are based on opinions and not facts. Free will is a very very modern American concept, that just isn't Biblical.

someone owes me money , my BS meter broke the needle it pegged so hard.

Swampman · « **Reply #223 on:** August 25, 2011, 02:39:37 AM »

Quote from: Lost Farmboy on August 25, 2011, 12:59:51 AM

Well Swampman did He ever find you and if He did how do you know?

He found me before the foundation of the world according to the Bible......believe me, you know.

Don't base what you believe on what the church teaches. Base it on the scripture.

powderman · « **Reply #224 on:** August 25, 2011, 04:18:24 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 25, 2011, 12:46:01 AM

No need to seek God. If you're his, he seeks you....according to the Bible.

If that were true then you are saying that we don't need God?? He actually needs us?? In this thread you have shown a total lack of true understanding of Gods word. Sad. POWDERMAN.

Swampman · « **Reply #225 on:** August 25, 2011, 06:23:33 AM »

He does need us. That's why he made us. Read the Bible.

ironglow · « **Reply #226 on:** August 25, 2011, 06:32:30 AM »

Swampy;
It may be just as well you are out there in the "ecclesiastic woods" by yourself. I doubt even the most enthusiastic hyper-Calvinist would share your exact views.
Those kind of things happen when a man becomes a recluse..living in his own world having nobody with whom to discuss things and temper his weird "rabbit trail" views.
Just look at the Ted Kazinsky and "Liver-eating" Johnson types ! They both started out OK..but..

Swampman · « **Reply #227 on:** August 25, 2011, 06:52:19 AM »

What I believe is what every Christian believed in the 1600s & 1700s before the church started teaching whatever brought in the most money as they do today.

dukkillr · « **Reply #228 on:** August 25, 2011, 07:30:57 AM »

A few of you are talking in circles. This topic is about abortion, not Swampman's personal religion. Lets steer it back on topic so it doesn't get locked.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #229 on:** August 25, 2011, 07:42:49 AM »

the topiC is ''ABORTION''

most of the post are quotes and debates from the BIBLE

yet NOT one person has quoted the BIBLE

Swampman · « **Reply #230 on:** August 25, 2011, 08:19:16 AM »

My point is a fetus can't be aborted unless God allows it. He killed all the first born in Egypt. He wiped out the entire world save 8 in Noah's day. He wiped out 2 million people in Sodom & Gomrah. He does what he wants and we can't question it.

Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

I have no religion...thank God!

powderman · « **Reply #231 on:** August 25, 2011, 08:21:29 AM »

Quote from: dukkillr on August 25, 2011, 07:30:57 AM

A few of you are talking in circles. This topic is about abortion, not Swampman's personal religion. Lets steer it back on topic so it doesn't get locked.

OK duk, I'm done with this one, but the posts are relevant since swampy says that abortion is Gods will or it wouldn't be happening. POWDERMAN.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #232 on:** August 25, 2011, 08:23:28 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 25, 2011, 08:19:16 AM

Romans 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy."

I have no religion...thank God!

what does this mean ? and where did you hear it?

willith and runneth are words i don't hear
what language is it

sounds like ''old english''....a language i do not speak
if it is old english....what dialect is it??
not to be confused with the english language we speak today

was this a quote from the ''bible''?
in its original language?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #233 on:** August 25, 2011, 08:32:08 AM »

things like abortion happen when there is a lack of God . As for the op well either we have the right to life or not under the consitution.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #234 on:** August 25, 2011, 08:43:15 AM »

Quote from: powderman on August 25, 2011, 08:21:29 AM

Quote from: dukkillr on August 25, 2011, 07:30:57 AM
A few of you are talking in circles. This topic is about abortion, not Swampman's personal religion. Lets steer it back on topic so it doesn't get locked.

OK duk, I'm done with this one, but the posts are relevant since swampy says that abortion is Gods will or it wouldn't be happening. POWDERMAN.

my point has to do with abortion

the bible every one quotes was not even writen in old english...
[ a language we don't even speak]

it was at one time translated into old english by someone commissioned by a KING
in england with a political agenda

now folks are interpreting old english
to promote a political agenda
and use government to impose their will on others
that interpret it differently....or not at all

is this thread about abortion as a moral issue?
or is it about abortion as a legal issue?

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #235 on:** August 25, 2011, 09:28:30 AM »

There are other versions taken from the original Greek and Hebrew, like the New International Version. Say's the same thing, just in more modern English. There is also the New King James version.

dukkillr · « **Reply #236 on:** August 25, 2011, 11:21:25 AM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on August 25, 2011, 08:43:15 AM

is this thread about abortion as a moral issue?
or is it about abortion as a legal issue?

A surprising number of people can't figure out how to distinguish between the two. To them, something that is immoral must also be illegal.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #237 on:** August 25, 2011, 01:59:58 PM »

Quote from: dukkillr on August 25, 2011, 07:30:57 AM

A few of you are talking in circles. This topic is about abortion, not Swampman's personal religion. Lets steer it back on topic so it doesn't get locked.

Swampman stated earlier that he is not a "Religious" person he is a "Christian". Apparently there is a very specific definition standard that we are suppose to follow in this regard.

I'll also note for what is worth that we all have to "read the bible". He has stated this many times now.

Swampman · « **Reply #238 on:** August 25, 2011, 03:36:21 PM »

You don't have to read it, but if you're gonna say I'm wrong you need a benchmark.

ironglow · « **Reply #239 on:** August 25, 2011, 04:52:54 PM »

Quote from: 45-70.gov on August 25, 2011, 08:43:15 AM

Quote from: powderman on August 25, 2011, 08:21:29 AM
Quote from: dukkillr on August 25, 2011, 07:30:57 AM
A few of you are talking in circles. This topic is about abortion, not Swampman's personal religion. Lets steer it back on topic so it doesn't get locked.

OK duk, I'm done with this one, but the posts are relevant since swampy says that abortion is Gods will or it wouldn't be happening. POWDERMAN.

my point has to do with abortion

the bible every one quotes was not even writen in old english...
[ a language we don't even speak]

it was at one time translated into old english by someone commissioned by a KING
in england with a political agenda

now folks are interpreting old english
to promote a political agenda
and use government to impose their will on others
that interpret it differently....or not at all

is this thread about abortion as a moral issue?
or is it about abortion as a legal issue?

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45-70;
You can rest easy...your concern about our present Bible being contaminated by old English is a non-issue. The reliable versions have gone back as far as possible and have been translated from the original Hebrew, Aramaic and koine Greek Many top scholars over the years have checked and rechecked every word, jot and tittle. There is no real debate among them, but what the best translations of today are true to the word.
Yes, the King James version has been "modernized" and updated over the years to keep with current idiom and many issues of it show the updates (most some time ago). If you don't think so, try reading Geoffrey Chaucer ?
We also have "interlinears" where we can utilize the great store of knowledge of the linguists as they interpret directly from the original languages the Scriptures were written in. Here, directlyfrom Hebrew:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm
As far as your question as to whether most here are looking at abortion from a moral or legal angle, I call your attention to their posts... in backing their points, they have made reference to the Bible repeatedly and often. I don't recall a single poster referring to Blackstone's or other law authority..

...Obviously, it's a moral issue to most here.