Author Topic: abortion (Read 22522 times)

billy_56081 · « **Reply #240 on:** August 25, 2011, 06:03:56 PM »

Murder is not only immoral but also illegal, I see no difference between murder and abortion, accept a good percentage of murder victims are deserving. If anyone ever serves on a jury where someone killed a baby killer use your power and vote not guilty.

Swampman · « **Reply #241 on:** August 26, 2011, 12:28:23 AM »

This is about abortion not killing babies.

ironglow · « **Reply #242 on:** August 26, 2011, 01:19:53 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 26, 2011, 12:28:23 AM

This is about abortion not killing babies.
[/quote
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Swampy;
You just lost most of the credibility you ever had...

Swampman · « **Reply #243 on:** August 26, 2011, 02:44:24 AM »

If I ever had any, I didn't want it. I state the facts. It's up to you what you do with them.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #244 on:** August 26, 2011, 05:46:06 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 26, 2011, 02:44:24 AM

If I ever had any, I didn't want it.

I think the previous poster was correct and so are these words as stated by yourself.

Swampman · « **Reply #245 on:** August 26, 2011, 08:24:53 AM »

Unlike most, I'm not a man pleaser. The opinions of men matter little. Facts are facts.

powderman · « **Reply #246 on:** August 26, 2011, 08:57:12 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on August 26, 2011, 01:19:53 AM

Quote from: Swampman on August 26, 2011, 12:28:23 AM
This is about abortion not killing babies.
[/quote
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Swampy;
You just lost most of the credibility you ever had...

YEP. POWDERMAN.

Swampman · « **Reply #247 on:** August 26, 2011, 09:11:11 AM »

Yawn....

DDZ · « **Reply #248 on:** August 26, 2011, 12:48:53 PM »

Abortion is both immoral and illegal. I guess if you consider a preborn as a non living human, then I guess you can see it as legal and moral. I think we all agree that killing a innocent human is murder. So to make abortion legal and moral we have to determine that a preborn is not human nor living.
Signs of life include cell division, movement, growth, heartbeat, brain waves, breathing etc.. Upon conception cell division begins. As early as 21 days after conception a heartbeat is detected, so if this is true the preborn is living?
So if its living, and every living being belongs to a species, what is it when two humans conceive. Never in history has a man and a women produced anything but a human being. So I think we can also determine that a preborn is a human. So we have a living human being inside its mother.
Can one of you pro abortion people explain to us how abortion is not murder, or how its moral. Duk, maybe you can explain to us since you say that a large number of people can't distinguish between what is illegal and what is immoral. You say since we see it as immoral then it must be illegal. Maybe tell us why abortion is not both. How about you swampy? From your posts it indicates that you believe abortion is not murder. Maybe you can tell us why its not. Maybe some explanation more in depth than one sentence.
To view abortion as anything but murder, I figure other agendas are involved, like convenience, or money, and to use any of those excuses for abortion is very much both immoral, and murder.

Swampman · « **Reply #249 on:** August 26, 2011, 12:55:53 PM »

Until it breathes on it's own it doesn't have "the breath of life". It may be living cells but that's it.
"Let he that hath no sin cast the first stone." In other words we need to mind our own business.
It may be immoral, but that's not our problem or business.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #250 on:** August 26, 2011, 01:02:22 PM »

the baby is breathing in and out, it's an oxygenated liquid in the womb and don't say the baby would drown. floooding the lungs is done all the time when a lot of oxygen is needed.

Shu · « **Reply #251 on:** August 26, 2011, 01:26:27 PM »

I guess we would have to define when the baby is alive. To me it is the moment of conception. To others it is not. Some say 18 days others say different.
Next we would have to define immoral and illeagal. Since morality is more of non legal issue, it could be argued by spiritaul people. Legality is of course decided by the community and made into codified law.
Here lies our problem. Codified law recognizes the baby in the womb as a life. Medical proffesionals don't always. So which way do we lean towards leagality. I say always error on the side of life. Here we have codified law that contradicts itself. That is an issue also.
Being male it is hard for me to tell a woman what she should do with her body, in case of rape , incest or life threatening issues, hopefully she wouldn't have to go this alone.
We should educate ourselves, there are many good resources available and in the end our concsience will have to be our guide. To me abortion is murder, to others it won't be. In the end the person carrying the child makes that decison.
Abortion as a form of birth control... don't get me started.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #252 on:** August 26, 2011, 01:54:09 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 26, 2011, 08:24:53 AM

The opinions of men matter little.

We'll have to keep this in mind when we read your next post.

ironglow · « **Reply #253 on:** August 26, 2011, 02:30:02 PM »

Quote from: Cabin4 on August 26, 2011, 01:54:09 PM

Quote from: Swampman on August 26, 2011, 08:24:53 AM
The opinions of men matter little.

We'll have to keep this in mind when we read your next post.

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I rather wonder if the opinion of God means anything to him either. I asked for a commentary from him concerning (Proverbs 31:8&9). Most well studied Christians welcome an opportunity to go "expository' !

Swampman · « **Reply #254 on:** August 26, 2011, 03:26:30 PM »

And I gave you one.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #255 on:** August 30, 2011, 04:01:00 AM »

It is always funny how these abortion topics go . Either you are for them or not. Most who are not stand on moral ground or the consitution with regard to life. Those for it in one way or another try to work personal freedom of the woman . They feel her freedom of choice is to kill a baby not engage in making a baby . I think it boils down to selfishness . So for the OP yes it does destory our way of life.

powderman · « **Reply #256 on:** August 30, 2011, 04:22:01 AM »

SHOOTALL. Good post Sir. It all boils down to folks who have high moral standards and Christian values, and those who don't. Pro life?? Or pro death, theres no in between. POWDERMAN.

Swampman · « **Reply #257 on:** August 30, 2011, 05:29:42 AM »

There's no baby to kill, until a baby breathes on it's own. I'm pro-life once it breathes.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #258 on:** August 30, 2011, 05:32:17 AM »

Like I said Swampman in another forum, we don't have to worry about you "talking out of both sides of your mouth".

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #259 on:** August 30, 2011, 05:42:46 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 30, 2011, 05:29:42 AM

There's no baby to kill, until a baby breathes on it's own. I'm pro-life once it breathes.

so if you had a grand child born but in need of a resporator for say a couple weeks its not alive until removed from the machine and can breath on its own ? The host/mother breathes for it until birth .

ironglow · « **Reply #260 on:** August 30, 2011, 05:45:36 AM »

In his post# 250, swampy says;

" In other words we need to mind our own business. It may be immoral, but that's not our problem or business".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Swampy;
Does that also apply to lying, cheating, stealing and other murders beyond abortion ? If so..where does the Christian duty of being "salt" come in ?
"
“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet". (Matthew 5:13)

It seems like your theology is one of complete detatchment and inaction... how's it feel being "underfoot"..

Swampman · « **Reply #261 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:07:19 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 30, 2011, 05:42:46 AM

so if you had a grand child born but in need of a resporator for say a couple weeks its not alive until removed from the machine and can breath on its own ?

Correct...

It has to have "the breath of life" in other words it has to breath on it's own. Before that it is part of the mother's life.

Swampman · « **Reply #262 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:08:22 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on August 30, 2011, 05:45:36 AM

... how's it feel being "underfoot"..

How does it feel to be in God's way?

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #263 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:22:11 AM »

I think Swampy is into "Predistination Theology". I've been in churches like that. From Gods perspective it is true. He knows everything that is going to happen. HOWEVER WE DON'T. There is another side taught in scripture. Being the Salt of the Earth is one. Going into all the world and preach the Gospel (good news) about Jesus coming to save us. I know "works" won't save us, but we are told to do good works. If it weren't for the Christians in the world, the end would have already come. Swampy just needs to flip the coin over and look at the other side. It has been my experience that people who are caught up in the predistination are no earthly good. Then there are people who are so caught up in good works, they forget the spiritual. It takes balance and wisdom to walk and live the Christian life. It is not for us to know who is predistinated and for ordained to eternal life. We know what they are supposed to do and how they are supposed to live, but we really don't know their hearts, only God does. So, we have to take it by faith if someone is saved and/or how they look at the world through a Christian Perspective. Therefore, abortion is murder according to scripture and those who are pro-life are showing signs of being true Christians.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #264 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:45:43 AM »

you can debate and argue the facts all you want

but to say your BELEIF is right and someone elses BELEIF is wrong
makes some one look foolish and narrow minded

if you call it FAITH then you shouldn't need to PROVE IT

i think every one here BELIEVES what they BELIEVE

so in fact YOU ARE ALL CORRECT
i do not have a problem with any ones belief
i do have a problem when i see some one suggesting the force of government
to impose their belief on other people and taking my tax money to do so

Swampman · « **Reply #265 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:55:08 AM »

Ephesians 1:11 "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,"

http://bible.cc/romans/8-30.htm

The church will place a heavy yoke upon you. That's isn't the light and easy yoke of Christanity. Flee religion....it's not of God. We needn't concern ourselves with this world, because we are not of this world.

ironglow · « **Reply #266 on:** August 30, 2011, 07:05:14 AM »

Swampy;
I can see why you don't get along in any local church... you might try the Unitarians though...

powderman · « **Reply #267 on:** August 30, 2011, 07:10:23 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on August 30, 2011, 07:05:14 AM

Swampy;
I can see why you don't get along in any local church... you might try the Unitarians though...

IRONGLOW. YEP.
DIXIE DUDE. Another good post Sir. POWDERMAN.

Swampman · « **Reply #268 on:** August 30, 2011, 07:12:52 AM »

Abortion isn't murder. I doubt it's a moral practice, but the Bible doesn't address it.

Churches are great places for socializing. I enjoy looking at the outsides of the old churches.

I think of them as grave yards. I love walking around and looking at the graves, but I don't wish to be in one.

Sadly they are up to everything but following the scripture and teaching the gospel.

I hope nobody takes that personally. I'm not against the people, just the systems.

ironglow · « **Reply #269 on:** August 30, 2011, 07:18:24 AM »

Too bad your experiences are so negative...but keep in mind a "church" is not a building. Except in very egregious cases, I won't stand in judgement of the many fine folks who worship as such.
I don't have ALL the answers and I doubt any man (in the flesh) does !