abortion

[Swampman]

Who provided you with this guidance?

I've been reading the Bible for 50 years.  Every modern church is founded on the teachings of men who taught and believed the same thing I do.  The problem is they no longer teach it because the people would realize they don't need a church.  The church would go bankrupt and lose control of the people.  Free will is a form of bondage.  Predestination sets you free.  The light and easy yoke of Christ is so much better than the heavy burden that a preacher will place upon you.

[Cabin4]

Who provided you with this guidance?

I've been reading the Bible for 50 years.  Every modern church is founded on the teachings of men who taught and believed the same thing I do.  The problem is they no longer teach it because the people would realize they don't need a church.  The church would go bankrupt and lose control of the people.  Free will is a form of bondage.  Predestination sets you free.  The light and easy yoke of Christ is so much better than the heavy burden that a preacher will place upon you.

Do you claim to be more than just a man?

[Swampman]

If I did, I'd be a liar like the rest of the church elders that do.

[Cabin4]

If I did, I'd be a liar like the rest of the church elders that do.

Do you/did you provide this guidance to your kids if you had any?

[nw_hunter]

If I did, I'd be a liar like the rest of the church elders that do.

Do you/did you provide this guidance to your kids if you had any?

We really need to get back on topic, which is..........."That ugly word" Abortion!
Perhaps Swampman could start a new thread about Predestination, since the topic has moved in that direction.

[Swampman]

If I did, I'd be a liar like the rest of the church elders that do.

Do you/did you provide this guidance to your kids if you had any?

My children and grandchildren believe what the Bible says.
 

[Swampman]

IMO all this is on topic.  However I have nothing more to say on the matter, and an angel from heaven couldn't change my mind because he'd be contrary to God's Word if he tried.

[powderman]

hunter. Yes, the topic is abortion, most of  us say it's wrong, Swampman says it doesn't exist for Gods elect. In my opinion Swampman is totally wrong and way off base, but I also must say that I believe that he really means what he says. He quotes scripture and give HIS OPINION as to what it means. Many, if not most of his interpretations of scripture are taken way out of context, thats in my opinion. I don't believe he says these things to be mean or arguementative. In this sense predestination and abortion are one and the same topic. I see no reason to lock it again. Theres been no name calling or anybody disrespected that I've seen and I'm not aware of any broken rules. As volatile as this topic can be I believe that everyone here has conducted themselves like respectable adults. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  I agree with powderman, but I must add that we have worked both over until they are dog-eared with wear, so I won't be spending much time her.
   I believe Swampy is sincerely, but I also believe he is sincerely wrong..but that's just my $ .02....

[nw_hunter]

hunter. Yes, the topic is abortion, most of  us say it's wrong, Swampman says it doesn't exist for Gods elect. In my opinion Swampman is totally wrong and way off base, but I also must say that I believe that he really means what he says. He quotes scripture and give HIS OPINION as to what it means. Many, if not most of his interpretations of scripture are taken way out of context, thats in my opinion. I don't believe he says these things to be mean or arguementative. In this sense predestination and abortion are one and the same topic. I see no reason to lock it again. Theres been no name calling or anybody disrespected that I've seen and I'm not aware of any broken rules. As volatile as this topic can be I believe that everyone here has conducted themselves like respectable adults. POWDERMAN. 

I didn't mention conduct........I mentioned getting off topic PM!! It's plain to see see Swamp isn't going to change his mind or anyone else on the forum. Just keep it on topic or start a new one on predestination.

[powderman]

hunter.  You can't seem to see that the topics are intertwined and relevant. You got your way, I'm through with this.  POWDERMAN. 

[Cabin4]

I agree with PM. The subjects are intertwined. I don't understand the quest for topic purity. This is a talk forum not a filing system.

[BUGEYE]

I agree with PM. The subjects are intertwined. I don't understand the quest for topic purity. This is a talk forum not a filing system.

I agree.

[Lost Farmboy]

 

I have to agree with the crowd. This time at least they are intertwined. I am trying to understand Swampman's point of view. The problem I am having is the scriptures he uses seem to not have anything to do with his conclusions. But somehow he thinks they do.

[Casull]

I have to agree with the crowd. This time at least they are intertwined. I am trying to understand Swampman's point of view. The problem I am having is the scriptures he uses seem to not have anything to do with his conclusions. But somehow he thinks they do.

 
Lost Farmboy, I've been thinking the exact same thing.  Sometimes tough to figure someone out when they give nothing but conclusions with no logic as to how they got there.

[DDZ]

Yes many of us are trying to understand what Swampman's beliefs are. Understanding how God wants us to live is not deciphered from a few scriptures, but from reading the whole Bible and knowing God,s character. Knowing God's character tells us that He has given man free will, and that He does not want us killing His children through abortion. For they are truly a gift from God. Taking scripture out of context is done often to suit ones needs or wants. Knowing God's character generally helps with understanding the scripture.   
Anyone that has seen a sonogram of a baby inside its mother and can't conclude that there is a human life there, is not looking very hard.
We can only pray for Swampman that he continues to read the Bible, and that God will reveal the truth to him.         

[Swampman]

Good luck with working your way to heaven.  That whole idea came about in the 19th century.  It's a shame the churches have brainwashed folks into believing in free will even though it isn't Biblical.
 
God has revealed the truth to me.  From Gen 1:1 to Revelations every single verse teaches predestination.  Some to hell and some to heaven.

[SHOOTALL]

By that post you prove there is choice. Just as in abortion there is choice .

[Cabin4]

The contradictions just keep coming.

[DDZ]

 
 Just wondering Swampy, how do you twist these verse's into believing that it teaches predestination? I think these verse's teach a choice, with no indication at all of any predestination. Maybe you can offer your predestination insight on these verse's. Since you say from Gen 1:1 to Revelation, that every single verse teaches predestination.

God our Savior, who desires ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1 Timothy 2:4

Or this one.     
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9

Or this one.    For there is no distinction between Jew or Greek, for the same Lord over all, is rich to all who call upon him. For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:12

 No need for me to work my way to heaven, because work does not get you there. You should know that from reading the Bible for the last 50 years as you claim. From the way you talk, I assume you think you are one of the elect that gets to go to heaven. From your perspective how does one know if they are the elect that get to live in heaven with God? I guess in your mind that if we were not murdered in our mother's womb then we have a good shot at being one of the elect. Is that it? Or do we also have to have your beliefs? Just trying to figure out what your line of thinking is.
What I understand is that with predestination man does not have to live their life as God wants them to. What reason would there be, if you are one of the elect at birth? Sin is fun right? Why not just sin away? Why bother repenting of any sins? In your belief you are either elected for heaven or hell, so what does it matter how you live your life? Why am I not surprised that you can't find a church that fits your beliefs. 

[BUGEYE]

it's gonna be interesting to see how swamp addresses this post by DDZ.

[powderman]

it's gonna be interesting to see how swamp addresses this post by DDZ.

 
YEP. POWDERMAN. 

[Casull]

 

it's gonna be interesting to see how swamp addresses this post by DDZ.

   Kind of curious myself.  The scripture quoted sure does make Swampman's prior post look incorrect (as if any thought otherwise). 

[Swampman]

God our Savior, who desires ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1 Timothy 2:4

Of course he does.
     
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
 
Of course he isn't

Or this one.    For there is no distinction between Jew or Greek, for the same Lord over all, is rich to all who call upon him. For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:12
 
Only the elect can or will
There are lots of churches that teach what I believe nearly all of them did in the 18th century.  I just don't believe in churches.
 

[BUGEYE]

okay, he finally gave the right answer, he's not a Christian.

[Swampman]

I was a Christian before the foundation of the world.  I cannot leave it until I've done everything God knew I would do.  We are shot down a gun barrel and have no control over anything.  Quit worring about worldly matters, God doesn't want you to be concerned with them.
 
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

[BUGEYE]

swamp, you're a hoot    you just keep on believing that.

[Swampman]

I have no choice but to keep believing what God showed me.

[DDZ]

God our Savior, who desires ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1 Timothy 2:4

Of course he does.
     
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
 
Of course he isn't

Or this one.    For there is no distinction between Jew or Greek, for the same Lord over all, is rich to all who call upon him. For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:12
 
Only the elect can or will
There are lots of churches that teach what I believe nearly all of them did in the 18th century.  I just don't believe in churches.

I guess if its just going to be a few words of explanation, no use discussing this anymore. Kind of what I thought it would be anyway.

[DDZ]

I was a Christian before the foundation of the world.  I cannot leave it until I've done everything God knew I would do.  We are shot down a gun barrel and have no control over anything.  Quit worring about worldly matters, God doesn't want you to be concerned with them.
 
2 Timothy 1:9 who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

Gee, why should us Christians continue to spread the gospel, speak out against immorality, or try to be a good witness to Christ. Since we have no control over anything. Just go hide in the corner until you see if you are one of the lucky elect. I wonder why God would choose to send part of his creation to hell and be absent of Him?