Author Topic: abortion (Read 22604 times)

Cabin4 · « **Reply #390 on:** September 04, 2011, 07:21:56 PM »

Predestination is Calvinist Theology teaching from John Calvin, a man. I thought you don't listen to teachings of Man?

Predestination? How do you explain these?
Joshua 24:15 "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

Ezekiel 18:32 "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the LORD. Repent and live!"

Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

Romans 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #391 on:** September 05, 2011, 01:54:39 AM »

Predistination is TRUE, from God's perspective. He sees everything from begining to end. Time doesn't exist with God. He is beyond time. Now, this is only one side of the same coin. We live on the other. We have to choose salvation. We choose to kill unborn babies. We choose to sin or not to sin. That is our side. Swampman is so caught up on Gods side of the coin, he can't see the coin from our side, the human side, what God want's us to see and do. Otherwise we do nothing, and just let Satan have his way with humanity. Scripture supports BOTH sides. Can't get caught up on one side or the other. Things that are beyond our control, or our reach, we have to let God work it out. The other side is we do what we can to be salt and light on the earth, such as fighting abortion. by voting for the right people, trying to change laws to protect the unborn.

Swampman · « **Reply #392 on:** September 05, 2011, 01:56:04 AM »

Cabin4 only the elect can and will do those things.

John Clavin just taught what the Bible says as did all preachers of his day. He followed Christ's teachings just like me. I don't follow or even care what John Calvin taught. Martin Luther was even stronger on predestinaton than Calvin for what it's worth. All Baptist taught predestination in the 1600s and it was spelled out in their written church doctrines.

You can never love your enemies or pray for those who despitefully use you until you realize it isn't their fault. They are doing God's will. Perfect peace only comes from accepting predestination. His yoke is easy and his burden is light. The church doesn't want you to accept this as it means you don't need them. It actually allows you to have a personal relationship with Christ. Just put your hand in his and follow him. Your will is eminity againt God's. You can't be good because you are a human and there is no good in you. Even if you could be good God wouldn't accept it.

Romans 8:7 "Because the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. "

"all our righteous acts are as filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6)

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #393 on:** September 05, 2011, 03:44:03 AM »

If everybody was doing God's will, Jesus would not have taught his disciples to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven. They were not all doing God's will then and they are not all doing God's will now. It surely is not God's will for innocent babies to be killed before they are born or after they are born.

If you really want to follow Christ it would be better to prey for God's will to be done on earth as it is in heaven than to say every bad thing that happens is God's will.

Swampman · « **Reply #394 on:** September 05, 2011, 04:17:04 AM »

Everything that happens is God's will or he isn't God at all.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." John Owen

kmittleman · « **Reply #395 on:** September 06, 2011, 06:46:12 PM »

Just wanted to point out some hipocracy on the liberals' side of all of this. Firstly, isn't it strange that the left is so anti gun / military, yet when it comes to killing some unborn child they feel it's totally fine? Second, the left often brings up the word "choice". I know this isn't a simple, clear cut issue, but what about all of the "choices" that were made prior to the couple getting pregnant? If a young lady / couple makes all of these irresponsible choices that lead to an unwanted pregnancy, why should they be given the opportunity to make yet another bad choice and kill the baby?

-Kevin

BUGEYE · « **Reply #396 on:** September 07, 2011, 02:33:40 AM »

Quote from: kmittleman on September 06, 2011, 06:46:12 PM

Just wanted to point out some hipocracy on the liberals' side of all of this. Firstly, isn't it strange that the left is so anti gun / military, yet when it comes to killing some unborn child they feel it's totally fine? Second, the left often brings up the word "choice". I know this isn't a simple, clear cut issue, but what about all of the "choices" that were made prior to the couple getting pregnant? If a young lady / couple makes all of these irresponsible choices that lead to an unwanted pregnancy, why should they be given the opportunity to make yet another bad choice and kill the baby?

-Kevin

we can only pray that things will change in favor of the innocent baby.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #397 on:** September 07, 2011, 03:17:53 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 05, 2011, 04:17:04 AM

Everything that happens is God's will or he isn't God at all.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." John Owen

Where does it say his will is not to allow choice ?

XD40SC · « **Reply #398 on:** September 07, 2011, 03:51:48 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 05, 2011, 04:17:04 AM

Everything that happens is God's will or he isn't God at all.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." John Owen
[/quot
quote]
God wants us to be good in all things , but he has also given us free will. If all the bad things that happen in the world are God's will, where do the Devil and his evil doings fit in?

ironglow · « **Reply #399 on:** September 07, 2011, 03:54:34 AM »

Swampy; You say you heed the bible..not man. Then you post this ? ....

Everything that happens is God's will or he isn't God at all.
"To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect." John Owen ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ kevin..You are correct! Many choices are available, long before the fatal one.. Whether to indulge in procreation, whether to indulge in it with somebody whose child they wouldn't want, whether to use the pill, a condom, or other preventive devices, whether to keep or adopt out the child, or choose to punish the child for adult's mistakes.

ironglow · « **Reply #400 on:** September 07, 2011, 04:27:28 AM »

As far as the discussion concerning predeterminism vs free will, let's bring more light and less heat to the subject. Let us not do as the liberals do and toss logic and common sense out the window.
Both John Calvin and Jacobus Arminius put forward their thoughts on Jesus and salvation, but those were THEIR thoughts and not graven in scripture. Let's go to our best source..Jesus himself..
Jesus himself and his apostles went throughout the countryside gathering all they could who would listen. There is no hint of sorting the "elect" from the "rabble" ! In (Luke 14) we have a parable, picturing the 'Wedding Supper of the Lamb".
Jesus takes supper at the house of a pharisee (lawyer); these pharisees considered themselves as special or select, 'elect' if you will.

In (vs 2-4) a sick man (we are 'sin-sick') asks for help. Jesus heals (saves) him..the pharisees say Jesus is wrong. In (vs 5) Jesus explains how he saves those who need it.

IN (vs 7-15) Jesus makes it clear that this is a parable of the wedding supper. The pharisees tried to restrict just who was allowed to attend..allowing "special places for special, chosen souls.

In fact, in (vs 11) Jesus said whoever 'exalts' himself in such a manner, shall be 'abased'.

In (vs 13) he makes it clear the honored places will NOT be given to those who think they deserve a special position.

Jesus goes on in a second parable of the same subject (vs 22,23) ..don't just accept the invited guests..many of them were so "smug-sure" of their position that they missed the wedding supper...so "go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in".. (the Holy spirit does the compelling)

Where in all the gospels, did the apostles gather at the gates or doors and sort the elect from the non-elect. Was it at the 'Sermon on the Mount'... was it on the 'Day of Pentecost' ...or was it done in the earliest churches..Corinth, laodicea, Philipi or Sardis ?
I think not... and I don't believe God has a caste system, including Brahmins and "untouchables".

(pardon the color mix..my PC is acting color blind..

)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #401 on:** September 07, 2011, 04:35:30 AM »

If there was /is no choice then why heaven and hell ? Why was Jesus sent ?

Swampman · « **Reply #402 on:** September 07, 2011, 05:00:13 AM »

Heaven is for the elect. Hell is for the non-elect (who never were and cannot be God's children) Jesus was sent to redeem the world from it's curse.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #403 on:** September 07, 2011, 05:06:49 AM »

IG, some people will let their stubborness stand in the way of salvation.
I would not want this kind of person interpreting a technical manual or reading a blueprint for me.

the Bible is pretty simple for people who are searching for salvation.

ironglow · « **Reply #404 on:** September 07, 2011, 05:18:56 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 07, 2011, 05:00:13 AM

Heaven is for the elect. Hell is for the non-elect (who never were and cannot be God's children) Jesus was sent to redeem the world from it's curse.

*************************************************************************
Sorry Swampy; You better get back into the Bible..

"Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God". (John 1:12)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #405 on:** September 07, 2011, 05:19:14 AM »

we were warned to stay clear of false churches ............

Swampman · « **Reply #406 on:** September 07, 2011, 05:32:17 AM »

All churches are false that's why I stay away from them.

Nobody is searching for salvation. The shepherd had 100 sheep one became lost and he went and found it. He then had the 100 sheep he always had.

Only the elect can believe or receive. Others may think they do and have but they don't and haven't.

If God knows everything and always has then he can't not know who his children are. He's not concerned with the "children of the wicked one."

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #407 on:** September 07, 2011, 05:43:42 AM »

what happens when a sheep is born or a stray is found ?

Swampman · « **Reply #408 on:** September 07, 2011, 05:59:08 AM »

God knew the sheep that would be born before the foundation of the world which means it's one of the 100. A sheep can stray but it always was, is, and always be God's sheep. God has no interest in the neighbors sheep.

ironglow · « **Reply #409 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:03:04 AM »

Go ahead Swampy.. Think....Those of us who reached out to Jesus, by your own admission must have been 'predestined' to be saved ! However the Bible also tells us (1 John 5:13) that we may KNOW we have eternal life..and (vs 10-15) explains how.
How do you KNOW you have eternal life..or are you 'just guessing' ? On the other hand, if you "feel in your heart" that you are saved, set aside... (Jeremiah 17:9) tells us this..

King James Bible
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? (Jeremiah 17;9)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #410 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:04:11 AM »

his neighbor ? hum so now you say there are more than one God ?
Maybe that is why we don't agree as I believe in only one God.

ironglow · « **Reply #411 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:08:47 AM »

yeah...Who IS that neighboring god ?

XD40SC · « **Reply #412 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:11:49 AM »

Swampman- I would like your take on the following--If all the bad things that happen in the world are God's will, where do the Devil and his evil doings fit in?

Swampman · « **Reply #413 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:14:43 AM »

^{Matthew 13}
³⁶Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
³⁷He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; ³⁸The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; ³⁹The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. ⁴⁰As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

ironglow · « **Reply #414 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:15:13 AM »

Good question XD... Even the angels have "free will"...and Lucifer abused his..just as anyone can !

Swampman · « **Reply #415 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:15:51 AM »

Quote from: XD40SC on September 07, 2011, 06:11:49 AM

Swampman- I would like your take on the following--If all the bad things that happen in the world are God's will, where do the Devil and his evil doings fit in?

The devil can only do what God allows him to do.

Swampman · « **Reply #416 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:18:30 AM »

For what it's worth, I neither know nor care if I'm elect. I simply trust in Jesus Christ to do whatever he wishes with me or to me.

I do the best I can and expect nothing in return for it.

XD40SC · « **Reply #417 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:47:48 AM »

Swampman- another question. If God is the cause of all behaviors- How can a person be convicted of, say murder and be found guilty? He is doing what God commands and is therefore innocent.

Swampman · « **Reply #418 on:** September 07, 2011, 06:57:59 AM »

None are innocent. We are born in sin and shapen in iniquity. Murder isn't sin, it's a symptom of sin which is unbelief.

XD40SC · « **Reply #419 on:** September 07, 2011, 07:13:44 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on September 07, 2011, 06:57:59 AM

None are innocent. We are born in sin and shapen in iniquity. Murder isn't sin, it's a symptom of sin which is unbelief.

So according you- God causes sin and he also causes unbelief.