Roadside Checkpoints - what is their purpose?

[OldSchoolRanger]

I am actually suprised you ran into one in California.  Most places have stopped running them as they were catching mostly illegals.  The City of Santa Rosa had to stop the check points as they are a sanctuary city and were arresting nothing but illegals either drunk about 50 a month as well as impounding cars for no registration or insurance about 150 a month.  Upholding the law is only good when they can make money and will use every thing to do so.  I will bet if you and simply rolled down your window and said "noo, no no" in a spanish accent with marachi music in the back ground, they would have just waived you through, so as not to deal with the hastle. 
I often wonder if I argued in court that I can ignore laws if I would get away with it?  Clearly congress and state legislatures make laws that we have to follow, but allow non citizens to break those laws.  Not talking about diplomats, but people that their first act to enter the country is knowingly breaking 3 to 5 state and federal laws.  If a non citizen is allowed to pick 3to 5 state and federal laws to  break why, under the 14th amendment, am I not allowed to ignore 3 to 5 laws I deem irrelevant?

mcwoodduck - Sales of Mariachi music CD's just went gold!

Avoid the searches by being polite and saying " I DO NOT CONSENT TO ANY SEARCHES" refusal of a search does not give probable cause.
Then when detained simply ask " AM I UNDER ARREST OR AM I FREE TO GO"   they have to charge you or let you go it is the law. 


If you don't know how to talk to them and let them know that you KNOW YOUR RIGHTS they will keep you there as long as it takes for you to slip up or them to get tired of playing with you.


Here in Alabama we have them every where to include one every Friday and Saturday night just up the road. I have been through it about 40 or 50 times now and the above has worked every time.


Matt

Matt - You have the correct attitude.  Remember people, be polite, when you are asserting your rights. 

[jlwilliams]

I just ran into a sort of non-roadblock checkpoint.  Interesting and related, so I'll tell the tale.
 
 RI has just upgraded driving without a seat belt to a primary offense.  Used to be they would ticket you for no seat belt if they pulled you over for something else but couldn't pull you over for it alone.  It was thought that the police were using "I thought he didn't have a seat belt" to cover for racial profiling.  I never believed that, but the legislature did.  Anyway, they can now pull you over for it and are pressing it hard to raise awareness and get people buckled up.
 
  What I ran into was a few State Troopers pulled along the side of a wide exit ramp  off of I-95 at a big WalMart shopping center.  Always a buisy exit ramp.  There were a couple of them standing outside their cars looking at the cars that had to come to a stop (stop sign at the end of the ramp, plenty of time to see into each car right after they pulled off the highway and when they weren't expecting the poice looking into their cars).  They just walked up and asked the un-belted drivers to pull onto the shoulder for their ticket.  Looked way safer than the road blocks they sometimes run.
 
  I do worry that some day they may have a road block set up and some vet recently home with bad PTSD may instincively respond to a road block with the sort of non-compliant driving that would keep them alive in Iraq but would be totaly inapropriate stateside.  By the time the adrenaline had cleared and the driver come to senses he may ram a police car and bad things that shouldn't happen would be already done.
 
  In general, I think the unconstitutional  traffic check points are all of the above.  Definitely fishing and a power play.  I behave politley because I'm a polite guy.  I don't like the practice but I don't see the scene itself as the apropriate place to make my point.  As a non drinker I don't worry about much but I politely decline to allow a search.  I figure if there is a good reason for them to search my car they won't be asking my permission.  If they need to ask, then I decline to participate in a fishing expidition designed to incriminate me.

[bubbinator]

I was a State Police Agt in Al during a major drug operation round up in Birmingham/Bessemer Al that lasted 3 weeks closing a year long under cover op by sate and fed narcs. We had arrest warrents for hundreds of people, search warrants for dozens of locations.  After the initial service of warrants the unarrested subjects were in the wind.  Over 400 Fed/State/County/Local LEOs set up check points to arrest the other fugitives.  In the process over 2 thousand cases of DUIs/uninsured drivers/outstanding warrants/No Driver's license/vehicle equipment violations were logged. Sure the local coffers got filled-Now Liberal lover-which of these scumbags removed from the street would you say it was ok to run over your child in your nieghborhood due a constitutional issue!! BTW-Not one case was tossed-all pled/found guilty!

[SHOOTALL]

How do you rationalize that anyone of those arrested would have run over a child ? That is a poor idea to remove more freedom .
 

[jlwilliams]

  Bubbinator, are you saying that the ends justify the means? 

[yellowtail3]

I was a State Police Agt in Al during a major drug operation round up in Birmingham/Bessemer Al that lasted 3 weeks closing a year long under cover op by sate and fed narcs.

ah... one of the many on the gov't tit known as the War on (some) Drugs.

In the process over 2 thousand cases of DUIs/uninsured drivers/outstanding warrants/No Driver's license/vehicle equipment violations were logged.

sounds like the Fishing Expedition landed a few! No season, no limits, no rules!

Sure the local coffers got filled-

purpose served, now going into your pocket...

Now Liberal lover

who?

-which of these scumbags removed from the street would you say it was ok to run over your child in your nieghborhood due a constitutional issue!!

hard to follow that reasoning, but I'll answer... it's not 'okay' for anyone to run over any of my kids, for any reason... just like it's not okay for jackboot LEOs to beat to death anyone (but it happens) or threaten to kill citizens (but it happens) or gun them down during one of their no-knock commando military missions

  Bubbinator, are you saying that the ends justify the means?

That is what it sounds like.

[OldSchoolRanger]

I was a State Police Agt in Al during a major drug operation round up in Birmingham/Bessemer Al that lasted 3 weeks closing a year long under cover op by sate and fed narcs.

ah... one of the many on the gov't tit known as the War on (some) Drugs.

YW - I disagree with you on this comment.  Would you rather have drug dealers and users run rampant where you live? We LEO's deal with these lowlifes on a regular basis.  If we don't, who will? You? 

In the process over 2 thousand cases of DUIs/uninsured drivers/outstanding warrants/No Driver's license/vehicle equipment violations were logged.

sounds like the Fishing Expedition landed a few! No season, no limits, no rules!

Sure the local coffers got filled-

purpose served, now going into your pocket...

YT - This particular situation was not a fishing expedition, the LEO's were after specific violators, everything else was IMO a bonus. 

Now Liberal lover

who?

YT - I really don't need to reply to this.  We each know how we feel, about this issue. 

[tcencore3006]

It appears to me that alot of guys on this have a sever problem with authority.  The police are doing what we pay them to do.  Yeah I know they only nab like 4% of those drinking while driving during these checkpoints.  Truthfully I almost wish they would do it more to stop the complete idiots who feel they need to drink and drive.  I also posses the right to be safe from these morons who should not be operating their vehicles.

[jlwilliams]

 Well, if not wanting to be stopped at a road block and invited to step out of the car so they can search my belongings on the premise that it's for the safety of all means I have a problem with authority then I guess I do.
 
  Before anybody points out that 'a man with nothing to hide has nothing to fear', I'd like to address that possition.  It's looking at the wrong end of the horse.  The purpose of a consented search is to look for something (anything) incriminating.  What is incriminating?  Hard to say.  If a crime was committed by a man in a certain hat and coat, then maybe your jacket in the back seat could help put your neck into someone elses noose (not all the way to the gallows, but certainly far enough to not want to go).  You just don't know.  Far fetche example but you get the drift.  That is why we have a right to abstain from self incrimination.  Because it's not your responsability to provide incrimnating evidence against yourself or to prove that there is no such evidence.  Consenting to a random search is a fool's choice.  It's one thing if you are a witness to a crime, the police as to search your vehicle (which is at the scene of the crime)  That makes sense.  They have a reason to look.  To ascertain if you are really a witness or if the loot is in your trunk.  Getting stopped at a DWI checkpoint and being asked to participate in a fishing expedition that is designed to incrimnate you is a whole different matter.  Do I have a problem with authority behaving that way?  Yes, I do.  The notion that agents of the state have an interest in and a right to randomly detain citizens (and a road block is exactly that) to scrutinize them on the possibilty that they may be breaking a law is un-American.
 
  "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" is the wrong way to see it.  The right way might be "if you have done nothing wrong why should you want to clear your concience by inviting them in to prove it?"
 

[Shu]

I got stopped at a security check point on base by the main gate. You are going to be searched regardless of of what you say or do. The night I got stopped was no big deal they were polite and proffesional,  I was released in about 5 minutes. Within site of the front gate the local PD was doing thier roadside stops. I politiely refused to let them search after providing license registration and proof of insurance.
One officer asked why I would let a bunch of rent a cops and military slugs search my car and not the proffesionals out in town. My reply is simple. I like them better than you. After his posturing and bluster and a yawn from me I was allowed to move on.
On base you have no choice, if you refuse you can look for new employment. In town no probable cuase no search.

[nw_hunter]

It appears to me that alot of guys on this have a sever problem with authority.  The police are doing what we pay them to do.  Yeah I know they only nab like 4% of those drinking while driving during these checkpoints.  Truthfully I almost wish they would do it more to stop the complete idiots who feel they need to drink and drive.  I also posses the right to be safe from these morons who should not be operating their vehicles.

NO! that is not what we pay them to do! They take an oath to uphold the Constitution. They are hired to protect and serve.Not  to harass, bully and extort.
You may find you only have the RIGHT to remain silent, when arrested at one of these stops for doing something (YOU) feel is within the law, but (THEY) don't.
Be very careful what you wish for!

[Dee]

It would be interesting I think to watch some here, that lump all police into the same pile, if there were no police at all. The result would be, you would not be able to go to work, to a restaurant, to the store (as there most likely wouldn't be any stores), and on and on.
These "cop haters", would instead be looking out the blinds, trying to guard their own possessions, and family, and wondering how they were going to get something to eat, OR, someone bigger, tougher, meaner, and stronger, would take their stuff away from them.
I think all 911 calls from these "cop haters" should be re-routed to their local "bar association". I'm sure they could litigate a better out come when a drunk kills a family member, or a rapist attacks your daughter, or a burglar steals you stuff while your trying to work.
I listen to this load of crap, while knowing that these "cop haters" have been allowed the privilege in this country, to go to work everyday, and enjoy life, while someone else does the dirty work, with out the slightest thought, that were it not for that "thin blue line" they would be fighting CONSTANTLY for survival in a world of chaos.
I have gone to funerals of FINE OFFICERS that gave their lives for someone they did not even know, and I myself, have stepped in front of a threat much bigger, than myself, and person, or persons, I was trying to protect.
I watched this same type of retoric on another thread, where even the moderators participated in the group slamming of all police officers.
Freedom ain't free, and neither is SAFETY. What an ungrateful, bigoted lot, some of you are, to judge all, for the failings of some.

[SHOOTALL]

Gone , have you had to deal with a policeman who was on a power high ?

[Dee]

Gone , have you had to deal with a policeman who was on a power high ?

SHOOTALL, have you had to deal with a murderer, whom was on a "drug induced high", with no pain threshold, or any thought of consequenses for his actions? Have you ever taken a confession from a rapist that tried to explain how the 6 month old girl "enjoyed it"? Have you ever investigated an accident where the person at fault was so drunk, he couldn't stand up by himself, and then watched a trial where his lawyer tried every way possible to defame the victim, and the officers investigating.
Have you ever tried to get a person out of a burning automobile before it explodes, and have the flames drive you OUT of the car, and you watch them burn. Have you ever held a teenagers head up, while they hung out a windshield and the paramedic was trying to get an air way down them so they could breath? Have you ever watched that same teenager die? 

[SHOOTALL]

Well A drunk driver hit my son , Was on site when a baby was found in a drainage pipe , another time when one was found in a water closet. As for drugs Yes I have had to deal with several who went on a rant tearing up stuff. Once I worked with a guy who bombed places , they arrested him on the jobsite. I have taken a knife from someone trying to cut me twice and a gun once . And other things have happened . So what does that have to do with it ? As citizens we are expected to be PC in all aspects of life . In many cases the acts you decribe and all from me were experinced by citizens long before LEO's arrived .
 LEO's take the job and know the deal before starting. If they can't stand the heat they should stay out the kitchen.
 I know things take a toll. I also know most LEO's are good at their job and some I know don't support the out of control ones nor would they stand up for them.
 There is a difference from taking control and being an abusive azz.

[Dee]

There is obviously no common ground here. At the beginning of the thread, which was actually about checkpoints, I gave an honest opinion, that might surprise many that know my background. This thread, like another, has turned into a verbal lynching of ALL police officers. Being as I, am whom I am, and the rest in this cyber lynch mob, are whom they are, and there is obviously no middle ground, I will take my place on the side of "law and order", thus also taking my place in line as the "corrupt power hungry" police, and depart, as I already had. I should not have returned as it was a mistake on my part. The only thing I seem to have in common with most on this thread is the outdoors, and guns. That is not enough to make it worth my while to stay.
I will leave, and ya'll can continue.

[SHOOTALL]

Gee , I posted about the ones out of line , guess some figure none get out of line. 

[huntducks]

I hunt ducks in SoCal 50mi north of the Mexcio border my truck has a camper shell and a raised bed in it with storage, most of the time i'm dressed in cammo while heading north and home I pass thru 1 BP check I make at least 10-12 trips down there a season and most of the time they want me to drop the tail gate on my truck to look in, so one trip while heading home I set up a pair of boots that made it look like someone was under the bed in the shell soon as I dropped the tail gate I could see the BP agent get a wood he new he made a bust he pulled one of the boots out then the other with this surprised look he asked me why they were like that I said because they were my wade boots and wet.

 I LMAO all the way home.
 
Check out the picture.
 
You can beleave all the sensors and xray infrared and measuring devices they have in both directions one BP guy told me they take a picture of your lic. plate while heading south and measure your truck height and when you come back north ever thing comes up on the screen soon as you get to them.
 

[jlwilliams]

  Done, how does being a hater of unconstituional roadblock checkpoints equal being a hater of all cops?  With all due respect (and nothing but respect) for those things you have done, what does that have to do with this?

[jlwilliams]

I addressed to 'Done"  Sorry, I meant Gone.  Looking back at your first post, I'm thinking that you didn't mean your last post to be directed at mine.  You seem to be anti roadblock too.
 
  Without the policce we would surely be in a bad place.  Looking at history, we all have to know that police powers have to be kept in line.  History is full of times and places where the law's iron fist over rode it's intended purpose.  Public safety can be replaced by public controll if a society lets it.  Please remember that voices raised against that possability aren't nessisarily 'cop haters'.  Without public outcry small oversteps of power can lead to bigger ones.  Lastly, as Patton said, "if everybody thinks alike, someone isn't thinking".  We aren't all going to agree all the time.
 
 

[Shu]

I have no problem with 99% of the police. There are a few bad apples in the bunch that screw it up for the professionals. I don't really care for the roadside check points. They do save lives becuase people are STUPID enough to drive drunk. Unfortunately we need a police department. I would be much happier if we didn't. That statement in no way should be taken out of context that I hate police. It is a statement on the condition of mankind.
I attended Riverside Sheriff's Academy in 1987. I was a LEO for 3 years. I decided this wasn't a career for me. My sergeant used to sit outside of bars to make DUI arrests he said it was shooting fish in a bucket. A few of the officers had an issue with the evidence locker (they thought the stuff inside was theirs) and there was a officer that would stop only female drivers.
One shouldn't take this as LEO bashing topic. I think people are more or less describing the negativity of a few bad apples. If you take it personally about the lack of professionalism of a few fellow officers maybe the spotlight needs to be turned on them to get them off the force. Most of the guys on the force are disgusted and ticked off about the behavior of the few who think they are above the law.

[SHOOTALL]

supper post SHU

[nw_hunter]

supper post SHU

 It was a good post, Shu!

Roadside checks are a policy problem in my opinion, We do, after all live in a country where everyone is presumed Innocent until proven guilty."RIGHT'?

A roadside check is like a roadside courtroom, and everyone is presumed guilty until they pass all the tests.There is something about this that doesn't seem to conform. I don't have a problem with a LEO observing traffic or a persons behavior and pulling them over if suspect.

Why stop at road checks? Why not just randomly stop pedestrians to see if they aren't wanted? Or check homes to see if there are any Child abusers, a joint on the premises, or someone impaired that might decide to drive later. A little preventive police work! To call people who believe roadside checks are wrong... "Cop Haters", is going a little too far! Don't you think?

[OldSchoolRanger]

..., so one trip while heading home I set up a pair of boots that made it look like someone was under the bed in the shell soon as I dropped the tail gate I could see the BP agent get a wood he new he made a bust he pulled one of the boots out then the other with this surprised look he asked me why they were like that I said because they were my wade boots and wet.

Check out the picture.
 
You can beleave all the sensors and xray infrared and measuring devices they have in both directions one BP guy told me they take a picture of your lic. plate while heading south and measure your truck height and when you come back north ever thing comes up on the screen soon as you get to them.

If that had been me checking your truck, I would have laughed as well.  Who would believe a body under there.    The feet are facing the wrong way,  unless you chopped them off.

[briarpatch]

If you refuse a search at a check point or other wise,will you be kept there all day waiting on dogs and warrents? This just to let you know who is in charge?

[OldSchoolRanger]

If you refuse a search at a check point or other wise,will you be kept there all day waiting on dogs and warrents? This just to let you know who is in charge?

The answer is No and No.

[briarpatch]

Oldschoolranger, you are sure and sure of this, because you have done it?
The last time I was stopped in a road check, was in Florida. Supposed to have been the largest the State had ever had. Probably 100 cops involved. If you turned around to go  back they ran you down. After the Inquisition when you went on your way, a few miles down the road there was about 10 cops on bikes pulling over, I guess, those that were speeding when they left the road check. Never seen so many blue lights in one place before.
Was not asked if I had been drinking but how many I had drunk to that point. I had just got off from work about 11pm. Had been at work since 630am and real tired.
While the cop asking was playing the part of king kong about 5 or 6 cops were shining flashlights in my car from all sides including the front blinding me.
King kong kept asking how much I had to drink until I asked him just what he thought he was doing. Never did answer just looked at my paper work and said go home.
The car was searched well by the flashlight crowd but I have thought if they wanted to search my car I would not have been going anywhere for a while if I said no.
 

[huntducks]

..., so one trip while heading home I set up a pair of boots that made it look like someone was under the bed in the shell soon as I dropped the tail gate I could see the BP agent get a wood he new he made a bust he pulled one of the boots out then the other with this surprised look he asked me why they were like that I said because they were my wade boots and wet.

Check out the picture.
 
You can beleave all the sensors and xray infrared and measuring devices they have in both directions one BP guy told me they take a picture of your lic. plate while heading south and measure your truck height and when you come back north ever thing comes up on the screen soon as you get to them.

If that had been me checking your truck, I would have laughed as well.  Who would believe a body under there.    The feet are facing the wrong way,  unless you chopped them off.

I made sure the boots were wrong one of the old timers that I have seen a number of times over the last 3-4 years started busting up he even took a picture with his phone guess everyone of the BP saw it because another guy joked with me the fallowing week (got any boots hiding)

[yellowtail3]

It would be interesting I think to watch some here, that lump all police into the same pile, if there were no police at all. The result would be, you would not be able to go to work, to a restaurant, to the store (as there most likely wouldn't be any stores), and on and on.

Oh, I doubt it would be all that bad. Make me down as in favor of order, and having a police force that does its job. Mark me as vehemently against abuse of citizens by cretins under the color of law, who do it because... they can, and they're accustomed to being able to behave in ways that would get me thrown in jail.

Anyhow... checkpoints are useful for generating revenue. They do train citizens to become complaint & accept whatever is handed to them, and they DEFINiITELY do generate business for the law. On occasion, I think they probably do some good, but not enough to justify routine, widespread use of the practice.

In unrelated news... in the case of the infamous Officer Dan Harless in Canton OH - the one that threatened to kill a citizen for carrying a weapon has had his union ride to the rescue... they're gonna delay the investigation until he feels better and gets over his purported PTSD. Remember - he is the officer who threatened to do the killing - would I even be alive if I talked to a cop, the way he talked to the citizen?? I wonder if the citizen he threatened to murder has PTSD as a result of his encounter with Officer Harless?

http://www.cantonrep.com/carousel/x549434878/Harless-hearing-postponed-police-union-cites-stress

[OldSchoolRanger]

Oldschoolranger, you are sure and sure of this, because you have done it?
The last time I was stopped in a road check, was in Florida. Supposed to have been the largest the State had ever had. Probably 100 cops involved. If you turned around to go  back they ran you down. After the Inquisition when you went on your way, a few miles down the road there was about 10 cops on bikes pulling over, I guess, those that were speeding when they left the road check. Never seen so many blue lights in one place before.
Was not asked if I had been drinking but how many I had drunk to that point. I had just got off from work about 11pm. Had been at work since 630am and real tired.
While the cop asking was playing the part of king kong about 5 or 6 cops were shining flashlights in my car from all sides including the front blinding me.
King kong kept asking how much I had to drink until I asked him just what he thought he was doing. Never did answer just looked at my paper work and said go home.
The car was searched well by the flashlight crowd but I have thought if they wanted to search my car I would not have been going anywhere for a while if I said no.

I am sure of this, because, I use to be a LEO.  Your answer should have been, I didn't have anything to drink.  If the officer thought differently, he would have to prove it.
 The shining of flashlights into the car from all sides is allowed.  This is well within the law, it was a visual search, and allowed.
 If you said no, they would have to **** or get off the pot.  Plain and simple, they would have to get a warrant for the search, or they would have to let you go.  Just ask them, if you were free to go or under arrest.  They have to make up their mind.  If they detained you, without cause, then you call your attorney.  Notice, you said he just looked at your paperwork, and told you to go home.
 BTW one of our now "legitimate" rappers who became a "successful businessman", was stopped for suspicion of smuggling drugs, he was detained and let go by the officers when they couldn't come up with a good reason to get a warrant when they stopped him. He admitted recently that he  did have drugs in the car, at the time of the stop.