Author Topic: War stories from Libya are just stories  (Read 1030 times)

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TM7

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War stories from Libya are just stories
« on: August 12, 2011, 01:15:05 PM »
Atrocities War Lies coming from Lybia are worse than Iracq, maybe worse than VietNam....just stories for the gullible so say observers      ...TM7
 
"The first casualty of war is the truth".
 
 
from intrepidreport.com
 
Libya war lies worse than Iraq By Thomas C. Mountain
Posted on July 28, 2011 by Thomas C. Mountain       ASMARA, Eritrea—The lies used to justify the NATO war against Libya have surpassed those created to justify the invasion of Iraq. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch both had honest observers on the ground for months following the rebellion in eastern Libya and both have repudiated every major charge used to justify the NATO war on Libya.
 
According to the Amnesty observer, who is fluent in Arabic, there is not one confirmed instance of rape by the pro-Gadaffi fighters, not even a doctor who knew of one. All the Viagra mass rape stories were fabrications.
Amnesty could not verify a single “African mercenary” fighting for Gaddafi story, and the highly charged international satellite television accounts of African mercenaries raping women that were used to panic much of the eastern Libyan population into fleeing their homes were fabrications.
There were no confirmed accounts of helicopter gunships attacking civilians and no jet fighters bombing people, which completely invalidates any justification for the No-Fly Zone inSecurity Council resolution used as an excuse for NATO to launch its attacks on Libya.
 
After three months on the ground in rebel-controlled territory, the Amnesty investigator could only confirm 110 deaths in Benghazi which included Gadaffi supporters.
Only 110 dead in Benghazi? Wait a minute, we were told thousands had died there, ten thousand even. No, only 110 lost their lives including pro-government people.
 
No rapes, no African mercenaries, no helicopter gunships or bombers, and only 110 deaths prior to the launch of the NATO bombing campaign; every claim was based on a lie.
 
Today, according to the Libyan Red Crescent Society, over 1,100 civilians have been killed by NATO bombs, including over 400 women and children. Over 6,000 Libyan civilians have been injured or wounded by the bombing, many very seriously.
Compared to the war on Iraq, these numbers are tiny, but the reasons for the Libyan war have no merit in any form.
 
 
Saddam Hussein was evil, he invaded his neighbors in wars that killed up to a million. He used weapons of mass destruction (WMD) in the form of poison gas on both his neighbors and his own people, killing tens of thousands. He was brutal and corrupt and when American tanks rolled into Iraq, the Iraqi people refused to fight for him, simply putting down their weapons and going home.
 
 
Libya under Col. Gadaffi hasn’t invaded their neighbors. Gadaffi never used WMD on anyone, let alone his own people. As for Gadaffi being brutal, in Libya’s neighbor, Algeria, the Algerian military fought a counterinsurgency for a decade in the 1990s that witnessed the deaths of some 200,000 Algerians. Now that is brutal and nothing anywhere near this has happened in Libya.
In Egypt and Tunisia, Western puppets like Mubarak and Ben Ali had almost no support amongst their people with few, if any, willing to fight and die to defend them.
 
 
The majority of the Libyan people are rallying behind the Libyan government and “the leader,” Muammar Gadaffi, with over one million people demonstrating in support on July 1 in Tripoli, the capital of Libya. Thousands of Libyan youth are on the front lines fighting the rebels and ,despite thousands of NATO air strikes, authentic journalists on the ground in western Libya report their morale remains high.
 
 
In Egypt, the popular explosion that resulted in the army seizing power from Mubarak began in the very poorest neighborhoods in Cairo and other Egyptian cities where the price of basic food items, like bread, sugar and cooking oil, had skyrocketed and led to widespread hunger. In many parts of Egypt’s poor neighborhoods, gasoline/benzene is easier to find then clean drinking water. Medical care and education is only for those with the money to pay for it. Life for the people of Tunisia is not that much better.
 
 
In contrast, the Libyan people have the longest life expectancy in the Arab world. The Libyan people have the best, free public health system in the Arab world. The Libyan people have the best, free public education system in the Arab world. Most Libyan families own their own home and most Libyan families own their own automobile. Libya is so much better off than its neighbors that every year tens of thousands of Egyptians and Tunisians migrated to Libya to earn money to feed their families, doing the dirty work the Libyan people refused to do.
 
 
When it comes to how Gadaffi oversaw a dramatic rise in the standard of living for the Libyan people, despite decades of UN inSecurity Council sanctions against the Libyan economy, honest observers acknowledge that Gadaffi stands head and shoulders above the kings, sheiks, emirs and various dictators who rule the rest of the Arab world.
 
 
So why did NATO launch this war against Libya?
***First of all, Gadaffi was on the verge of creating a new banking system that was going to put the IMF, World Bank and assorted other Western banksters out of business in Africa. No more predatory Western loans used to cripple African economies, instead, a $42 billion dollar African Investment Bank would be supplying major loans at little or even zero interest rates.
LIbya has funded major infrastructure projects across Africa that have begun to link up African economies and break the perpetual dependency on the Western countries for imports have been taking place. Here in Eritrea the new road connecting Eritrea and Sudan is just one small example.
 
 
What seems to have finally tipped the balance in favor of direct Western military intervention was the reported demand by Gadaffi that the USA oil companies, which have long been major players in the Libyan petroleum industry, were going to have to compensate Libya to the tune of tens of billions of dollars for the damage done to the Libyan economy by the USA instigated “Lockerbie Bombing” sanctions imposed by the UN inSecurity Council throughout the 1990s into early 2000s. This is based on the unearthing of evidence that the CIA paid millions of dollars to witnesses in the Lockerbie Bombing trial to change their stories to implicate Libya which was used as the basis for the very damaging UN sanctions against Libya. The government of the USA lied and damaged Libya so the USA oil companies were going to have to pay up to cover the cost of their government’s actions. Not hard to see why Gadaffi had to go, is it?
 
 
Add the fact that Gadaffi had signaled clearly that he saw both Libya’s and Africa’s future economic development linked more to China and Russia rather than the west and it was just a matter of time before the CIA’s contingency plan to overthrow the Libyan government was put on the front burner.
 
 
NATO’s war against Libya has much more in common with NATO’s Kosovo war against Serbia. But one still cannot compare Gadaffi to Saddam or even the much smaller criminals in the Serbian leadership. The Libyan War lies are worse than Iraq.
Stay tuned to Inteprid Report for more news that the so-called free press in the West refuses to cover.
 
 
Thomas C. Mountain is the only independent western journalist in the Horn of Africa, living and reporting from Eritrea since 2006. He was a member of the 1st US Peace Delegation to Libya in 1987.

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 02:22:33 PM »



So what it amounts to is he was too stupid to play with the rest of the kids. He tried to take over the playground and they beat him up for it. The world ain't fair, he knew it going in. He took his chance and it didn't work out.


Some other ne'er do well third world despot will eventually get it right. I don't believe the word has ever been fair, and is not likely to change. People just enjoy fighting too much.
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Offline -Shaggy-

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 02:26:48 PM »
Well, good.....now you and Gordon Duff won't have to worry about Israel hiring African mercenaries to fight in Libya any more.
 
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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2011, 05:46:38 AM »
Well, good.....now you and Gordon Duff won't have to worry about Israel hiring African mercenaries to fight in Libya any more.

I did not see where the man on the scene reporting, Thomas Mountain, addressed this topic in his article.
 

Really, TM?  Do you have selective reading syndrome, or just need to clean your glasses?  About a quarter of the way into the article:

No rapes, no African mercenaries

So if there were no African mercenaries, then Israel didn't hire any, did they? 

And don't tell me that just means there were no African mercenaries fighting for Gaddafi. You know as well as I do that given how carefully the author addressed every one of the claims against Gaddaffi, that if there had been any claims against the rebels they would have brought them up - as he did about the dead and wounded civilians - especially as clearly pro-Gaddafi as the report is? 

When trying to verify if Gaddafi had any African mercenaries as mentioned in the 3rd paragraph of the article, don't you think that if the other side had them, that wouldn't have been brought up?
Investigator: "Sir/madam, we had reports that there were African mercenaries fighting for Gaddafi - can you verify that?" 
Libyan citizen: "African mercenaries fighting FOR Gaddafi?  Heck no, they were all fighting AGAINST him!"

You really should check your so-called "sources" for consistency with your conspiracy theories before posting, TM.  Otherwise it becomes a simple exercise to use them to refute your own statements...

Just Sayin'

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Offline powderman

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2011, 05:53:39 AM »
JUSTASHOOTER. Back up now, don't go clouding the issues with the truth, it confuses some folks. Good post. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
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Offline Dee

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2011, 07:48:55 AM »
Arabs have been killing each other for about 7 thousand years now, and the Bible said they would, well in advance of it happening. My only concern is why we are involved in something that is none of our business.
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Offline pastorp

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2011, 08:08:18 AM »
Maybe 9-11 made it our business.... ;)  Of course we were there before 9-11.
 
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2011, 08:20:46 AM »
Arabs have been killing each other for about 7 thousand years now, and the Bible said they would, well in advance of it happening. My only concern is why we are involved in something that is none of our business.



Good question! Why are we there?It's dang sure not the spreading Democracy BS, and our government could care less about the welfare of US citizens, so it dam sure could care less about theirs.I guess we can always use 911.WMD's, Woman's rights as a justification to be involved. ::)   
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Offline Dee

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2011, 08:39:05 AM »
Maybe 9-11 made it our business.... ;)  Of course we were there before 9-11.
 
Regards,

Explain to me how 911 made Libya our business please. Possibly the same as 911 made Iraq our business?  ::) ;)
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Offline Shu

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2011, 10:12:04 AM »
In case anyone forgets Ghadaffi after being taken to task in the past 10 years, gave up on the state sponsored terrorsim and wanted nothing more to do messing with the US. He had his fill of US war planes and missles. Lybia was taken off the terror lists.
This no fly zone over Lybia isn't about protecting civilians, it's about banking and oil interests the UK and France.
No, I don't like Ghadaffi but he had straightened up and was acting right.  For those of you who think bombing Lybia is the right thing, why aren't we bombing Syria, Dafur or Somalia?
Unfortunately money talks and everyone else can suffer famine , ethnic cleansing and civil wars.

Offline nomosendero

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2011, 10:44:19 AM »
In case anyone forgets Ghadaffi after being taken to task in the past 10 years, gave up on the state sponsored terrorsim and wanted nothing more to do messing with the US. He had his fill of US war planes and missles. Lybia was taken off the terror lists.
This no fly zone over Lybia isn't about protecting civilians, it's about banking and oil interests the UK and France.
No, I don't like Ghadaffi but he had straightened up and was acting right.  For those of you who think bombing Lybia is the right thing, why aren't we bombing Syria, Dafur or Somalia?
Unfortunately money talks and everyone else can suffer famine , ethnic cleansing and civil wars.

Afraid so
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Offline pastorp

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2011, 11:54:51 AM »
Dee,
 
Thats our excuse for all our meddeling in world afairs......  :o
 
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Offline Dee

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2011, 12:14:59 PM »
Dee,
 
Thats our excuse for all our meddeling in world afairs......  :o
 
Regards,

Ok, now I'm with ya. I thought you were serious. And meddling is an excellent analogy, coupled with a failed policy of "nation building", which is nothing more than installing, and supporting a compliant dictator, at the population of the country's expense, for our own monetary gain, governmentally speaking.
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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2011, 12:51:31 PM »
Well, good.....now you and Gordon Duff won't have to worry about Israel hiring African mercenaries to fight in Libya any more.

I did not see where the man on the scene reporting, Thomas Mountain, addressed this topic in his article.
 

Really, TM?  Do you have selective reading syndrome, or just need to clean your glasses?  About a quarter of the way into the article:

No rapes, no African mercenaries

So if there were no African mercenaries, then Israel didn't hire any, did they? 

And don't tell me that just means there were no African mercenaries fighting for Gaddafi. You know as well as I do that given how carefully the author addressed every one of the claims against Gaddaffi, that if there had been any claims against the rebels they would have brought them up - as he did about the dead and wounded civilians - especially as clearly pro-Gaddafi as the report is? 

When trying to verify if Gaddafi had any African mercenaries as mentioned in the 3rd paragraph of the article, don't you think that if the other side had them, that wouldn't have been brought up?
Investigator: "Sir/madam, we had reports that there were African mercenaries fighting for Gaddafi - can you verify that?" 
Libyan citizen: "African mercenaries fighting FOR Gaddafi?  Heck no, they were all fighting AGAINST him!"

You really should check your so-called "sources" for consistency with your conspiracy theories before posting, TM.  Otherwise it becomes a simple exercise to use them to refute your own statements...

Just Sayin'

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...So what big guy..!! ??   This artricle is just more information..fwiw?  Are you supporting BHO's NATO war on Lybia now..?? 


Nope, never said I was.

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I am certainly not opposed to updates and information from any source....

Including sources with clear, stated bias, sources from the lunatic fringe, sources with no credibility.  Yup, I've noticed.  TM, although it is a good thing to keep an open mind, it's not good to keep it so open your brains fall out.

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you on the otherhand seem to be 'selective' given your biases.

ME selective given my biases!  :o Wow, TM, that's rich.  Care to point out what biases those are, and how they are making me selective?

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Must be a big relief that rumors of Gadaffi's support via isreal and African mercs seem dispelled in this article, allbeit not entirely..

Actually, it isn't a relief at all - relief implies a worry or concern about the subject, and I was neither worried nor concerned.  I was just responding to your obvious side-stepping of the conclusions of the article you cited.
 
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But hold the phone, chief....your sillogism is not borne out conclusively...

That would be "syllogism", and by the classic definition it does indeed follow.

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Your main excercise program must be jumping to conclusions...

Gotta lose weight somehow!  But seriously, I think it is clear to everyone that I tend to apply careful consideration, research from credible sources, and classical logic whereas it is you, TM, that are seen jumping to conclusions - often, contradictory ones!

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that the author of the articdle claims no African mercenaries or alleged rapes by such mercs could be verified is good news, but in no way dispells the original supposition of (isreali) supported mercs. Interesting that self-styled conservative accepts reports from libber Amnesty Int'l as conclusive WHEN IT SUPPORTS HIS BIASES, regardless of original report in isreali news media on the topic.

First of all, I don't accept or reject reports from any source based on their political leanings.  I accept or reject them based on how those sources are confirmed or refuted by other reputable sources.  Second of all, no reputable source has ever claimed that Israel supported or sent mercenaries into Libya, much less the Israeli new media, so I never needed to have it refuted - it never was confirmed.  I was pointing out that one of your own sources refuted it.
 
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Indeed, the story of isreali supported mercs for Gadaffi's side is another story from another forum, and was worthy of investigation and a looksee.

Only worthy if you believe the Iranian "Press TV" news report - frankly, I've never considered them reputable.  State-run propaganda is the best description of them.  Or maybe you find the "anonymous source within the Israeli press" cited by Al Jazeera to be credible.  Again, I don't.  And - here's the important part - even if you do find them to be credible, they claim an arms dealer is behind it, and then make the even more tenuous claim that government of Israel somehow approved or encouraged it.  Pure conjecture at best, mixed with a heavy dose of speculation and without a bit of evidence.  Might I say, much like the majority of the so-called "information" you "report" in these forums.

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I am flattered you remembered it

Don't flatter yourself, I had no idea you ever mentioned it, I was just responding to Shaggy's comment that you responded to.

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and remind me of that story...perhaps we should re-visit that story, too, because reports from war zones often change if you haven't noticed.

I wouldn't bother, nothing to it except Iranian and other Arab anti-Israel propaganda.  Of course, you likely will, if for no other reason than because of your demonstrated anti-Semitic, pro-Muslim nature.  Just do us all a favor and post from an actual, reliable, credible source, will you?

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I suggest a more mature and measured response regarding your investigations and conclusions in the future.

 ::) TM, it is you that need a more mature and reasoned approach to your so-called investigations and conclusions.  Lets face it, most of what you post has no business outside of the Truth, Lies and Conspiracy Theories forum.

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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2011, 01:08:37 PM »
JustaShooter,  well done.  tm7s rant about Israel was totally absurd.  the Israelis are too smart to interfere in lybia.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: War stories from Libya are just stories
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2011, 01:31:04 PM »
JustaShooter,  well done.  tm7s rant about Israel was totally absurd.  the Israelis are too smart to interfere in lybia.
************************************************************************************
  Just like B Hussein...  mess around where he has no business.  The Muslims and their progenitors have been killing others off for at least 4,000 years now.  Prophesy says they will either be fighting with the rest of the world's people or with each other !
********************************************************************************
 
  Genesis 16:11-12 New International Version (NIV)   
11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:   
   “You are now pregnant
   and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,
   for the LORD has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
   his hand will be against everyone
   and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
   toward all his brothers.”
*************************************************************************************
 
   While they are busy hacking at each other..why in God's green earth should we butt in ?  ...Only another Muslim would likely jump into the middle of a Muslim fight !
                                       Hmmmmmm.. Does that tell us something ?
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