Frustrated over 45/70 loads

[Mike in Virginia]

Why can't I reload 45/70s correctly?  I've tried and tried.  I've used both Beartooth and Cast Performance 405 grain flat point bullets with gas check.  They absolutely will not go into the case straight.  A bulge on the case all the way around would be okay, but I get a bulge on just one side EVERYTIME.  I've tried lubing the inside of the cases to no avail.  My reloading equipment is all LEE -- press, dies and all the other stuff.  I like Trail Boss and Cast Performace bullets because they've always done so well in my .44 and .45 revolvers, but trying to stuff a .459 or .460 bullet into a 45/70 case is like babtizing a cat.  Just won't go in straight.  And they sure as heck don't shoot straight, regardless of the amount of powder or the care taken in every step of the process.  My BC will print 1 1/4 inch at 100 yards with Remington factory JSP 405's, but it sure doesn't like my reloads, which is a bad, bad thing because the Remingtons are almost $40 for 20 rounds.   
 
Do you think I'd be better off going with a jacketed bullet?  Trail Boss really doesn't go with jacketed bullets, so I'd be willing to switch powders, no problem there; got plenty on hand.  Might it be the Lee dies? 
 
Advice appreciated.

[Dinny]

Mike,
  Although clearly this is for a Handi rifle, it may get more reloading exposure in the reloading forum. I think it has something to do with your technique or procedure.  I haven't read about any issues, nor have I experienced any myself while loading the 45-70. BTW, TB works great with jacketed bullets.     http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf


Someone once taught me to spin the case in the shellholder to help keep the bullet straight while seating. I usually seat the bullet halfway and then spin it 180 degrees and seat the rest of the way.



Thanks, Dinny

[OldSchoolRanger]

Don't know if this will solve your problem.  Try these steps.
 Check the bullet seating stem,  make sure it is straight, and not slightly bent. 
 Are you expanding the case mouth enough? 
 Are you supporting the bullet on the case mouth until it enters the die. 
 Do you raise the handle smoothly (no quick jerky motions)?
 
 If none of these steps help, try to borrow a set of dies from a different company.  Load a few rounds, and see if that solves your problems. If so you might have a damaged/improperly machined die.

[OSOK]

Sounds like the cases aren't flared open enough.

[quickdtoo]

I use my Lee Loader to start the bullet seating process before using my bench mounted press, adds an additonal step and time, but it starts the bullet perfectly straight so the press can finish the job, as was suggested, be sure to flare the case first which I do with a Lyman M die, then seat the case in the Lee Loader just far enought so you don't remove the flare.

Tim

[StrawHat]

Another tip for you to consider.  When seating bullets, I have come to appreciate a flat tipped seating die for all nose shapes.  It allows the bullets to "slide" about a bit and seems to seat them a bit straighter.

[spinafish]

you might want to consider a M die for your 45-70..I helped me to line big 500 grainers up in the 45-70..when the case was only flaired with a Lee die..the bullet tends to tilt..but the M die make a "step"from the bullets to sit on without tilting till the ram could be raised.

[Swampman]

Sounds like the cases aren't flared open enough.

That's your problem and I'm betting your cast bullets are undersized.
 
Trail Boss will work fine with jacked bullets but it's no better than Unique, 2400, IMR-4198.

[flashhole]

  http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/49   

[Dinny]

  http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/49

This is good info!




Thanks, Dinny

[OR-E-Gun Bill]

Testing another way:
 
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/49
 
This link seems to work ok now.   :-)
 
Bill

[parkergunshop]

Ok,
I chafer all case necks with a chafering tool before resizing to create a bevel on the inside of the case necks to ease the bullets entry into the case.
If you chafer your case neck the problem you described should  go away when seating bullets for any caliber including the 45/70..
 
 

[.22-5-40]

Hello, Mike.  spinafish is spot on.  You need that M die to open the neck slightly for cast bullets.  There is no need to over-bell mouth as this only will leade to case mouth cracking.  You see most manufacturers cater to the majority..and today that means the jacketed bullet.  The dies overwork the brass for the nominally smaller jacketed bullets.  Not good when your trying to seat a cast bullet .001"to .002" over groove dia.  You might want to ditch the Lee's and spring for the RCBS Cowboy type dies..these are set up right from the get-go for the cast bullet shooter & expander is larger in dia.   Best of luck!

[teddybaham]

i have this same problem with hornady 325 gr bullets

[tacklebury]

I've had good luck using the little flare tool that came with my .45 Colt Lee Loader (the hammer style).  When I get some angling, I use this to give a little more flare.  It's still a smooth flaring tool and haven't had a cracked case neck when using it.  I only do this on lead bullets as the jacketed ones seem to straighten out much better on their own.  The only exception was a few boxes of FTX bullets, but they have a very sharp base flat.  The Hornady 350gr FP's don't have any issue and are dead on accurate also. 

[Starman]

Mike, sorry I am late with a reply to your question, but I just noticed it two days ago and had to register so I could answer. I had the same bulging case problem several years ago with a 38-55 Handy rifle trying to load lead bullets. The answer turned out to be rather simple. Don't full length size the cases. Measure the case neck of a loaded round, keep the sizing die high in your press and adjust it down until the sized case is .002" to .003" smaller at the neck than the loaded case. This will give you enough neck tension for a bullet loaded into a single shot rifle like the BC and will not over work the brass. I have used this technique on the 38-55 Handy I had and the 444 Handy I am currently shooting using low pressure lead bullet loads and it has worked well.  The 45-70, 38-55, and 444 Marlin cases all have a slight taper so you can adjust the sizing of the case at the neck area with the depth it is pushed into the sizing die. Less neck tension might also help with the tipping bullet problem.
 As far as your accuracy problem all I can offer is the standard advise. Slug you barrel, use a lead bullet that size or .001" larger. I prefer gas check bullets and medium to slow powders. I have not had any luck with fast powder and lead bullets. I use a good crimp and like to have the lead bullets slightly engrave on the rifling.
 One last thing. Make sure the case is flared enough to start the bullet into the case. This will ease the bullet into the case and the flare will help center the case in the seating die.

Good luck, Starman

[av-doctor]

try starting a bullet into the sized case by hand before trying to seat with the press. if it won't start by hand you need more flare.