Steel-cased 7.62x54R - convert from FMJ to JSP?

[yellowtail3]

I've gotten a Mosin, I'm jazzed. Got a big sardine can of FMJ on the cheap (440/79 bucks). The question - would it be practical to pull the FMJs and replace with appropriate JSPs? I'm seeing that hunting ammo is expensive for the Mosin, and I want to take it into the woods a few times this year. So... the idea of replacing the bullets in unfired cartridges comes to mind. Can it be done? Is it practical?


Anybody tried this?

[1911crazy]

If your going to pull and replace the bullets using the same exact weight you better mic both diameters of the ones your pulling and the one your putting in.  Some of these shoot the .310"/.311" bullets but i'm not exactly sure of the size but i believe there larger than 308".   Some may also be in 308" too like the finnish mosins.  Its good to check the bores too.
 
The imported russian 7,62x54r 203gr soft point ammo is cheap?? at www.aimsurplus.com its $8/20 rounds??

[Cheesehead]

To replace bullets, the neck should be resized, not sure if that is possible with a steel case.
 
Cheese
 

[mauserand9mm]

Apparantly you can resize the steel cases. I've heard of a guy that reloads green lacquered steel cased 8mm (x57) Romanian.
 
Another thing to watch when replacing the projectile is to make sure that you don't seat it out too far to make contact with the rifling - the ogive may be different. May not be an issue, I think most ex-mil rifles have generous leades but some are short.

[Pat/Rick]

 I have had very good luck with Winchester Metric in 7.62x54r. 180 grain SP and hits close to the same ballistics as the mil-surp stuff. Its made by sellior and bellot. The blacktails I have killed have been pass throughs which have shown good expansion judging by the exit wounds. I usually find it at Big 5 sporting goods stores, or the S&B label at Cabelas.

[45-70.gov]

how  about  grinding the point  off  and shooting them??


try them  on a dozen  or so
test them  on water jugs for expansion
check  EVERY  one for the first 100 or so
you  might shoot the core  out  and leave the jacket in the barrel  if you trim  too much


or just  buy a box to hunt with

[yellowtail3]

Good info here, folks, thanks.

how  about  grinding the point  off  and shooting them??...

there's an idea... anyone ever done this?

or just  buy a box to hunt with

got some Privi 150 and Wolf 203 JSP... if either shoot to same point as milsurp, that's exactly what I'll do. Grinding top off bullets makes me a tad nervous. 

[45-70.gov]

i have done it with  8mm mouzers


never  tested them for expantion tho


too many better  options


considered  it for the  308  [got 3k  of fmj]
didn't have time to reload so bought a box  at wal-mart for a trip
now  just reload  my hunting ammo
my surplus  ammo shoots same  POA

[nicholst55]

Grinding the tips off of FMJ bullets to make soft points is NOT recommended; the idea being that there is now nothing to contain the lead core in the jacket, and the jacket MAY get stuck in the bore.  The next bullet sent downrange encounters a bore obstruction, and nasty things happen.  This may well be an urban legend started by one (or more) of the bullet manufacturers, but I don't intend to be the test case.

In other words, YOU may decide to try it, but please notify those shooting on either side of you beforehand! 

[mauserand9mm]

Grinding the tips off of FMJ bullets to make soft points is NOT recommended; the idea being that there is now nothing to contain the lead core in the jacket, and the jacket MAY get stuck in the bore.  The next bullet sent downrange encounters a bore obstruction, and nasty things happen.  ....

Good point, the base of the projectile is usually open with the lead exposed. Also, the jacket is fairly thick and grinding the tip off still won't guarantee reliable expansion. It was commonly done over here with ex-mil 303 ammo many years ago. Haven't heard of the jacket getting stuck, but there was an improvement in bullet performance over the unmodified FMJ projectile, but this was done because there were no soft points available - these days that excuse isn't valid, and it is just a cost issue.
 
I'd use as is for practice and replace the FMJs with soft points for hunting.
 
Does this ammo use the old primers that leave salt in the barrel after firing - easy enough to flush out with water afterwards though, but needs to done straight after firing since rust will start quickly.

[1911crazy]

The winchester metric ammo is manufactured by Sellier & Bellot i have found this S&B ammo to be a good quality imported ammo from europe its one of the best. My 6,5mm swede & my 7mm mausers are very accurate with it. Plus its loaded to full power too its not the wimpy down loaded stuff like the american military calibers are. When i'm out hunting large and dangerous game the power of the ammo isn't on my mind if i'm using the imported ammo over the american made stuff. I just can't climb trees nor run like i once did anymore.
 
Fact;  When your scared you can run as fast as you want too.
 
The proof of this;  My older brother who is still alive(not my hunting/fishing partnet who passed on) is short like a meat ball with legs.  Onetime he was chased by a great dane which he was able to out run it.  Again when your scared you can run a s fast as you want or need too.  I never seen such short legs move that fast i swear he wasn't touching the ground.  I could of won 100k if i had that on video.

[Pat/Rick]

Almost ALL of the mosin mil-surp ammo I have run across has been steel cored. Wouldn't do much good to grind the tips as most states require expanding ammo anyway. Best to just bite the bullet and buy the hunting stuff. You can pull the bullets and replace them with SP's but I have noticed that some ammo has a compressed powder charge as well. Again, its easier just to buy what little hunting ammo is needed.The Albanian is typically brass cased and might be more feasible than steel cased stuff to swap bullets.
 
+1 on S&B ammo being loaded full power.I would not feel undergunned anywhere in N.America with any one of my mosins.

[yellowtail3]

SIGH... and here I was, hoping to cheap my way out...

[handishooter]

I do this now and have had great results. I use a Hornady cam lock bullet puller to pull the bullet. I have it mounted in a Lyman turret press, I pull the bullet, dump the powder onto my scale, then light lube the neck and then use a lee 7.62 x 54 expander die, i ordered an extra expander plug for a .303 british die that I took the decapper pin off of, this opens it up to .312, most die sets come with a .308 expander. I then put the powder back in,I seat the bullet to the same OAL using a similar weight bullet as to the original. I have had the best results with the Hornady Interlock Bullets for the British .303, they are .312 in diameter and 150gr, I am replacing a 149 light ball bullet. I have never had a problem with the steel cases. My scoped 44 nagant shoots 1.5 inch groups at 100yards with this load.  Thats about as good as I get when I use new cases, primers and powder and its a lot cheaper for me because I have a lot of surplus ammo that I got several years ago very cheap. The Hornady bullets cost me about $20 a hundred through Midway.

Took this buck with that load last year and will be using it again this year.

[yellowtail3]

informative post, thanks....

[Airsporter]

Those who grind the heads off military FMJ ammo are into "Russian Roulette."

[handishooter]

Don't know if there is any more interested in this topic or not but I have been meaning to do more research on it and today the weather was perfect for an extended range trip. I took my Oehler Model 43 Personnel Ballistic Laboratory out and a large variety of ammo to compare. The M43 is a great piece of equipment if you are serious about reloading. Not only does it read velocity but by putting a strain gauge over the chamber it also gives you pressure readings. Before firing any ammunition I first used a micrometer to measure the diameter for the bullet.  I used the same M44 for all the testing. This is the caliber I shoot the most and have done a lot of experimenting with it, so I had a lot of different reloads to test. All my loads are straight out of the manual, including the ones using .312 bullets, hornady's manual list loads for .308, .310 and .312, my loads are not max but middle of the road. Just because it worked with my rifle does not mean it will work with yours so work up loads carefully. This was a good excuse to do a lot of shooting. For all except the S&B 180 jsp I fired 5 rounds and averaged the M/V and the chamber pressure, rounding the chamber pressure off. The S&B 180 I only had 3 rounds.


Here are the results:

to get a base line, I first fired, factory and surplus ammo and got the following results.




S&B  180gr jsp  .311 bullet diameter  m/v 2424  PSI 42000

Privi Partizan 150gr jsp  .311 bullet diameter m/v 2830 psi 39500

Russian Surplus 149gr light ball  .312 diameter m/v 2813 psi 38000


Reloads

Winchester Brass,  Federal 210 primer  .308   Hornady 150gr SST  IMR 4895  42.3 gr   m/v 2415 pressure 36500
Winchester Brass, Federal 210 primer   .308  Sierra   175gr           IMR 4895          40.1 gr  m/v 2290  pressure  39500
Winchester Brass  Federal 210 primer   .312   Hornady interlock 150gr    IMR 4895  43.3gr   m/v 2470  pressure 38000
Winchester Brass, Federal 210 primer    .312 Hornady interlock 150gr     IMR  4895  46.6gr  m/v 2690  pressure  40000*


Surplus Russian Ammo, with the bullet replaced

.308 Hornady 150r            m/v 2680 pressure 36500
.312 Hornady 150 gr         m/v  2805  pressure 38000 *

*These two loads shoot the same in my rifle, both group at about 1.5 inches, I can mix them up and not tell which is which when I shoot them but using the surplus case, powder and primer and just replacing the bullet is a lot cheaper. I have taken several dear with this set up and a lot of hogs. Plus it is fun to work with.

[yellowtail3]

Good info! Thanks!

[Larry Gibson]

handishooter
I also use a M43 and have sent a PM.
Larry Gibson