.40 S&W ammo, availability question.

[mannyrock]

 
Dear Guys,
 
   I don't own a semi-automatic handgun, but I was thinking about getting one in .40 S&W.
 
   I spent the last 35 years living in Memphis, and in Northern Virginia, and in every gunstore I ever walked into, there was tons of .40 S&W on the shelves.  I mean lots and lots.  Especially hardball.   It is my understanding that the .40 has basically become THE caliber used by police forces and most governmental agencies.
 
  However, during the last 2 years or so, I have seen many comments on the Boards, to the effect that if there was a catastrophy or civil disruption of some type, the .40 S&W rounds would quickly dry up and you wouldn't be able to find any.   (Those folks are all die hard .45 auto fans.)
 
   So, what's the deal here.  Has there been any incidents of "unable to find .40 S&W ammo anywhere" during the past few years?   Is it rare or hard to find in some areas?  Is availability a realistic concern.  Or, are these comments just fanciful and unwarranted.
 
  Thanks for any info.
 
Mannyrock
   

[Dixie Dude]

Well, I think the .45 auto is still being used by national guard troops and special forces.  9mm is still being used by some police forces and most international militaries.  What about the .223 or the .308.  Still used by military.  Will they dry up.  I say buy what you want, get into reloading, and buy a lot of brass, primers, bullets, and powder.  You can reload brass probably as much as 10 times before it fails. 

[rockbilly]

I have never experienced any problem in securing .40 ammo.  As for the pipeline drying up, I don’t see that as a problem, too many police agencies and military units use the ammo, it should continue to be available in whatever quantity you desire.

[mcwoodduck]

40 is a great round.  It is available almost everywhere.  If you are worried about it go buy a 20MM or 50 cal ammo can.  They were made to keep ammo dry and store it for a long time.  Everytime you go to wallmart buy one of the 100 count boxes of ammo.  And throw every other box into the ammo can.  Shoot  the odd boxes so you are goo with the gun.  Save the brass.  Buy a reloader and reload for the ctg.  If there is a civil unrest you will have ammo and the means to make more   Stock piling thousands of rounds does not make sense to me, ammo is heavy and how are you going to move it if you need to?  A thousand rounds fit in a ammo storage box and can be loaded into a car quickly.  One army Captain once told me as I was buying some bulk ammo that you will over weigh a truck before you fill the volume of the truck with ammo.  According to my kitchen scale 100 Rounds of 165 grain Hollow points in a plastic box weigh 3 Pounds and 9 ounces.  1,000 rounds will wigh over 35 pounds. 
If there is that kind of civil unrest, and you need to go through that much 40 ammo for self protection.... Chances are someone will be looking through you stock pile to see what they can use that owns a rifle or two.  A couple hundred rounds are going to be more than enough if a unrest situation like a flood, wild fire, riot, terrorist attack, or other disaster to protect what you have.  If you are thinking of a second civil war or a Zombie attack, I don't think a million rounds will be enough.

[Savage]

Excellent suggestions by Mcwoodduck. In addition, you might consider a 9mm conversion barrel for your .40 along with a supply of 9mm magazines. That should put ammo availability concerns to rest. Never known of a 9mm/.40 ammo availability problem here, but I reload, so haven't bought factory ammo in years.
Savage

[mannyrock]

McWooduck,
 
   I agree.  I would never stock pile ammuntion. It makes no sense.  I am also not worried about an end of the world scenario.  (I've been hearing about that since the late 1950s, when my parents' neighbors were all building bomb shelters in their back yards.)  That's why I asked about the general availability of the .40 as a general proposition.
 
  Mannyrock

[Savage]

Having a minimum of 1000rds on hand for each of your business guns in not excessive, and certainly not stockpiling. Much more than that would be prudent if you plan to "Bunker In". If and when such an event occurs, I'm not going anywhere, so I don't have to worry about transporting supplies. Everyone should have a plan and equip accordingly.  For "Bugging Out" my first priority would be water, second would be ammo. You could save a few pounds by going with the 9mm if that's important to you.
Savage

[mcwoodduck]

I have a friend that is a little paranoid and had guns adn ammo stock piled here and there.  Some of what he has done makes some sense.  He put a few rifles, shot guns and handguns with enough ammo to load each gun 5 times at his paresnts house in Los Angles as he and his family are there often and whith all the crazy stuff that goes on in LA a riot, fire or earth quate is able to break out because some Moron got snubbed at the oscars.
What does not make sense to me is that he has a similar case at his house that has guns and ammo boxed up in case..... Well my problem with it is they are boxed up and not out being used.  I use my rifles, shotguns and handguns.  I am able to hit things with them.  I do not have the stock pile of ammo that he does but I do have enough, for what senario I see happening here.  I also have shootable ammo and rotate new ammo into the mix as I buy and go shooting in different shoots that allow me to use those guns under some stress.  IDPA, three gun, even formal target shooting has timed and rapid fire sections where you need to beat a clock and still score.  You can not miss fastenough to win was a phrase batted about at a club I belonged to in So Cal at the tactical shoot (mix of IPSIG and IDPA - Not sactioned, but fun).  When I bought my 40 some years ago, I bought a bunch of different ammo to see what would run through the gun.  Now I have about 5 different kinds of premium defense ammo that all work in the gun.  If I were to do it again.  I would have purchased one type of Defense ammo in the weight that is in the common target FMJ size and tried the box through the mags.  If it worked I would have bought enough to fill the mags of my gun three times, and spent the rest of the money on target ammo and entry fees to shoots and every so often cycle through the premium ammo as it hits 10 years old.  Clean, dry and oil free ammo will last longer than that.  Heck I was shooting some 30-06 not too long ago that was from WWII.  When I first got the small sig my goal was to beable to hit a clay bird at 200 yards with less than three rounds (something I was already doing with my 9mm.)  Had I really thought about it I would have spent the $900+ I spent on the gun, leather, ammo, and other stuff on 9mm ammo I would have been able to hit that clay bird with the first shot with the gun I already had. 
 

[SHOOTALL]

manny , if there is reason for one round to dry up all will. Along time ago there was a gun magazine with some shall we say unique articles . American Survival Guide was the name i think. Several articles by Fred ? pointed out the idea that an odd or old cal. weapon would be best . Why ? because all other ammo would be taken from stores , stolen if need be and useless to the mob rounds would be laying on the floor. I would suggest if things got that bad all ammo would be gone along with food , cigs , medical supplies and booze. Best to get the gun you want and stock a modest amount of ammo . as you use it replace with hand loaded or store bought but never drop below your comfort level. One thing most forget is if the weapon is used for SD the ones you defended yourself from will be your resupply for many things .
BTW here in Va. ammo is starting to be in stock in large quanities again ( shelves are full once more )

[mannyrock]

 
Shootall,
 
   I live in Virginia, in a rural part of the Shenandoah Valley.  The small gunshop I go to in Woodstock (G&S Outfitters) told me that during the great "ammo shortage" of a year ago, the only ammo he could not get was .45 auto and .32 auto.  He had no trouble getting and stocking all of the rest. In the 3 or 4 times I was in there during the so called shortage year, he was never out of anything, including bricks of .22 LR.
 
  He also told me that the number 1 ammo that people were buying during that period (besides .22LR) was .38 specials.  Out here in the country, the .38 is apparently alive and well.
 
   This was one of the things that made me curious about the comments to the effect that .40 S&W would be hard to find.
 
Best, Mannyrock

[mcwoodduck]

I think where you live and what is popular there is what is going to be hard to get.
looking at shotguns.  12 and 20 are universal  16 and 28 are popular in the mid west. and 10 ga seems to be a mid atlantic ga.  Walk into a gun shop on the eastern shore and try to find a box of 28 ga 20 12 and 10 are there in multiple shot sizes.  head to Western PA adn 28, 16 and 12 dominate and 10 ga is an oddity and you may as well be asking for 8 Bore by the way the guy will look at you.
with the millions of colt and S&W revolvers that are out there from 38 Spl and 357 mag - in frames from J to N, I am not suprised that 38 Spl is the most common caliber and the one highest in demand.  Next I would guess would be 45 and 9mm tied for popular having been around for over 100 years and the 40 being only 20 years old bring up the rear but gaining ground as it has the combination of the two.  Fits in the popular frames of the 9mm but has the horse power of the 45 ACP.  Anything that can hold a 9 can chamber a 40.  If you have a frame size in mind from sub compact to duty size and larger.    I think the ammo shortage was based on what people thought was going to happen.  There was talk of adding huge taxes to ammo made people go nuts trying to get what they would need for 4 years or more worth of shooting.  As the demand for loaded and componets went up it made them more scarce and higher in demand.  had we known about G&S we would have called in to get ammo shipped.
I am surprised that Cap and ball guns did not sell more during that time.
 

[Empty Quiver]

In this area .40S&W was always the most available.
 
Think about this. Lay in a stock for a rioty day . No matter availability, when push comes to shove there will be no ammo. Two scenarios to consider. Short term, like the last fiasco, enough to get you through a "civil unrest" episode. Long term, ammo is either outlawed or is taxed into the stratosphere. Decide for yourself which you want to buy for.
 
One hundred rounds ought to get you past any rioting. The hoards will either move on or you will be over run, ten minutes worth in my mind is all I will be able to use. For the latter scenario... how much do you want to play? Stockpile enough to wear out the pistol I suppose. Say 15,000 rounds, if you are right you are sitting on gold, wrong, and you never buy again.
 
Personally, I have a .50 can full of each calibre I own. That stock is rotated with what I use at range day, out with the old in with the new. I simply can't afford a pallet of ammo laying around

[SHOOTALL]

Shootall,
 
   I live in Virginia, in a rural part of the Shenandoah Valley.  The small gunshop I go to in Woodstock (G&S Outfitters) told me that during the great "ammo shortage" of a year ago, the only ammo he could not get was .45 auto and .32 auto.  He had no trouble getting and stocking all of the rest. In the 3 or 4 times I was in there during the so called shortage year, he was never out of anything, including bricks of .22 LR.
 
  He also told me that the number 1 ammo that people were buying during that period (besides .22LR) was .38 specials.  Out here in the country, the .38 is apparently alive and well.
 
   This was one of the things that made me curious about the comments to the effect that .40 S&W would be hard to find.
 
Best, Mannyrock

The problem in and near Richmond was if a guy wanted a box he would buy a case and supplies went out the door in a day or two . The 380 was also hard to come by some said. The 38 thing might be because when cops went auto the market was flooded with 38's and 357 M's and anyone with $150.00 bucks could have one. Here they are still aval. for under $250.00 ( SS guns from the correction dept ) . All those guns and Y-2K and the Clintion aslt wep ban caused alot of folks to buy a 38 just incase . Now they have to be fed.

[Brett]

A couple of years ago when most handgun ammo was scairse .40 was plentiful at my local Wally-World and still is.   My local WM has several brands and configurations.

[Dixie Dude]

A couple of years back, 380 ammo was the hardest to find.  Found out that the manufacturers made 9mm ammo for about 11 months out of the year and only tooled to 380 for one month.  Both are 9mm diameter and use the same equipment to make.  380 is basically a short 9mm, length is shorter and rim is slightly smaller.  44 specials are harder to find than 44 mags.  7.62x54 and 8mm Mauser are sometimes hard to find also. 

[SHOOTALL]

So is 7.7 jap

[3030guy]

In Western PA, 40 and 9 were available, 380 was the one that was scarce.
I'm no reloading expert, but I've heard 40 S&W can be a tougher round to reload, maybe not the best choice as the cartridge to cut your teeth on reloading. The solution? Get a 38 and learn to reload on that, then get the 40 when you become addicted, I mean experienced, at reloading.

[mcwoodduck]

In Western PA, 40 and 9 were available, 380 was the one that was scarce.
I'm no reloading expert, but I've heard 40 S&W can be a tougher round to reload, maybe not the best choice as the cartridge to cut your teeth on reloading. The solution? Get a 38 and learn to reload on that, then get the 40 when you become addicted, I mean experienced, at reloading.

I reload 10mm for a buddy.  I have no problems learning.  There are two rules I can tell you.  1 buy a powder that will over flow the case if you accidently double charge it (the phone rings, kids, The wife, the dog... and Double charging is possible)  2) weigh your powder every 25 rounds.   the only problem I had with the 10mm was with lead projectiles.  A really hard crimp is needed so the bullets in the mag do not jump out.  but if you use plated or FMJ bullets there should be no problems.  I load Blue dot for the 10MM.
Good luck.
 

[SHOOTALL]

manny good advice , saw a 10mm Glock come apart one day best guess was a double charge. AS for the Glock , two rounds in the mag went off blew out the rest , spring and floor plate. Blew the slide off the frame . All parts were found but the mag spring . put the gun back together and it worked flawless with a new mag and factory ammo of course. 

[3030guy]

Going back to the question of ammo availability, it doesn't take long to go through handgun ammo and reloading components, specifically primers, which were also hard to get. I just moved and after carrrying all those boxes of reloading stuff and ammo, I really don't want to acquire more. My plan is to have enough on hand to get me through a temporary chaos situation. Longterm, if it should ever get that bad, I would resort to scavenging. That said, I reload for my 357 handgun and rifle, I have a 40 cal Glock because there is so much 40 cal ammo out there, and a couple 22 handguns. I brick of 22 ammo is always available, portable, and works in any situation in a pinch.

[SHOOTALL]

yesterday I had a chance to go by a store that is a police supply . They had a ton of Glock and S&W 40 cal pistols for 350-400 and tons of ammo for them . Most trade in stuff. They had Federal 40 cal. marked factory seconds . Now that's a new on me. But to the point there really is alot of 40 and 9mm ammo on hand with 45 acp and 38 spl. not far behind.

[hornady]

I would say it all boils down to your shooting habits and what you are comfortable with on hand. I reload and cast for every gun I own except the 22 LRs,
I even load and cast for a Glock 22 in 40S&W, many will say not to do so, but if enough research is done about the Glock and cast bullets, It can be done without any increase in pressure or leading with the stock factory barrel.
This last shortage on ammo and reloading components was not the first, or will it be the last.
One thing I will say no matter what handgun you decide on you will and should shoot it regularly. I shoot a couple times a week, if with the Semi-autos that’s about 8 boxes a week. Revolver half that.
No one knows when the next run on Ammo or components will be, I know what I am comfortable with on hand, but there just is no single answer to your question. You need to find your comfort zone.

[Flash]

If there is a civil disruption on a national scale, you won't find any ammunition of any caliber. Buy what you want and as much as you want and start reloading.