Cock on Closing or Opening

[goodconcretecolor]

I have owned both types of rifles; a 1916 Spanish Mauser and a Howa 1500. I could operate the bolt easier at the shoulder with the 1916. Why did bolt guns evolve toward cock on opening?

[mcwoodduck]

I think  you have a faster firing rate with more accurate shots with the cock on open.  Less pressure is needed to close the action and keeps you on target.  The Enfield No 1 and 4 action with standing.

[Brithunter]

Sorry I cannot say why but I noticed that one cannot keep on target so easily with cock on opening as when lifting the bolt it tends to move the rifle cock on closing like the Mauser 93 & 96 and the Lee Enfields I find much easier.


I suppose one reason might be CoC can have a shorter lock time?

[mcwoodduck]

Lock time is the same.  It is how long it takes for the pin to break the sear and hit the primer.  If the pins are the same length, same weight and under the same spring tension, the lock times should be the same.
The Enfield is a strange one.  There is not a lot of spring trension.  making the action smooth and fast.
Maybe it is that most of my Cock on close rifles are strait bolts and most of my Cock on opening rifles are Bent bolts and that is why I find them easier to keep on target while cycling the bolt.  But I find it smoother to have a smooth close of the Cock on opening rather than fight the pressure of the spring on closing. 
Don't get me wrong, I like my  95, 96,1910, and my Enfield.  They are great rifles.  I am not as fond of the Mosin Nagant as an action or the Arasaka not because they are cock on close but because of the safety set up with the twisting of the cocking piece.
I really don't think there is a diff between the two in accuracy.  I wonder why most of the Sporting arms and military rifles after the 98 Mauser came out have been cock on open.

[Rangr44]

[Why did bolt guns evolve toward cock on opening?]
 
 
IMO, Paul Mauser had some reason to switch to cock on opening in 1898 - otherwise all 98's would be cock on closing.
 
Don't forget, Mauser's M1898 upgrades were all about safety, like 3rd locking lug, gas relief ports, interference lugs on the front end of the FP. the flared bolt sleeve for gas diversion, etc, etc.
 
One reason for a safety change is that in the Mauser design, the firing pin extends out at full length to fire a round.
 
In the cock-on-closing design, if the firing pin didn't get cocked, or catch on the sear, as the bolt was closed, the gun might fire before the locking lugs engaged.   
 
"Cock-on-closing" depends upon interaction between two separate entities - the sear (in the receiver lower tang) and the FP ( in the moving/manipulated bolt).
 
"Cock-on-opening" depends upon interaction between two separate parts of the same entity - the nose of the FP's cocking piece, and the notch in the bolt sleeve/shroud - both attached to te bolt.
 
.

[SHOOTALL]

cock on close was to increase fireing rate.

[Brithunter]

Hmm well if the bolt handle is not fully down on the Enfield the striker cannot fall. Try it and see.

[parkergunshop]

The fastest bolt actions ever made were the Lee Enfields cock on closing did not slow them down and as stated earlier there is no safety advantage for cock on opening over cock on closing.  The sear can fail in either case when the bolt is closed and let the firing pin fall.
In World War I, the Germans at one battle throught that all the Brits had machine guns. the Lee Enfields would allow them to shoot so much faster than the 98 Mauser and they could with a much faster bolt action and a 10 round magazine.
 
 

[mcwoodduck]

The fastest bolt actions ever made were the Lee Enfields cock on closing did not slow them down and as stated earlier there is no safety advantage for cock on opening over cock on closing.  The sear can fail in either case when the bolt is closed and let the firing pin fall.
In World War I, the Germans at one battle throught that all the Brits had machine guns. the Lee Enfields would allow them to shoot so much faster than the 98 Mauser and they could with a much faster bolt action and a 10 round magazine.

I read about the incodent.  There were a few things about it.  1 the Lt was a colonial troop and lined his men up in the 4X rank so a dense about of men.  He had them fire in ranks and then at will.  So one line was prone one was kneeling and the last two were standing.  The volume of fire coming from the rank made the german captain or major think he was facing multiple machine guns.  The fast action and the double magizne as well as the four ranks all firing added to the confussion on the Germans part.