Author Topic: Sales clerk incompetance! (Read 2293 times)

Dogshooter · « **on:** August 20, 2011, 01:35:35 PM »

I went to my local sporting good store and bought a new Weatherby Ultra Lightweight in .257 Weatherby Mag a couple of months ago. I had them put Leupold bases, Leupold rings, and a Leupold VX-L 4.5 X 14 scope on it. I took it to the range and shot it at 25 yards to get it on paper and was 12 inches low! I took it back and the clerk told me the scope was bad, to send it to Leupold. I took it home and put and old Leupold VX III I had on it and bore sighted it and the crosshairs were WAY above the grid. Took it all back and the dingbat clerk told me the scope was still bad and that I needed to send the rifle back to Weatherby because the barrel was bent! Called Weatherby and the tech guy I spoke to deducted that the idiot clerk put the wrong bases on it. I went back and demanded the correct bases, mounted them myself, went to the range and now it shoots 3/4" groups, on target. Moral: don't trust clerks to sell you the right stuff. Do all of your own research to make sure you are getting what you want and what will work.

pastorp · « **Reply #1 on:** August 21, 2011, 06:40:56 AM »

I agree Dogshooter, I usually just look up the part numbers and order from midsouth and have them sent priority mail right to me. Then install myself. If I buy a used rifle, I usually take the scope off and make sure everything is tight and the base screws are loktitened in place.

If you do it yourself then you know it's done right....

Regards,

Hooker · « **Reply #2 on:** August 21, 2011, 08:07:28 AM »

Almost like going to Walmart . Our local WM store has little old lady that works the sporting goods counter. She's as nice as she can be but God bless her she don't know the difference between a box of 12ga shells and a fish hook. This is not her fault it's managements fault they put her in that position. She will tell you she doesn't know which is far better than the last fellow they had that thought he knew it all. Now that fellow was a menace to society. When he said "Can I help you" it should have been considered aggravated assault.

Management at most chain box stores only require that one have pulse to work a counter. Knowledge is not needed or wanted after all you can't have someone working for you that makes you look bad by knowing what they are doing.

Pat

Graybeard · « **Reply #3 on:** August 21, 2011, 12:41:31 PM »

I cannot conceive of the idea of letting someone else mount my scopes or for that matter select the base/rings/scope for me to use. I buy firearms locally but almost always buy the scope/bases/rings from Midsouth. I've been doing it that way close to as long as Midsouth has been in business.

Rarely and I do mean very rarely I'll buy bases locally but generally not unless Midsouth happens to be out of stock on that item and a local store has them.

I want to know the job has been done right and the only way I can do that is to do it myself. I always take the action from the stock to make sure there are no burrs or tight spots in the barrel channel, I adjust the trigger to 3 pounds if it is capable of being adjusted that low and mount the scope using loc-tite on the base screws and torqueing the ring screws with a torque wrench. I never had a problem getting it to three pounds or occasional less if it's a varmint/target gun until Remington went to the X Mark Pro trigger. Not a one of them yet has adjusted below 4 pounds.

I make sure the rings are aligned and lapped unless using Burris Signature rings and then do my own shooting and reloading for it.

Dogshooter · « **Reply #4 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:04:40 PM »

Graybeard, I agree wholeheartedly with you on this. I have always bought mounts and scopes from Midway Supply, or a similar business and always mounted all my own scopes. But this time, our local economy has gone into the toilet so I thought I'd keep some money in the community. I ASSUMED (yeah, it did make one outta me) the clerk knew what he was doing because he has been working in the local sporting goods store for years and is the one that the manager always lets do the appraisals for used guns. Even after this mess up, he won't admit to being wrong on the bases. He says "Weatherby has always had this kind of problem". Will definately go back to my old ways, I NEVER had a problem like this before.

His lordship. · « **Reply #5 on:** August 21, 2011, 01:12:42 PM »

Having worked in retail, I can tell you that it is often a case of low wages and poor treatment. On my last part-time retail job I could not fill a large order for linens because I could not get management help to locate the stuff, and did not have the training to use the inventory computer to find the items in the store's warehouse. I watched a large sale lost and go right out the door to a competitor, I doubt the upper management really cares as long as the company's stock is on the positive side on Wall street. At $8.00 per hour and my last night on the job, I really did not care that much, but it showed why American companies are no longer competitive.

Graybeard and pastorp are right to order and install your own rings and mounts. I almost bought a Vanguard rifle a few weeks ago at a local chain sports store, they did not have the scope mounting hardware in stock, and the only rifle in .243 was a floor demo, and no discount on a gun that had it's bolt action worked for how long?!

I learned from that to either go to a full service gun shop, even if I have to pay a little more, or be very patient and order the accessories and expect several weeks to make operational, and sight in the rifle. Fall is coming, so I will be prepared if I move on another rifle.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2011, 02:14:32 PM »

Mounting and boresighting your own optic is about as mechanically difficult as changing your own oil. Yes, you can screw it up, but with a couple of tools and a little common sense it is very easy.

I have a 1" and 30mm Wheeler ring alignment and lapping kit. Have found that with quality rings and bases I've never had to lap anything. After that it is simply leveling the crosshairs (which I use bubble levels and feeler gagues for) and tightening down the screws to spec.

I refuse to let anyone do any work for me on my rifles other than chambering/rebarreling (I can't afford a lathe, and don't have a use for one otherwise). Sounds like a little reading up on the internet and a good ol' college effort might be your best bet next time. Good luck!

diggler1833 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 26, 2011, 02:21:24 PM »

LOL that reminds me of when I was in Dick's Sporting Goods in Wilmington one time. One of the guys behind the counter was talking about how he was going to be busy for a few minutes "Building a rifle for a customer". He simply took a 10/22 off the rack, and threw some cheap rings and a base on there and just screwed on a Simmons scope. Must have made his way up to your neck of the woods.

fastchicken · « **Reply #8 on:** August 26, 2011, 07:56:12 PM »

Quote from: Graybeard on August 21, 2011, 12:41:31 PM

I never had a problem getting it to three pounds or occasional less if it's a varmint/target gun until Remington went to the X Mark Pro trigger. Not a one of them yet has adjusted below 4 pounds.

Maybe I got a good one cause I got mine down to 2 1/2lbs and no creep. You could back out the main weight screw a tad, if you haven't done so already, then use the set screw in the trigger to fine tune it.

huntswithdogs · « **Reply #9 on:** August 27, 2011, 05:14:49 AM »

We called the local Dicks's sporting one nite to find some 7mm UltraMags for my youngun(needed some extra brass). Got the name of the clerk, who assured us they had 3 boxes, and made the trip across town to get one or two as the price was pretty dang good. Yep, ya'll guessed it...no Ultras but 3 boxes of 7mm Rem Mag(and only 3!). Ya'll shoulda seen this idiot trying to convince us they'd work in a 7 Ultra. I went up front and asked for the store manager. The talk we had wasn't very long. He didn't seem too interested. They probably made the idiot the gun dept manager. I don't go back in the store and try to convince others to watch closely if they do.

HWD

john keyes · « **Reply #10 on:** August 27, 2011, 06:47:57 AM »

these big places hire teenagers and pay em the lowest they can. Its not like when we were teenagers and felt like a kid in a candy store at a gun place. these kids could give a rats ass about guns, would rather play on their cell phones or mess around on facebook.
can't really blame the kids, our society created em.

On a bigger scope (no pun intended) I can't count on ANYBODY to do ANYTHING ANYWHERE without having to micromanage the entire operation from start to finish. Its ridiculous. have to tell somebody something 500 times because they don't listen. do not have resources to reference freely available information. don't care. do something yesterday. need it again today? sorry, nothing was learned or remembered. start all over

Rangr44 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 27, 2011, 10:25:57 AM »

Quote from: diggler1833 on August 26, 2011, 02:21:24 PM

LOL that reminds me of when I was in Dick's Sporting Goods in Wilmington one time. One of the guys behind the counter was talking about how he was going to be busy for a few minutes "Building a rifle for a customer". He simply took a 10/22 off the rack, and threw some cheap rings and a base on there and just screwed on a Simmons scope. Must have made his way up to your neck of the woods.

WOW ! I didn't know Dick's had custom gunsmiths !

.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 27, 2011, 04:19:23 PM »

Ha, the Dick's "Custom Gunsmith" was an older guy too. We had one here in J-Ville for a while who looked a lot like Bruce Campbell from "Army of Darkness". That guy loved telling stories and was always running his yap when I was there (I get bored easily I guess). I remember his stand-off with some gangbangers that he had (which he happened to have a Mossberg Mariner 500...the same gun he was showing to a customer). Then there was the "homemade silencer" with a 2-liter soda bottle and some paper towels. Last time I saw him he sold a kid a bunch of 300WM ammo, both with moly and nekkid bullets. I told the kid real quickly to make sure he scrubbed the crap out of his bore before switching to moly bullets so he wouldn't seal the copper in, the Dick's guy just looked astonished, then tried to repeat the same info like he had just forgotten.

I was at a Dick's the other week in Florence and wanted to look at their HD shotguns. For S&G purposes I asked that old guy what the differences were and he just read off the manufacturers stamp off of the Remington 870's barrel.

Gotta watch out for them, they're everywhere!

His lordship. · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2011, 07:18:21 AM »

Does not surprise me with Dicks, they originally were a specialty golf store that bought out Galyans Sports about 7-8 years ago. I worked at Galyans for about a year and found some people in their gun department were pretty knowledgeable, and others were clueless at their store in Minnetonka, MN, at that time. The rest of the company was not good, they lost money and became a buy out target for Dicks.

I have not been very pleased with what I have seen in Minnesota and Texas for Dicks, I hope to never walk their stores again.

454Puma · « **Reply #14 on:** September 06, 2011, 04:48:04 PM »

I guess thats what you get when you go to Wal Mart style gun shops! I try not to buy guns at those places.

Savage .250 · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2011, 01:53:22 AM »

Not all "clerks" are equally talented..........

George Foster · « **Reply #16 on:** September 08, 2011, 01:11:58 AM »

Chris D,

Dicks didn't start as a golf store. Dicks was started in Binghamton, NY as a hunting and fishing store by a gentleman named Dick Stack hence the name. For many years the store in Binghamton and then also a store in Vestal, NY was just that. It was years later that is expanded to what it is today by the sons and daughters.

steve · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2011, 02:10:48 AM »

It is fun to pick on the incompetent clerk. Years ago I had went to our local Fleet Farm to look at New England shotguns. The kid that was working behind the counter said that they did not have New England. But in the rack was a 410,20 and 12 ga. I had him show me those shotguns and then read what was the name on it. Still said they didn't have New England shotguns. So the quality of people they have working behind a counter not to bright. Had fun though. A friend of mine had told me later that kid cried like a little baby after I had left. I had simply told him if you don't know what you are selling don't be there. A little mean but it worked. Went back about a week later and was looking at those shotguns again. The same clerk was there and now he knew what he had there

guzzijohn · « **Reply #18 on:** October 26, 2011, 10:38:32 AM »

Sales clerk incompetence can work in your favor. Back in1970 when I was a sophomore in high school I stopped by a local Alco store. In the rack was a total custom made 22-250 that was made by a fine local gunsmith. It was noon time and the regular sporting goods guy was at lunch. I asked another clerk if I could look at the gun. When she handed it to me I noticed a price tag of $115.

I asked the clerk if that was a correct price and she said as far as she knew. I then asked if they would take $20 to put it on layaway until I could come back with my father, which she did. When we returned later that afternoon the regular guy was there and about in tears. Since they had accepted my layaway they honored the price. It had been miss tagged and was suppose to sell for over $600. Best gun deal I ever got.

GuzziJohn

MZ5 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 26, 2011, 06:23:29 PM »

Too bad for you guys. My last set of scope bases and rings were purchased remotely, and I did absolutely no measuring, research, or anything at all, and I got the correct bases and absolutely perfect-height rings. I simply told the man what rifle and scope I had, and what finish I wanted.

Maybe you guys should buy from Conetrol like I did!

saddlebum · « **Reply #20 on:** October 27, 2011, 02:32:03 AM »

I have only let someone else mount a scope for me once, ever. I wound up re-doing it myself. The guy that sold me the scope talked me into it. Besides the fact that I can't trust anyone else to do it right, I don't 'level' the scope when I mount it. I shoulder the gun and adjust the scope in the rings before I tighten the screws. Shoulder the rifle several times to make sure the crosshairs look level to me and go with that. I don't hold my rifles perfectly level when I shoulder them to fire. So there is no reason for me to 'level' the scope. If I did, the crosshairs would be canted and I have to make adjustments to my hold when I should be concentrating on the target. And it doesn't feel natural. I'm flexing musles to level the crosshairs which is not condusive to accurate shooting. Kinda like having a shotgun that fits right, when you pull it up. When it hits your shoulder, it's right where it's supposed to be for aiming. Thats the way I learned to do it and it works best for me. So having someone else do it is out of the question. I don't use Loctite either. In 40yrs I have never had a clean, dry screw come loose on my bases and rings. When I do dismantle them, the screws are tight and snap loose from where they are seated. No need for goop. Guess I'm set in my ways. But they work for me............

I've always done my own homework before I buy almost anything. There is nothing I hate more about sporting goods and gun stores than to have some twit that is dumber than me trying to sell me something I don't want. Or treating me as if I know nothing. I have over heard salesmen lying to customers and saying anything to make a sale. Things like, 9mm semi-autos make good bear protection guns! And then there is the "hard sell" they give you on items that are not moving through the store, (for a reason). Or the latest trendy gun. I ain't trendy.
I mail order as much as possible and Midsouth is my favorite. When I do go into a store, I usually irritate at least one sales person because I am focused and don't want to put up with much, if any, of their tomfoolery. I am not a smart man, but I have learned very little from store personel over the years.
Makes a person miss the good old mom and pop type gun shops. I did learn a thing or two from those folks!

diggler1833 · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2011, 01:16:42 AM »

Ummm, leveling a scope is a must if you ever want to accurately adjust the reticle.

Of course, if you are shooting with a BSA scope or price-wise counterpart, and have never done anything but hold off for range and distance, it might get you by to continue with old ways.

I remember my time as a marksmanship instructor in the 'Corps. Always had guys fighting me over wanting to change position/trigger control etc... because they were "comfortable", and it worked for them for years. They just never understood why they couldn't keep up with the big boys when it came time to score targets.

saddlebum · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2011, 06:01:56 AM »

Quote from: diggler1833 on October 29, 2011, 01:16:42 AM

Ummm, leveling a scope is a must if you ever want to accurately adjust the reticle.

Of course, if you are shooting with a BSA scope or price-wise counterpart, and have never done anything but hold off for range and distance, it might get you by to continue with old ways.

I remember my time as a marksmanship instructor in the 'Corps. Always had guys fighting me over wanting to change position/trigger control etc... because they were "comfortable", and it worked for them for years. They just never understood why they couldn't keep up with the big boys when it came time to score targets.

I would really like to hear an explanation as to why your comment about leveling is true. Educate me. And why it is that before they came out with scope levelers, that my way of setting up a scope was what everyone did before and seemed to work fine. Am I just "lucky" that I have no accuracy problems or scope issues without leveling my scopes with the universe. I'm ignorant. I don't know why making an ever so slight adjustment to the 'level' of the scope would throw the world off it's axis and cause my shooting to be less accurate after it is properly mounted with the adjustments centered and sighted in. Maybe you could explain the physics of why it makes a difference. And the dynamic that makes a difference when using a cheap scope as opposed to an expensive one. Please help!

diggler1833 · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2011, 09:05:04 AM »

Hopefully I didn't upset anyone too much. Rather than spending hours trying to explain how a canted reticle will not allow you to correctly hold over for bullet drop, or hold off for wind drift (because it's freaking canted), here are some good reads on the effects on accuracy from shooting with a canted scope. The second read even has groups fired to show how being canted affects accuracy. Not to forget that making windage or elevation adjustment on a canted optic will result in both windage and elevation adjustments. Enjoy.

http://www.riflescopelevel.com/cant_errors.html

http://www.riflescopelevel.com/cant_tests.html

diggler1833 · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2011, 09:10:56 AM »

It might not be something that you really notice shooting shooting 50-100yds, but if you go to a 500-1000yd line canting your rifle will be quickly seen.

Once again, it also depends on your acceptable level of accuracy. If you are shooting a surplus rifle with 2-3+MOA accuracy, you might not see what a 6 degree cant does at 200yds. If you are shooting a MOA or better rifle, it will be much more noticeable.

saddlebum · « **Reply #25 on:** October 29, 2011, 12:09:29 PM »

Maybe I should clarify. I shoot rifles that print 1/4 to 3/4 MOA, 3 shot groups with 300 dollar scopes. They are used for hunting big and small game successfully out to 500yds and do quite well for that purpose without leveling. Depending on the limits of the particular gun. For the shooting I do, there is no need to make myself uncomfortable in field positions by leveling a scope. Undue muscle tension in field positions is not my friend. The amount of adjustment I do is quite small. I am not a military sniper nor can I afford a 4000 dollar 'dial-in' scope that would take advantage of leveling. Nor do I need one. We are talking about two different kinds of shooting. If one feels it neccessary to level their hunting rifle scope and it works for them or gives them more confidence, then go for it.

I came at this discussion from the wrong angle in my first post and actually attempted to erase it right after I posted it. I am just now coming back to this thread and find it is still there. I do understand the issue of canting whether it be the rifle or the scope. I guess this morning before I was fully awake, I was a little taken back by statements about cheap scopes and experience of shooters. And now, 3 MOA rifles. I understand your thinking about precision shooting and dial-in scopes and the effects of canting. It just doesn't apply to me or most game hunting. IMO. It has never hampered me from putting meat in the freezer before.
Not upset, no hard feelings......................

foxx1 · « **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2011, 03:53:37 PM »

all sales clerks in dealing with firearms and ammo should have basic training. a walmart in north dakota sold a weatherby 300wby mag rifle to a customer,the customer wanted ammo,sales clerk sold 2 bx of 300 win.mag ammo,for the new gun,well,customer comes back and has the gun bolt stuck with a fire case,lucky it didn't do more