Author Topic: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol  (Read 2349 times)

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Offline Flip G

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Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« on: August 21, 2011, 09:52:22 AM »
I have an older black powder pistol and don't know much about it and thought I could get some answers here. The pistol is cap and ball, on the frame it is stamped Iver Johnson's Fitchburg-Mass-USA on the barrel Mod.1858 New Army Cal 44 and on top of the barrel A. Uberti & C. Gardone V.T. Italy. It looks to be in very good shape and was wondering if it had any value from what I described. Never posted a picture before, sorry for my lack of computer skills. Thank you in advance, Flip

Offline Bugflipper

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2011, 12:25:14 PM »
Someone may have a better option for you on posting pictures. Here is the way I do it, not so good at computers myself.
Take the picture and hook the chord to your computer. It will ask you if you want to export the pictures. Click yes. When you post click on attachments and other options. A box will drop down that says attach, below it will be an empty box with browse. Click on browse and a window will pop up. You will search for your pictures there. Should be under the name of your computer, then libraries, then pictures. Click on the image you want then click open. When you get done with your message just click post like usual and it should have an attachment of the picture with it.
Sorry couldn't help on the original question, have a good day.
Molon labe

Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2011, 03:01:07 PM »
I have an older black powder pistol and don't know much about it and thought I could get some answers here. The pistol is cap and ball, on the frame it is stamped Iver Johnson's Fitchburg-Mass-USA on the barrel Mod.1858 New Army Cal 44 and on top of the barrel A. Uberti & C. Gardone V.T. Italy. It looks to be in very good shape and was wondering if it had any value from what I described. Never posted a picture before, sorry for my lack of computer skills. Thank you in advance, Flip

Iver Johnson was the importer.  Uberti was the manufacturer.  A used Uberti '58 Remington clone is valued in the latest Blue Book:
 
100% - $315
98% - $275
90% - $205
80% - $ 160
 
Add $90 for stainless steel
Add $35 for adjustable sights
Add $35 for Color Case Hrdened frame
Add $135 for target model in stainless steel
 
The date code on the right side or bottom of the frame will tell you when it was made.  Here is the decoder ring for date codes and proofmarks:  https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPProofmarks.pdf
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee
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Offline Cascade Pete

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2011, 08:13:06 PM »
Thanks Fingers. The date code stuff will go into My binder for Gun shows..Good info...
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Offline Flip G

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 04:50:18 AM »
Thank you Fingers, good info.

Offline StrawHat

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 01:03:53 AM »
I have an older black powder pistol and don't know much about it and thought I could get some answers here. The pistol is cap and ball, on the frame it is stamped Iver Johnson's Fitchburg-Mass-USA on the barrel Mod.1858 New Army Cal 44 and on top of the barrel A. Uberti & C. Gardone V.T. Italy. It looks to be in very good shape and was wondering if it had any value from what I described. Never posted a picture before, sorry for my lack of computer skills. Thank you in advance, Flip

Uberti & Gardone was an early maker of imports.  Go here for more info.
 
http://blackpowdersmoke.com/revolvers/index.php
 
 
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Offline Fingers McGee

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2011, 06:58:43 PM »
The barrel address he is speaking of is Aldo Uberti & Company in the Gardone Valley of Italy Strawhat.  Are you thinking of Gregorelli & Uberti (GU makers mark) that was making replicas from about 1959 to 1964 and was the precurser to A. Uberti & Co?
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee
Man of many Colt's and alter ego of Diabolical Ken
SASS Regulator 28654-L-TG, Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire
Pistoleer/Frontiersman, Founding Member - Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Member - Southern Missouri Rangers; Moniteau Creek River Raiders, The Ozark's Posse, Butterfield Trail Cowboys
NRA Endowment Life: NMLRA, GOA; CCRKBA; SAF; SV-115; STORM 327, LASOOS 144, SBSS735

"Cynic:  A blackguard whose faulty vision sees thing as they are, not as they should be."  Ambrose Bierce

Offline StrawHat

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 10:27:07 AM »
The barrel address he is speaking of is Aldo Uberti & Company in the Gardone Valley of Italy Strawhat.  Are you thinking of Gregorelli & Uberti (GU makers mark) that was making replicas from about 1959 to 1964 and was the precurser to A. Uberti & Co?

Fingers,
 
Thanks for straightening me out.  Yep, I was thinking about GU.  Old age is settling in fast!
"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result"  Winston Churchill

"A law without a punishment is merely advice."  anonymous

Offline bprevolver

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Re: Iver Johnson's Black Powder Pistol
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2011, 09:54:20 AM »
Gentlemen, let’s not forget the collector value of this Iver Johnson marked Remington New Model Army.  Iver Johnson replica percussion revolvers are worth a premium not only because of their rarity but the history that is involved with their existence.
 
Very briefly, let’s also not forget the history of the Colt 2nd Generation “C” Series and “F” Series and their relationship to Iver Johnson.  It was Lou Imperato who persuaded Colt to assume production of their percussion revolvers.  It is also Lou Imperato who had purchased Iver Johnson.  Since Uberti had been producing the 1851 Navy since around 1959-60 and possibly the 1860 Army in 1962-63 for Navy Arms, Lou Imperato came to an agreement with Val Forgett to provide parts from Uberti for the Colt revolvers.  These early revolvers were assembled and finished at the Colt factory thus the “C” Series.  In 1977 after Lou Imerato had assumed direct control of the parts issue from Val Forgett, the “F” Series were produced at the Iver Johnson factory in Middlesex, NJ.   
 
Now the interesting part, most replica Iver Johnson percussion revolvers have code dates between 1975-1978.  It appears that Iver Johnson was importing finished replica revolvers from Uberti at the same time that they were supplying parts to Colt.  When the Colt revolvers started being produced at Iver Johnson in 1977 the Iver Johnson marked replicas disappear.  It is also interesting to note that the first “F” Series Colt revolvers were packed in the black boxes with a note that stated that they were produced at the Iver Johnson factory!
 
Thus we have importer marking, Iver Johnson, which is closely associated with the production of the Colt resumption of their percussion revolvers.  The Iver Johnson marked revolvers were only imported for around two years.  Exactly what models were produced is unknown at this time.  RPRCA has four Iver Johnson revolvers in its collection: 
 
Remington New Model Army
Remington New Model Army Target Version
1860 Army
Model Griswold & Gunnison Army .44cal.
 
Two other models that have been observed are the 1862 Pocket Police and the 1862 Pocket Navy.
 
The detailed information about the 2nd & 3rd Generation Colts can be found in Dennis Russell’s book, Percussion Colt Revolvers, The Second Generation Collector’s Handbook & Price Guide.  The greatly expanded 6th Edition has just been released and is available directly from Dennis Russell.  Over 75 pages of new information have been added.