Sporter stocks for M38 Turk actions

[kombi1976]

A few years back I picked up an M38 Turk action for $50 figuring it would come in handy.
It was short a mag follower, spring and floorplate but for the price it was good.
Here's a couple of pics of the action:

 

 
I've always wanted a 7x57 and figured it might be a good candidate.
I rang up a Mauser parts place chasing the mag parts and they happened to have an excellent 26" Chilean bbl in stock so it's winging it's way to me as well as the follower, spring and 'plate.
My only concern is getting it inletted for a stock.
Alot of the M38s were actually originally part of a 1903 shipment of Mausers chambered to 7.65x53 so they're shorter than a standard k98 action.
In fact when the Ankara armory rebarreled them to 8x57 in 1938 they had to machine the semi-circular notch in the front receiver ring so they would accept 8x57 stripper clips.
Thing is, that means the receiver is shorter.
Surely other people have stocked these actions before.
Do they fit on a standard M98 inlet or do they need to be inletted differently?

[Mikey]

Kombi:  from the looks of the action in your pictures I would say it is a standard 98 Mauser action.  I don't recall Mauser making 'short actions' or shorter actions back then, such as the M46/46A Yugo Mausers and I believe the rifles made for the 7.65x53mm round were standard length actions.  I would try for a Boyds stock for a standard 98 Mauser and I think you will be happy.  I don't know if you may need to use a bit more bedding compound in some areas or if it will be a nice tight fit, but I think it will work for you. 
 
Just for a better answer you may wish to run this one past the gunnut69, the moderator of the Gunsmithing Forum and see if he can help further.  HTH.

[cam98k]

Your action could be 1903 mod,
7.65x53 were Intermediate Actions,
In your pic the Bolt release looks like it was
Ground Down,and Hump for stripper Clip also.
 Best bet is to Take Trigger Guard and see if it Fits
into any Mod98 Stocks at your Local Gun Shop.
Regards,Tony.

[kombi1976]

Cam, as you suggested, it is a 03/38 model making it an intermediate action.
The barrel, follower, spring and floorplate arrived here today, much to my delight. Here's the bbl:


As you can see it has a sporting front sight base and I suspect the muzzle was shortened slightly when it was fitted as it's about 25.5" long. The bore is lovely. Not shiney but zero pitting and very good. Even the bluing is pretty good. Here's a closer look at the tag and the military rear sight base:


The Turk floorplate, follower and spring also appeared.



They fitted perfectly......except for the floorplate.
It was too short by about 3mm.
It didn't really make a great deal of sense so I rang Harry again to chat with him about the problem.
That brought us to the real issue.
Here's a pic of the box mag/trigger guard from underneath:


Note the arrows.........provide any clues for those Mauser-knowledgeable readers?
If not I'll fill in the blanks.
The arrow on the left pointing to the hole by the front action screw is for a locking screw.
Turk mausers don't generally have lock screws.
That isn't a problem in itself but the right hand arrow seals it.
That edge sticking out into the box is the feed ramp.
Try using that box and rounds willl hang up in the mag.
Clearly the mag is from a Columbian carbine or the like.
After ironing this out with Harry through a convoluted question-&-answer session he said he'd send down a Turk box mag complete with matching floorplate.
The bottom line is I reckon I'll name this rifle Frank.......short for Frankenstein!!
So until the Turk mag arrives I guess I'll be waiting.

[cam98k]

The placement of the locking screw is Typical of FN and Yugoslav Mod24 trigger Guards,
Mod98Gew and 98k Guards have the Locking Screw on the other side of Guard Screw (Front)
Adding to the over all length of them. I measured a old Turk Stock and the Trigger Guard Cut
Out is 220mm in Length, Turk Rifles can be a Mish Mash of Parts.Hope that this is of Some Help,
Regards, Tony.

[kombi1976]

Harry from Harry's Mauser Parts said exactly the same thing about Turk Mausers. The rationalisation in '38 meant they screwed this bbl onto that action, used whichever bolts that matched, and basically put together whichever parts would fit correctly. It wasn't exactly hit and miss but they were more interested in having rifles chambered to 8mm that worked properly and did not involve more capital expenditure than they were in matching numbers and models.
The front screw, as you suggested, if different to the floor plate from the k98 actioned 8mm sporter I have.There's also locking screw on the back action screw(?!) which is tucked into the back of the trigger guard.
Thanks for those measurements. I'll see how they pan out. I think in the long run the only difference between the k98 and 03/38 in terms of inletting measurements will be the size of the front ring. I think it's a tad shorter and perhaps slightly larger in diameter. I'll keep you posted when the hopefully correct box mag/trigger guard arrives.

[cam98k]

You Might Need to Check the Threads in your Turk Action,
Some of them are a Different Size to the Mod 98,Depends
on who made the Action,Turks,Germans,Have heard that
Swede 96 mauser barrels are Compatiable with 1903 Turks,
But am not 100% sure if this is correct.
Regards,Tony.

[cam98k]

Kombi,
Google, Turk barrel thread size.
Lots of info on them there,
It does seem that they are
Small thread Size.  Tony.

[kombi1976]

Yes, it is a small ring and so is the bbl thread.
That's why I bought it.
The M93, M95 and M96, all being small ring Mausers, have bbls that are interchangeable.
So you should be able to screw a Swedish 6.5x55 bbl onto a Spanish, Turkish or Sth African M93 or M95 and you should be able to Spanish or Sth African 7x57 or Turk 7.65x53 bbl onto an Swedish M96 action.
All also fit the Turk 03/38 and 38 actions as they have small bbl threads.
Why Turkish 03s had the small ring instead of large ring like other M98 actions is hard to understand.
Perhaps it's because the previous rifles they had in 7.65x53 were M93 small ring Mausers and they wanted a standardised bbl type across all their rifles no matter the action.
Does that all make sense?

[gunnut69]

I'm far from an expert but the reason for the small thread diameters was the turks contract with mauser. It had a provision allowing them to re-negotiate anytime mauser made a change. The first contract included a lot of spare barrels so the Turks wanted to keep the ability to use them so sprecified the small diameter barrel threads. This constant contract alteration is also the reason there are so many variants in the Turkish mausers!! The short, long and intermediate actions all had different lengths from action screw to sction screw. Don't rememner just now (CRS) but they are different.. I've an intermdiate commercial action and it won't allow conversion to 35 Whelan...don't ask how I learned that.. I am intersted however in where to got the barrel in 7x57 as that would be great for my Turk...

[kombi1976]

Bit of an update on this thread. "Frank", due to a lack of funds and a sick gunsmith, is still "on the slab" (aka languishing in parts) and the lightning rod is nowhere near ready for hoisting. However Harry, Mauser expert and all around top guy as he is, provided me with the correct trigger guard/mag box in a swap for the Columbian one I had. How cool is that? Of course he will have other customers after parts for Columbian Mausers but nonetheless alot of people would be more interested in just making a buck. Anyhow, the action is now complete.
 
I've also managed to score a new Timney trigger in exchange for a Martini Cadet action I have that's been sitting in my safe doing nothing with plenty of plans but no real movement. A mate wants to build a 17 Ackley Hornet and has a suitable bbl and Frank's 2-stage military trigger has the bottom broken off so a trade is a great solution. Besides, my mate actually GAVE me a Martini Cadet in 22 Hornet a few years back and it's a brilliant shooter.....bagged a fox at 100yds offhand the other night.....so I figure it's more than fair. Oh, and the missus is happier a the thought of one less potential rifle in the house. 
 
But the thing you're most interested in is that I found a stock maker, Gordon Cusens, who will make a stock for Frank. It won't be amazing timber, just straight and nice, but the stock pattern should be something special. It's a Traditional English pattern designed by the late great Geoff Slee here in Australia and Geoff's designs are wonderful. Gordon, an up and coming maker, bought up Geoff's patterns and a lot of his timber when Geoff closed up shop, sadly only days before he passed away from cancer, and Gordon was given Geoff's approval to keep the Slee name on the stocks he produced from Geoff's patterns. So it's fitting that Geoff's work is immortalised.
 
Anyhow, when I find some $$$s I'll get Gordon to make me a stock and I'll post some pics. Meanwhile I'm going to call my previous gunsmith, Keith Bridgeman at Sprinter Arms in South Australia, and see what the bill will be for the work. The list comes to:
 

• Remove sight base and front sight
• Cut, bend and re-weld bolt handle
• Drill and tap action for mounts
• Fit and headspace bbl
• reblue action and bbl
• Fit and adjust trigger

Hopefully it won't be too much although I can see it mounting up. The deal has been cheap enough so far.
 

• Action = $50
• Replacement Parts = $20
• Barrel = $150

Of course it won't stay cheap and I'll need mounts and rings and a scope, even when it's done. Ahh, well, guns, that's how they are!
 

[AtlLaw]

a new Timney trigger in exchange for a Martini Cadet action

AWK!!!      gasp gag swoon...
 
DARN Kombi!      I woulda give you a Timney attached to a 98 action for that Kay-det!      'course there would have been that bothersome import thing...   

[kombi1976]

a new Timney trigger in exchange for a Martini Cadet action

AWK!!!      gasp gag swoon...
 
DARN Kombi!      I woulda give you a Timney attached to a 98 action for that Kay-det!      'course there would have been that bothersome import thing... 

I wondered how long it would be before someone cried foul on that.
Entire Cadet rifles can be had here for as little as $200 if you can't get an action.
Mauser 98 actions are usually worth more.
Besides, the traded Cadet action has issues.
The firing pin needs replacing and a previous owner drilled right through the frame one side to the other.
I don't mean through the back so you can drop the mechanism out and run a cleaning rod down it, I mean straight across!
The guy I bought it from is renowned for bubba'ing perfectly good stuff but fortunately the mechanism isnt damaged.
There'd be real tears if I declared I was trading my large frame 1908 Egyptian contract Martini Enfield action  for a trigger but never fear, it will continue to wait until I have enough money to build a trade rifle sort of 303 Brit sporter.
But I digress.
I need to call Sprinter Arms & get some prices.
Getting it past the "minister of war & finance" may be another thing, especially after I import a Gibson guitar from your side of the pond.
She's a top bird but I haven't yet been able to convert her into a shooter.