Educated opinions on a SHTF load out

[SHOOTALL]

shootall


when the insulin runs out
lets meet up for some   lo-carb led-o-looter

I'll bring a gallon of creek water and a couple filter straws    maybe some MRE deserts .

[SHOOTALL]

I think (key word think) most people with common sense have some provisions at home or even a retreat. But the op was load out . Could he mean the place you have decided to make your stand has become useless , lost or becomming too dangerous to stay ?
 If so what would you carry out with you ? I would guess it would be the bug out bag . The grab and run bag. Of all the things that would influnce your choice of contents experince would be the leader. If you have ever experinced living in such a situation then you would know first hand what you need to get by. If you have no experince then you either need to seek out someone who has it or get some.
 what experince ?
      walking with a load , how far can you walk ? how much weight can you carry ? combine the two .
      what is in walking distance that would offer shelter ? help ? or other things you will need.
      how much food can you live off of ? can you ration ?
      water , can you provide yourself with water ? filter ? where to find it ?
 protection , weapon and ammo . Size , amount of ammo , can you hide it ? can you access it ? can you carry the weight ?
   clothes what do you really need ? cold ? warm ? wet ?
 
just a few things to consider if you really have to grab and run . In reality you don't need to pack a load of equipment you can't carry far. What you might do is if possible spend a night out in the woods or back yard during each season of the year. Take a hike with a small load maybe lunch and a few other items . See how far you can go in relative comfort . See how much food you need to pack just a light load.
 Read some survival books but also read stories of people who lived thru. bad times . Read books about hunting and war in Africa. The Civil war and other wars around the world where resupply was non existant. I read a book that had a story about one of the great hunters who was a scout and spy during the first world war in Africa and others in WW2. In one chapter they listed what they carried. It was quite lite and they stayed out long periods of time. Ammo was under 200 rounds. Food was stuff like a loaf of some bread and some meat maybe a little rice or beans. A cup to cook in nothing heavy. If you have to walk away from all your supplies or they are destoryed before you get home you will need to have a plan B. What happens if say you are ingreat health and can carry 45 lbs . You walk until your food is gone what next ? Did you plan to be in an area that you could aquire more food ? or did you strike out on a journey with out direction ? Could you have rationed and had the food last longer ? could you have watched your food and aquired more before yo ran out ? I think many will be dropping items that when packing a load out figured they could not do with out only to find they could not carry it.
I ramble sorry.
A list . water, and a way to filter it and carry it , food (as much as you can tote) and a way to eat it. clothes as needed ( the clothes you wear still add weight to your load), knife , fire starter ( bic lighters are lite and work) ( cotton and vasilene work well) . A cup like canteen cups , tarp ( a couple military ponchos work well) . Weapon and ammo, Soap. and tolet paper, medicine and first aid , para cord works in so many applications,  I always like to have fishing line ( can strip out one thread from para cord if needed ), hooks , float and sinkers along with some berkley bait sealed in a zip lock bag. By now the load is about all I want to carry any distance. You might add sunscreen , salt peper , hot sauce or other comfort items . Dice might be nice to play with for a break and they are lite.
 
Oh well my 2 cent worth , sure others will pick it apart    buit then they may point out something I missed I may need ! I hope it's lite 

[Dixie Dude]

I like the idea of a small bug-out cart.  Like a foldable deer hauler.  Have say a 30 gallon plastic barrel with a sealable lid.  Stuff it full of stuff like food, water filter, some ammo, tarp or tent, sleeping bag, or such.  Combined with a light backpack, one can push or pull this through the woods if necessary, or travel at night on county/dirt roads.  If the cart is balanced right with the handle(s) at waist height, one could attach it to a belt or vest and pull it along, freeing your hands for gun carry, or hiking stick(spear).  One could carry some snares/traps, depending on where he is going, and what terrain he would be traveling through.  I have been watching the show 'Revolution' on TV about a world wide power outage.  People walk everywhere, use crossbows, have backpacks.  I guess they live off the land.  If a giant solar flare happens, or some rogue country tries an EMP blast above the US, this could happen here.  However, some power would eventually be restored.  NatGeo or Discover said it would take about 6 months to get the power back on in a total US blackout like that.  In 6 months there would be a lot of dead people.  Elderly, weak, sickly, and maybe children would be the first to die.  The documentary said about 100 million would die.  Lots due to starvation, and fighting over limited food and water supplies.  Colera would breakout in the cities due to sanitation problems with subsequent deaths. 
 
That is why I said, living in the country, having a way to get to the country as fast as possible, even if on foot.  Having good maps/map books showing all road/forests/terrain between you and your retreat location would help if you had to  go on foot. 
 
My senario, Bug out vehicle with supplies, bug out bike and/or cart, bug out bag, in that order.  Hopefully you wouldn't have to drop off or drop down as you travel.  That is why I like the idea of a bike with cart, or a cart and walk. 
 
Traveling in a group would help with security.  Think about the wagon trains and people who went west with push carts like the Mormans. 
 
If you bug in, know your neighbors.  Form a neighborhood watch.  Try to get them to prep.  Have cheap guns like Mosins to pass out to neighbors if things really get bad to help with neighborhood security.  Lots of things people can do.  Find out who are liberals and don't tell them much, just try to get them to store food for themselves to beat inflation. 
 
I honestly believe things are going to get worse the next 4 years.  Hopefully America can survive through this.  Hopefully it will get so bad, Dems will never get reelected, Rinos either.  Hopefully we can take our country back. 
 
I miss Reagan. 

[SHOOTALL]

yea a group , one with lots of skills in food aquireing and medical along with mechanical etc would be a plus.

[45-70.gov]

i will sit in the back with my shotgun after  i kidnap some poor guy
once i run him to death  i will snag another  at gun point







›

[Dixie Dude]

This is what I had in mind.  Instead of hauling a deer, haul a plastic drum or sealable box with survival stuff.  Easier than backpacking everything.  Narrow enough to travel game trails in heavy woods.  Can lift or roll over logs. 
 
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Yukon-Collapsible-Game-Cart/741991.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D20%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Ddeer%2Bhauler%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchallpartial%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts%26WTz_st%3D%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26form_state%3DsearchForm%26recordsPerPage%3D20%26search%3Ddeer%2Bhauler%26searchTypeByFilter%3DAllProducts&Ntt=deer+hauler&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products
 
Couldn't copy the picture. 
 
Another would be a mountain bike with a trailer on back.  In Vietnam, the NVA used bikes loaded with about 200 lbs of supplies and ammo along the Ho-Chi-Min trail south.  They would walk the bikes down, then ride them back north for more supplies.  It was through the jungle and mountains.  An average adult can walk 20-30 miles a day.  Even a slow 1mph walk one can do 8-10 miles or more per day.  So a retreat 200-300 miles away could be walked in a month.  Of course, keeping vigilant, one could drive it in half a day even using back roads. 
 
On the EMP show on TV, they estimated half the vehicles in America would not function with an EMP blast or solar flare.  They tested various vehicles.  If you could find out which ones weren't affected, that would be the brands to buy to avoid being stranded.  Older points/condenser vehicles would survive.  One would have to go back to the 70's to find those however. 
 

[FPH]

I'm going to stay put initially.  I have a well and I don't want to be sniper bait.  I also have five horses I can eat and a barn full of hay.  I say come and get me.  Oh.....I'm i n the country.  May need to move due to radiation if it comes over the Mountains.

[SHOOTALL]

that's great if a crisis dosen't make your place unliveable , like say a nuke disaster or chemical spill etc. You don't need leave home to be sniper bait. If you have what others want they will come .

[FPH]

that's great if a crisis dosen't make your place unliveable , like say a nuke disaster or chemical spill etc. You don't need leave home to be sniper bait. If you have what others want they will come .

Good point......I have to go outside to feed, and turn on the Gen. to pump water.

[FPH]

Never have used a .22 CB Cap.......are they strong enough to take a Cottontail?

[SHOOTALL]

maybe , if you are very close and very accurate maybe .

[FPH]

maybe , if you are very close and very accurate maybe .

I was disappointed in the amount of sound a sub sonic .22 made.  I may have to try a suppressor.  I was told I could use the .22 Cap.

[SHOOTALL]

are you using them in a rifle ? a rifle is quiter than a handgun. If you go suppressor look into one for a 223 some also work on a 22LR and if need ever comes up you will already have it.

[Dixie Dude]

If you are using a 22 rifle.  I read that a 22-24" barrel with subsonic loads or CB longs would be very quiet without going the suppressor route.  Cheapest suppressor I found was $650 plus the $200 stamp and fed background check.  Marlin makes a long barreled bolt action and a long barreled model 39 lever.  You can also buy 22-24" barrels for a Ruger 10-22 for $189.  My carbine Ruger can shoot the CB longs, single shot fairly quiet.  It is just 9" lower hitting a target at about 30 yards vs CCI stingers.  So you probably have to reset your sights/scope to compensate for the quieter rounds. 

[SHOOTALL]

If you get a suppressor set up a trust and you won't need a background check.

[FPH]

I was shooting Rem. Sub Sonic from a Ruger 10/22.  I will stick with one of my pellet rifles before I would use the .22.  Especially on Cottontails.

[FPH]

If you get a suppressor set up a trust and you won't need a background check.

I do have a trust.......do I put the suppressor into the trust?  Thought about the "oil filter" Suppressor.

[SHOOTALL]

you need a trust with and adminstrator and some one to leave it to then get a notary to seal it. The ser # has to be listed also . Then send in application to ATF in Altanta and wait 6-8 mos. There are gun shops that will help you , there are lawyers that will help you some shops hook you up with a lawyer and you get a discount. Really all you do is start a trust or add it to an existing one , fill out application and mail a check and copy of the trust .

[Dixie Dude]

FPH, how far away were the cottontails.  25 yards is probably max in the subsonics.  Mine actually were about the same noise wise to a pellet rifle.  Also, no cocking and loading after each shot.  Just pull and release the bolt on the Ruger between each round. 

[Spirithawk]

Don't be too quick to disregard some of these new pellt rifles. Particularly the piston powered ones. My son's new Benjamin put a .22 pellet through two milk jugs full of water at 30 yards. Quiet, deadly acurate and a container of 500 pellets carries nicely in your pocket. Not saying it should be your only survival weapon but I can sure see advantages to having one along with something else. 

[FPH]

FPH, how far away were the cottontails.  25 yards is probably max in the subsonics.  Mine actually were about the same noise wise to a pellet rifle.  Also, no cocking and loading after each shot.  Just pull and release the bolt on the Ruger between each round. 

Cottontails are about 15 ft away during winter( huddle in mesquite bushes).  I would most likely use my Sheridan pellet rifle.  The Remington sub sonics were accurate, but quite noisy.  I've seen a suppress 10/22 you only heard the sound of the firing pin drop and you did have to cycle the action.  I'll try my old bolt .22.

[Bugflipper]

With sub sonics the longer the barrel, the better they are in the noise dept. I have a 28" 10-22 that is pretty good squirrel medicine. Sometimes they will bark if one drops next to them, but for the most part it's business as usual. All I can hear is the hammer drop, a very slight cycling noise and the impact. I use a hp tool to make them bigger so the sound of impact can be pretty apparent from 50 yards away and the squirrel usually gets knocked up or over a few feet before falling. Squirrels must be racist because flying squirrels agitate the piss out of them. A lot of times I will have to intervene and take out the ones whooping up on a fallen comrade.   
With a 24" I can hear the shot a little and try to space them about a minute apart to not get them riled up. The impact is still louder than the shot though. But can't hear the hammer drop. With a 21" they generally hear something that isn't right and it may be a few minutes before they settle down. With an 18" and under they high tail it away from the sound.

[FPH]

With sub sonics the longer the barrel, the better they are in the noise dept. I have a 28" 10-22 that is pretty good squirrel medicine. Sometimes they will bark if one drops next to them, but for the most part it's business as usual. All I can hear is the hammer drop, a very slight cycling noise and the impact. I use a hp tool to make them bigger so the sound of impact can be pretty apparent from 50 yards away and the squirrel usually gets knocked up or over a few feet before falling. Squirrels must be racist because flying squirrels agitate the piss out of them. A lot of times I will have to intervene and take out the ones whooping up on a fallen comrade.   
With a 24" I can hear the shot a little and try to space them about a minute apart to not get them riled up. The impact is still louder than the shot though. But can't hear the hammer drop. With a 21" they generally hear something that isn't right and it may be a few minutes before they settle down. With an 18" and under they high tail it away from the sound.

What type Sub Sconic ammo do like and is quite?  The REM. is accurate but not quite.  I'll check my barrel lenghts.  I've got two identical 10/22's, but I also have two Springfields to check.  May be I need to switch rifles.

[Bugflipper]

It's probably more to do with your barrel length than anything. If they have stock barrels I think most 10-22s have came with a16.5" or 18". Walmart use to sell some 21". You have to buy an aftermarket barrel most of the time because the "carbine" is usually a selling point of the 10-22. A 22 makes it's peak velocity around 16" so there aren't many new ones of any brand with a barrel longer than 18". I think CZ still sells some 21". Mossberg had some really accurate 24" bolt actions for years that still show up on the used gun racks. But none of that is what you asked.


All of the brands marked sub sonic or match are usually going to be pretty close in report. Those rems are dirty but readily available and most guns will like them reasonably well for hunting accuracy. They also have about the softest lead for small game. This is what most folks use because it is what their local store carries. You probably wont do much better sound wise unless you explore the CB type rounds which have a reduced range.


I shoot mainly wolf because all of my guns like it. It is high today. I bought a lot when it was $12 a brick, I think it's $40 or 50 now. The main thing is to just find the one that shoots the best in your guns then buy in bulk. I've tried aguilla rifle match lately and it does pretty good in several I have. PMC moderators do well in most I have to. I really don't know if they started making those again or not. They have decent medium lead in them for bigger animals that raid the chicken coop.


If those springfields are the 89A then you found the right rifle for the subsonics. I have one that the bolt will lock for single shot or open for semi. The 24" is quiet enough and the action is so slow to reload it doesn't raise much of a fuss even in semi.
Good Luck.

[FPH]

Springfied 84C 24" barrel .........bolt gun.....longest I have............I'll try that. 

[jcn59]

I shot rabbits & squirrels with cb caps years ago & they worked fine. 
 
I have little doubt that with a good rest I could hit and kill a rabbit at 100 yards with my  scoped .22 Sig Trailside using 40 grain target ammo which is just barely sub-sonic.

[45-70.gov]

my most accurate 22 is a savage
it was a mil-dot scope


i memorized...but then forgot
what load went with what dot at what distance


3rd dot down  was ...CB at 60 yds[my  home range]


one dot up     HV  at 60yds.


dead  on at  125yds.....HV


dead  on with  CB  was  30yds??


CBs in this gun was  good at 60 yds  IN THIS GUN
other guns  didn't seem to do too good  much beyond 50 ft
but then  its easy to close the distance....best plan any way if food is scarce

[FPH]

I usually laminate and tape a copy of my elevations under the butt.