Author Topic: Educated opinions on a SHTF load out (Read 10993 times)

BUGEYE · « **Reply #60 on:** May 03, 2012, 06:45:59 AM »

we have stockpiled food, water, medicine, guns, ammunition, large and small propane tanks and our house is brick which might turn bullets. we plan to invite a couple of neighbors to join us.
I have a brace and bit plus a keyhole saw to cut a "potty" hole in the utility room, and a sack of lime out in the shed.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #61 on:** May 03, 2012, 08:43:18 AM »

Quote from: BUGEYE on May 03, 2012, 06:45:59 AM

we have stockpiled food, water, medicine, guns, ammunition, large and small propane tanks and our house is brick which might turn bullets. we plan to invite a couple of neighbors to join us.
I have a brace and bit plus a keyhole saw to cut a "potty" hole in the utility room, and a sack of lime out in the shed.

how much toilet paper ?

many don't know how fast the use it

BUGEYE · « **Reply #62 on:** May 03, 2012, 11:24:49 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on May 03, 2012, 08:43:18 AM

Quote from: BUGEYE on May 03, 2012, 06:45:59 AM
we have stockpiled food, water, medicine, guns, ammunition, large and small propane tanks and our house is brick which might turn bullets. we plan to invite a couple of neighbors to join us.
I have a brace and bit plus a keyhole saw to cut a "potty" hole in the utility room, and a sack of lime out in the shed.

how much toilet paper ? many don't know how fast the use it

I guess I should get a couple of those 48 roll packs. I'm running out of storage space.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #63 on:** May 04, 2012, 01:14:27 AM »

or grow alot of corn

I satarted another topic about what we need to prepare for vs what tools or supplies we need. I think that is a better way to determine needs . As an example , wash dishes , wash self wash clothes - a bar of Ivory soap will work for all three . If you don't consider all needs you might be toting three kinds of soap.

gstewart44 · « **Reply #64 on:** May 04, 2012, 03:11:01 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on May 04, 2012, 01:14:27 AM

or grow alot of corn
As an example , wash dishes , wash self wash clothes - a bar of Ivory soap will work for all three . If you don't consider all needs you might be toting three kinds of soap.

Ivory sure beats the heck out of that smelly old homemade lye soap my Grandma made us use during our summer visits in rural N.C. That stuff worked but it was harsh.....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #65 on:** May 04, 2012, 03:49:23 AM »

Needs can offer the best choices and combine ansewers to those needs.

rmark · « **Reply #66 on:** July 20, 2012, 03:53:29 PM »

Go here and see what shtf really looks like
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

sixgun_symphony · « **Reply #67 on:** September 22, 2012, 10:58:13 PM »

My grandparents lived through the Great Depression and I learned alot of things from them before they passed away.
They had fruit trees and a large garden in the backyard. They canned alot of the produce. They worked hard, they saved their money, they did not buy alot of useless toys.
Try to learn the basic skills that they knew. Talk to older relatives about the subject. Also get a library card and do some research.

Dee · « **Reply #68 on:** September 23, 2012, 02:08:19 AM »

On the subject of soap the "home made soap" is actually "better" for your skin than the Ivory. Though it may "seem harsh" it has an ingredient that the Ivory has had removed. It is glycerin! When lye and fat are combined at the proper temperature, a "true chemical change" occurs and the two together, become something entirely different. One of those is the glycerin. Commercial soaps on the other hand have the glycerin removed and it is sold separately in expensive cosmetics.
When I had more time at home, I made lots of home made soap with a blender. Glycerin is good for the skin, and the scalp.JFYI

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #69 on:** October 03, 2012, 04:32:57 PM »

Even a well trained american indian will have a hard time if they have to make bows and arrows to make a living. It would IMO take a COMMUNITY like a tribe for that to work. Some make bows, some make arrows, some make broadheads, some make strings...while others hunt. Some make clothes, some make buckets, some make sheltor, and some stay on guard/watch as warriors...but all work as a team. For one man to do all this, his guard would be down...the woods will no longer be untamed wilderness...but will be packed with people from the city and would be taken out by a someone with a gun. We will have to come up with new ideas that haven't been promoted by holliwood films. It would be tough. I would try to keep a small pack of able bodies...and hope to have it be composed of people I could trust to not kill me or my family for our reso...urces. IMO, shotguns are great for home use or camp use...but I have my doubts about their "survival use." They would be valuable for small game, but very heavy if you were to carry much ammo at all. IF you have a little ammo, not much use either. I think the well placed shot with a 22 or AR/5.56 would be better for "all around" use. One pistol per person as BACKUP (not primary) with a few mags full of ammo...not I don't think I would worry much about a great deal of ammo for the handguns. Some yes...but most extra ammo better be for rifles. Bullets for the rifles will trump the handguns. Rifles can be used both short and long distances.

I do wish everyone the best.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #70 on:** October 03, 2012, 04:36:15 PM »

BTW, even though I am familiar with traditional archery...and what I say may seem like blastfamy given my hobby of traditional archery (http://keepitsimplearchery.com) just don't know anyone that could make enough arrows as well as hunt proficiently enough to keep their family fed.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #71 on:** October 04, 2012, 02:27:56 AM »

Unless one lives in a very remote area the wild/fast food will run out long before the arrows and ammo.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #72 on:** October 04, 2012, 11:05:24 AM »

I hear ya...and agree except for non-game birds...which would become a food source. Good luck with arrows taking out a small bird.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #73 on:** October 26, 2012, 02:51:53 PM »

How long after a true SHTF event do you expect to have to survive? How long before you run out of ammo or how long before your ammo deteriorates and becomes unreliable just when you need it most? If you reload - how long before you run out of usable brass, even if you do cast your own bullets, or before your powder supply is corrupted by the elements? Better add an old fashioned long bow or two to your list, and you had better start practicing the task of making your own arrows...

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #74 on:** October 26, 2012, 06:33:22 PM »

I for one might have trouble with the bow when the Ibuprofin runs out.

Getting older certainly changes ones priorities.

Used to be I was all "Wolverines" thinking I could outlast any sort of difficulties. 50 yrs of reality and a bout with arthur every few weeks takes some of the starch out. Just thinking about running makes my knees ache, and it ain't likely a determined force would allow me several minutes to warm up before I could draw a heavy bow. When they find me there might be a pile of brass waist deep though.

Savage · « **Reply #75 on:** October 27, 2012, 12:27:54 AM »

Quote from: guns-o-fun on October 26, 2012, 02:51:53 PM

How long after a true SHTF event do you expect to have to survive? How long before you run out of ammo or how long before your ammo deteriorates and becomes unreliable just when you need it most? If you reload - how long before you run out of usable brass, even if you do cast your own bullets, or before your powder supply is corrupted by the elements? Better add an old fashioned long bow or two to your list, and you had better start practicing the task of making your own arrows...

If you run out of ammo, it'll be because someone took it from you or you didn't stockpile enough. Today's ammo has a shelf life equal to a couple of ours, even when stored under less than ideal conditions. A bow might be useful in some situations where noise might give away your position, but ammo is much easier to carry and much more effective. A suppressed .22 would be much more useful and practical.
Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #76 on:** October 29, 2012, 01:27:21 AM »

With regard to ammo the 22 lr is the worst canidate for long term storage . The type bullet and its interface with the brass is not good at preventing air and moisture from getting in. If stored where temp. swings from hot to cold in 24 hr periods it causes the pressure in the round to change and with time will draw in moisture. In a vehicle or pack the process is speeded up. Stockpiling is ok if you can remain in one place but even with a vehicle space is limited and water , food and meds will get the nod over extra ammo in most cases. As for shelf life - yes and no . Some ammo will last in good storage some in less than ideal storage. Some will not. Best check out what you store. I see people buy the off brand FMJ for storage for a SHTF time and wonder why. In such times why FMJ ? In such times with little chance of resupply why cheape off brand ? If you need insurance you need good insurance. I have had way too much Russian ammo that would not go bang ! too much "surplus" ammo that would not go bang . And the same for cheap ammo not going bang . At the range its no big deal other times it might be a real game changer.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #77 on:** October 29, 2012, 06:27:16 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on October 29, 2012, 01:27:21 AM

With regard to ammo the 22 lr is the worst canidate for long term storage . The type bullet and its interface with the brass is not good at preventing air and moisture from getting in. If stored where temp. swings from hot to cold in 24 hr periods it causes the pressure in the round to change and with time will draw in moisture. In a vehicle or pack the process is speeded up. Stockpiling is ok if you can remain in one place but even with a vehicle space is limited and water , food and meds will get the nod over extra ammo in most cases. As for shelf life - yes and no . Some ammo will last in good storage some in less than ideal storage. Some will not. Best check out what you store. I see people buy the off brand FMJ for storage for a SHTF time and wonder why. In such times why FMJ ? In such times with little chance of resupply why cheape off brand ? If you need insurance you need good insurance. I have had way too much Russian ammo that would not go bang ! too much "surplus" ammo that would not go bang . And the same for cheap ammo not going bang . At the range its no big deal other times it might be a real game changer.

My thoughts exactly on the FMJ as a SHTF load. I tend to shoot and reload that stuff with premium components. A 5.56 is a "poodle shooter" round at best. I figure it needs all the help it can receive. I like the Winchester PSP 62(?)gr. stuff, it goes into an ammo can with a fat desiccant bag. I have come to appreciate the portability of the 5.56 and accept the limitations that the round presents. So much more stable and capable than .22rimfire while not exceedingly heavy. A Power Point will act like a solid on rabbits leaving something to eat, and on larger game it has the strength to drive deep while expanding.

guns-o-fun · « **Reply #78 on:** October 29, 2012, 07:24:09 AM »

Amen on the 22lr. I have had it virtually fall apart after 2-3 years even though stored in a sealed plastic container. Granted, it is kind of damp where we are through certain times of the year. I have also had some failures to fire on some other centerfire ammo after a couple of years in storage. A good ammo storage can with a dessicant helps - but you have to stay on top of maintaining the dessicant.

Lee Robinson · « **Reply #79 on:** November 26, 2012, 12:09:58 PM »

Quote from: guns-o-fun on October 26, 2012, 02:51:53 PM

How long after a true SHTF event do you expect to have to survive? How long before you run out of ammo or how long before your ammo deteriorates and becomes unreliable just when you need it most? If you reload - how long before you run out of usable brass, even if you do cast your own bullets, or before your powder supply is corrupted by the elements? Better add an old fashioned long bow or two to your list, and you had better start practicing the task of making your own arrows...

I make longbows (http://keepitsimplearchery.com) and have made hundreds of wooden arrows. Even cheating with an imaginary endless supply of manufactured broadheads...one will be FAR MORE capable with stored ammo. My comments are obviously not good for business since I make bows...but the truth is the truth. If we had to survive with a longbow in a SHTF situation, we wouldn't make it. Living in a land of buffalo and wildlife maybe...but in today's world...no way. It won't happen. Better move to a remote portion of Alaska to avoid other people if you want to have a chance with a traditional bow...and better avoid large predators as well.

Simply put, a bow is outgunned by a gun.

dougk · « **Reply #80 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:27:52 PM »

Does anyone store their ammo in sealed air tight bags?

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #81 on:** November 28, 2012, 11:32:17 AM »

It's interesting to talk about such events, and it's fun to think about the guns and the zombies we'll get to shoot, but the reality is you can stockpile stuff until your fort won't hold anymore and somebody will still kill you to get it. It ain't like you can hide forever. If the gov't falls, you got nothing non-chaoctic to come back to. I'd think I'd rather go out in the beginning than horde stuff now that I won't be able to keep but a few days. Perhaps a couple of months.
Surivalists are short sighted in the extreme. And mostly paranoid. If you have to live in a hole with no running water, no medical help ever again, no good times of any kind, darkness, a polluted worldwide landscape, no police protection, no law enforcement, no intervention of civic personnel for any reason, you fool yourselves that the gun you chose will make a difference. Guns will no longer be for sport, they'll no longer for admiration, they'll no longer be collectibles, they will be just one of the thousand things you will need to last a few days.
Without civil order, without a ruling authority, whatever you have will be for whoever can get it first.
Can we name a time when long-term survival in a world gon berserk worked out? No, I suppose we can say the entire world hasn't gone completely berserk all at the same time yet. So, we can narrow it a bit. If America falls to the point it's each man for himself, it will only descend from there into a more horrible end than if we had been one of the first.
That's not to say I wouldn't fight to the end for myself and family. I'm just saying it's silly to think you will survive more than month no matter how much you plan. This kind of stuff comes up more on gun forums than anywhere else. I'm telling you that guns will be one of your smaller concerns when the day comes. My advice is don't save and horde. It won't help.

dougk · « **Reply #82 on:** November 28, 2012, 03:15:42 PM »

here is the link to an interesting lecture about the fall of the Roman Empire.

Inflation and the Fall of the Roman Empire [size=78%]http://mises.org/daily/3663[/size]

45-70.gov · « **Reply #83 on:** November 29, 2012, 05:56:55 AM »

some will survive.....some one always does
might as well increase the odds

in all probability....i will just enjoy play with my guns for a long long time
and hopefully my grand kids will tell their grand kids about the guy that
handed down the family air-loom.......why they are called a ''handi''..you hand them down

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #84 on:** November 29, 2012, 09:32:16 AM »

I would rather be the guy protecting his stash than the sick hungry guy trying to steal it.

Scibaer · « **Reply #85 on:** November 29, 2012, 09:55:35 AM »

unless you or someone in your party is well trained in medicine, first-aide and triage there is little point of further discussion.
as soon as you or someone in your party gets injured or ill, the jig is up.
if your by yourself, you cant do much when your down.
if you have a division of labor, the person down or dead, just put the load on the others, or worse, put others at risk.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #86 on:** November 29, 2012, 10:03:18 AM »

with out insulin...i won't last long

might extend my time by eating only meat and NO carbohydrates

so if some one wants to to steal from me.........

''leg of looter'' will be on my menu

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #87 on:** November 29, 2012, 10:05:44 AM »

If our fore fathers all the way back to cave men had believed that they should give up none of us would be here. Sure many will die thru. history it has been that way. No wonder our country is going down no one is willing to try and live.

I'm diabetic also but I will be struck down not lay down and give up.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #88 on:** November 29, 2012, 10:16:41 AM »

shootall

when the insulin runs out
lets meet up for some lo-carb led-o-looter

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #89 on:** November 29, 2012, 10:47:28 AM »

Even in a worse case senario, grass roots are eatable.

Having a place in the countryside is best.
Knowing your neighbors.
Prepping as much as you can.
Don't have an all-electric home. Propane can be stored for years. So can firewood if kept dry.
Have non-hybrid seeds for a garden.
Learn to can and dehydrate food.
Have some chickens, rabbits, goats, or even a milk cow.
Plant fast growing fruit trees and grape vines.
Have a root cellar.
Learn to trap and snare.
Use a 22 rifle with a 22" or longer barrel with CB's or subsonic ammo, not need for a silencer.
Have at least one AR, AK, SKS, FAL, or other type high capacity semiauto with ammo and spare mags, spare firing pins, springs and parts or have two of everything.
Then have at least one good bolt gun for longer range work, like a 30-06, 308, 7.62x54, or 8mm Mauser. Scoped if possible. Spare firing pins, especially on foreign military surplus guns or have two of everything.
Have a good shotgun. Pump or semi auto. Spare firing pins, springs, O rings on Remi's.
Have a good handgun as last resort.
Stick with common calibers available everywhere, like 308, 223, 30-06, 7.62x39, 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54, 30-30, 44 mag, 38/357, 45 acp, 9mm, maybe 40s&w, 12 and 20 gauge, and 22LR. All others are luxuries. Have at least one of each type gun for every adult, 22's and even AR's can be used by kids.
Learn eatable and medicinal plants in your area. Even Kudzu is eatable, pine nuts, hickory nuts, even acorns if washed several times to make acorn bread.
Have a water filter, know how to make a homemade water filtration system using sand and charcoal.
Have multiple backups for everything.
Learn skills such as carpentry, welding, plumbing, electrial, gardening, canning, tanning. I have seen plans to make a home made refrigerator using pipe fittings, a fire source, amonia water, and an ice chest. Makes ice too.
Learn how to make a steam engine for electrical generation and a heat/hot water source.
Pay off debt, buy beans, bullets, and bandaids before you buy gold and silver.
Have good hand gardening tools as well as good mechanical tools of all kinds. Even old hand drills and brace bits can be used without power to drill holes.

Knowledge is power. Knowing how to do a lot of things can keep you alive, and keep you needed by whoever is in control.

Carry a bug-out kit, bag, and weapon every where you go if possible. Never know when/if something might happen. EMP, dirty bomb, terroist attack, panic in the stock market resulting in a panic in society, hurricane, tornado, earthquake, anything. Never know, and you can't trust people like you could 75-100 years ago, can't trust the government, must trust yourself, family, and close friends.